• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

Unsuspected Visitor!

E

Em Wright

The Ice Queen
Well my fiance was going through the garage this morning to let the dogs out and found a snake skin! I'm sure not much could be told from a skin, but the snake seems to have been around the size of a juvenile. The skin itself is really ranges from dark brown on the back to light brown on the sides and a bit lighter than that on the belly. Unfortunately we only have about six inches of skin, which is the back half and tail of the snake.

We're located in the Northern Central area of North Carolina and I'm curious to know what sort of wild snakes are down here and what possible could our little visitor have been. That is based mostly on locality.

Thanks in advanced!
 
There are TONS of snakes in the Carolinas. And with the description you give, it could be just about anything...garter, nerodia, copperhead, corn, timber, cottonmouth, dekayi...TONS of snakes that fit your generalized description. Without a pattern to go by...it's nearly impossible to tell.
 
Ooo my... I didn't even consider the fact that it could very well be a 'not so nice' snake.

The skin really doesn't seem to have a pattern on it. I know when my Anery sheds I can faintly see her pattern, but this one appears to be really solid. That likely isn't much of an indication, but it's all I got.

I will have to keep a look out though. Skin is one thing, but a living snake is another. Something like a garter or corn would not bother me, but a copperhead or cottonmouth... could be bad.

Maybe time to call an exterminator or something? I know it's possible that it left, but with the possibilities would it be best to make sure? :shrug:
 
Process of elimination, B.S. Zoology (emphasis in herpetology)

Grab a Field Guide.
Are the scales keeled, weekly keeled, or smooth?
Count the number of rows of dorsal scales most anterior to the anal vent, this would be approximately mid-body.
Then count the dorsal rows of scales IMMEDIATELY anterior to the anal vent.
(You may get several numbers since number of rows of scales change at the neck and near the anal vent. You may have to recount. Count three times and average the counts of scale rows.)
Then check the anal vent to see if it is single or divided.
Then hold the skin very far from your face, under a light. Is there a faint pattern at all, or does the snake truly appear to have had no pattern.

By this route, you will eliminate many species.
Number of dorsal scale rows at the neck, mid-body, and anal vent; and single or divided anal scale are four statistics that a good field guide will at a minimum allow you to put it into a Genus.
An entire snake skin is identical to its' scale morphology, and the above (plus the head scale characteristics, which you don't have) will allow speciation from a whole skin.

P.S. There are, to the best of my memory, no non-patterned poisonous snakes in The States. Only an adult cottonmouth, depending on range variation, could possibly have lost its' pattern altogether. And from your description this seems to be a juvenile something, or a small species.
Mist the skin to soften it, so you can stretch it, without tearing it, when you examine it under the light. Even a Storeria species will have very light and very dark specks/flecks.

P.P.S. Keep looking for the anterior end. If you can find the head, close examination of scale morphology will reveal the genus and species.
 
Last edited:
There's only half the skin so there is no way I could do the counting and the area of the vent is torn. :(

I did the light bit though and did find something... My fiance described it as "striations". It's a little line on each scale that starts at the round 'U' and tapers slightly. These lines do not connect to form full stripes. They are all down the back of the skin but do not appear on the sides or bottom.

Hope that helps, it's really all I got.

Oh and yes, that is a Blue Heeler. :D

EDIT!!

I was just comparing the skin to my 2007 cornsnake's and there are some differences... The first is that there apear to be two conjoining scales on the belly whereas my cornsnake's are solid from one side to the other on the bottom. The scales on the mystery skin are also much larger in comparison to the same spots on my corn's. Even the scales on the back of her shed are smaller than the ones on the myster skin's tail. The skin itself is only about six inches. I'm not sure exactly what keeled is, but I do know there is a distinct difference in the sheds.
 
That sounds like keeling, but I'm not sure I'm understanding your description well. Are the "striations" color or ridges?

Could you get a picture of the skin on a pale background in good, clean light? It would help to see it, if even a little. Vetusvates is right about possibly identifying it through scale counts and other observations. And if we can see it we might be able to help out, even if we can't count the scales...

