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UTH Problems!

ClutchItAllDay

ClutchItAllDay

New member
My uth gets to like 125 degrees! Then i shut it off 20 minutes later, and it goes down to my room temp 72 degrees! Help I don't know how to keep it at a nice temp. Every half hour should I turn it off and on?
 
You definitely don't want to be a human thermostat :)
Where are you taking your reading of 125 degrees ?
In your other thread you asked about having a UTH on the side glass, is this the one your talking about ?
 
Sorry, just to be clear, The UTH is attached to the glass underneath the tank and ALSO the probe from the thermometer is underneath the tank ?
 
ok, thanks.
If it's directly above the UTH on the glass inside the tank then it should be reading 120-125 degrees.
You should be measuring the temp above the substrate ( aspen ) inside the hide where the snake will lay. Adjust the depth of the substrate till you get around 84 degrees. The probe should be located and left inside the hide.
If for some reason you still cant get the air temp inside the hide down to 85ish then you will need a thermostat or dimmer to decrease the UTH temp.

:)
 
Do you have a thermostat, or a thermometer?
It sounds to me like you don't have a thermostat. The thermostat is what regulates the temperature. The temperature on the glass should be no higher than about 88 degrees.
 
Oh no! I lost my shiny! Dang.

Daddio- the temperature needs to be measured under the substrate, directly above the glass. That is where the thermostat probe also needs to be set to be around 85 degrees. Snakes can and will burrow. They don't have the ability to realize that an action they are doing is causing pain to themselves. So if they reach an area that is too hot, they quite possibly will cook to death. The temperature on top of the substrate has nothing to do with anything. the temperature under the substrate is what is important.
 
AliCat37 said:
Oh no! I lost my shiny! Dang.

Daddio- the temperature needs to be measured under the substrate, directly above the glass. That is where the thermostat probe also needs to be set to be around 85 degrees. Snakes can and will burrow. They don't have the ability to realize that an action they are doing is causing pain to themselves. So if they reach an area that is too hot, they quite possibly will cook to death. The temperature on top of the substrate has nothing to do with anything. the temperature under the substrate is what is important.
Click to expand...

Thank you and I respect your experience.
Here's what I just answered in the other thread to a similar rebuttal :)

I politely disagree.
Corn snakes do not tend to borrow. None of mine do. The corn snake won't borrow to the glass and lay on it long enough to burn itself especially if the hot hide air temp ABOVE the substrate is correct. (A ball python will)
If that's your set up and your corn snakes are borrowing it is because they need to get to the glass to get enough heat.
The ambient temp in the hide needs to be 78-85 degrees for proper digestion.
If you use a thermostat and adjust the glass temp to 80 - 85 then you will need to have NO substrate in the hide.
75 to 80 is enough for digestion but NOT optimum and the snake could possibly have occasional regurges.
As keepers, we want it right not just close for the health of the animal.
Either way the most important temperature is the snakes body and since you cant stick a thermometer in its mouth then the next best thing is to measure the ambient temp of the place it will spend most of its life and that's the hot side hides inside ambient temp.
I have kept and keep 100's of snakes.
.......................................................................
Also from Don at SMR's care sheet