EDIT--Be careful. What you are describing sounds ominously like large, keeled scales. In your area it could be a Timber or Eastern Diamondback. Either one of these can be incredibly dangerous. Again...I may be misunderstanding your description, but...better to be safe in this instance.
 
A thought...Does the tail come to a tip or point? If the shed is broken and you can't tell, I understand. But a rattler shed would be flat at the end of the tail, and it would appear broken, though it wouldn't be. They retain parts of their tail sheds to make the rattles...

If it does come to a point, it could still be a cottonmouth or copperhead with keeled scales...
 
There is no complete "circumference" to count scale rows...??? The rows are juxtaposed, so unless the skin is split longitudinally, shouldn't be too much trouble counting rows of dorsal scales. Like counting rows around the circumference of an ear of corn, except the rows are juxtaposed. But the number will be odd, as in 17, 19, 21, 23 (on a live snake you can just find the dorsal center of the snake, count down to the ventral scales, then double that number and subtract 1).
And even torn, you might be able to locate a dangling anal vent scale.
Are the striations longitudinal or perpendicular to the longitude of the snake?
Are the scales keeled or smooth?
 
And a picture on a black background, too, with fairly bright light. :D

(I have always thought it was fun to solve the mystery of "mystery skins". Obviously.)
 
tyflier said:
That sounds like keeling, but I'm not sure I'm understanding your description well. Are the "striations" color or ridges?

Could you get a picture of the skin on a pale background in good, clean light? It would help to see it, if even a little. Vetusvates is right about possibly identifying it through scale counts and other observations. And if we can see it we might be able to help out, even if we can't count the scales...

EDIT--Be careful. What you are describing sounds ominously like large, keeled scales. In your area it could be a Timber or Eastern Diamondback. Either one of these can be incredibly dangerous. Again...I may be misunderstanding your description, but...better to be safe in this instance.
Click to expand...
LOL. Yep. If she's describing keeled scales, she may have a (pit) viper in the garage.
 
It's late here now, but I will get pictures tomorrow and post them. Thanks for the help.

And no the scales are not smooth. I'll just get pictures.

I also misunderstood what you wanted, I should be able to do the counting tomorrow and answer all of the questions then. Thanks guys.
 
Hey guys, sorry I didn't get pictures posted I've been kind of busy the last couple days, I do apologize!

We did some research online and are pretty certain the skin we found was from a copperhead. :uhoh:

Not sure what we should do though... perhaps call an exterminator, set 'traps'? I'd hate to kill it, I just don't want it in our house potentially hurting us or our dogs. I'm sure there's a great possibility that it found its way back outside... but also a possibility that it's still in the house and that's a tad freaky. But with so many knooks and crannies in this house finding it could very well be like that ole needle in the hay stack!

:nope:
 
Yikes...I hope he got outside and just slithered off back into the bush where he should be..I would definitely call someone to maybe set some traps though or something..just in case..Copperheads can be very nasty and I think their one of the few snakes that stick their ground rather then run..so if your dog finds it, it could end up bad...but I really am hoping for your family's safety...best of luck to you
 
If it is a copperhead, my blue heeler survived a bite w/ no problems got the poor guy on the side of the nose all he wanted was the golf ball that the snake was sitting on. I found out way later that he would of done ok even if I didn't take him to the vet school and spent way too much money!!!
 
I almost lost my blue heeler earlier this year when she escaped while we were out of state. It was the most horrific week of my life while she was gone and I'm glad she came back. I really don't want to risk losing her again.

But really the dog I'm worried about is our youngest. He thinks everything wants to play with him. :awcrap: :p
 
I don't know what i would do if I lost mine, and unfortantly he is getting up there in age!!! Well we laugh and say Scooby thinks everything is his "friend" including the Copperhead and skunk (same year)!!!
 
Oh my what a silly dog.

My heeler, Eddy, is very much timid of most things. She'll inspect it and if it has a nasty disposition she'll step away and be cautious of it in the future. She's the smart one though. She knows that nerf guns, spray bottles, and anything with liquid in it is potentially bad for her and will run and hide... she also isn't so sure about my snakes either, they're 'weird'. :p Murrey, our pup... seems to like getting shot with the nerf gun. :awcrap: Go figure.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top