Even if regulating devices like thermostats are not used, if the cage gets too warm, the snake can retreat to the cool end of the cage or in the water bowl, to reduce its body temperature. Insulating substrate materials like aspen bedding form a substratum that works as a buffer between the heater under the bottom glass and your snake. The temperature of the glass atop the UT heater can be as high as 120° F (48°c), but since corn snake virtually NEVER lie upon or near such hot surfaces, damage to your snake should not be a concern. Some snakes (i.e. Ball Pythons) eagerly burrow beneath the substrate and have been known to die from burns received from such hot surfaces. In the 35+ years I've been keeping corns - and having kept at least 40,000 of them - not one snake was ever burned from UT heating devices.
ALSO from SMR care sheet
By adjusting the depth of the cage substrate, it is easy to achieve proper appetite and digesting temperatures for your corn snake without the aid of electronic controllers. If the warm-side hide is over 85°F (26.7°c) inside, increase the substrate depth so the snake is farther from the heat source. Conversely, if the inside of the warm-side hide is in the low 80sF (26.7°c - 29°c) or below, decrease the substrate depth to move your snake's primary hide closer to the heat source that is under the cage. In rare instances, UT and OT heaters are jointly advised in very large enclosures, but in positioning and adjusting devices and hides, it is essential to remember that the appetite and digestion TEMPERATURE GOAL of 80°F - 85°F (26.7°c - 29.4°c) is only achieved if your snake wants to access that ideal temperature zone. In other words, no matter how you achieve it, your goal is to offer your snake a hiding place where its body temperature will be 80°F - 85°F (26.7°c - 29.4°c). OT heating is not only more expensive than UT heating, but considerably more dangerous. The simplest way to evaluate the body temperature of your snake is by placing a properly-working thermometer inside the hide on the warm side of the cage. Since your snake most efficiently digests when it is in the mid 80°sF (29°c - 30°c), and since its instinct is to hide during the daytime hours, it makes no sense to place a thermometer anywhere in the cage other than INSIDE THE HIDE on the warm end of the cage. It can be permanently affixed to the ceiling in the hide, or just laying inside the hide from time to time, to periodically evaluate proper appetite and digestion-facilitating conditions.

Now I know I am fairly knew to this forum and am not here to debunk anybody's advice and hopefully be of help. I do have over 40 years experience with reptiles and aquatics from owning a pet store to a private collection at one point in the 100's :)
 
I'm with daddio on this one. I've always considered the air temp (usually in hide) at a "top of the substrate" level to be the most important. That should be, and almost always is, where corns spend most of their time (above the substrate that is, not necessarily in the hide). Baby corns tend to burrow a little bit, but usually only if inadequate hiding and heating options are available elsewhere. And once they're adults, you'll really only see them burrow if that's the only place they can get proper heat.
 
I would never say Don is _wrong_, but I would say there are several schools of thought regarding heating methods. I will never come close to the numbers Don has cared for, but I respectfully like my method better, and feel more comfortable with it.

I have UTHs (or racks) on thermostats and keep the max temp on the UTH under the substrate to 85, maybe 86-76 for the hatchling racks, maybe 78-82 for adults, depending on sex.

My snakes all burrow, or retreat into hides, except in the evening when they are out hunting. But they aren't necessarily seeking heat- they burrow throughout the temperature zones. That's the snakes' nature, or else my yard would be covered with them!

A nice cheap thermostat that many people here use is the Hydrofarm.
 
All I will say is that each and every one of my corns and kings burrow.
When I first got into snakes, I had never heard of a thermostat. My cornsnake did get burned. Not severely, but he did. May as well have had a heat rock in the cage. In my opinion, having the heat mat not regulated is a huge fire risk as well. I was going through heat pads once a month because they kept burning out from getting so hot. I would post pictures of the ones that literally burned, but I threw them out several years ago. The majority of my snakes don't have any additional heat on them at all, as the whole room is heated.

I am glad your experiences are different, but I feel they are also very dangerous.
 
I do use back heat on my racks so that's probably the reason why my snakes don't borrow and yours do. Except for the hogs and sand boas of course.
The collector, breeder level has different requirements than the hobbyist/pet level for sure. If I recall correctly from what I've seen in your pics posted that you do have quite a system for heating and monitoring. Very impressive.
I use dimmers on all my racks (yeah I've heard it already lol) and this is why.
The cheap thermostats that are being recommended (I have) are like the thermostat to your furnace. They turn on at a preset low temp variance and turn off at whatever high temp is set so they are fluctuating the heat in the hot spot continually.
The good thermostats like the herpstats are highly advanced dimmers. they control the wattage output at a steady pace based on the probes readings keeping a steady temp at the hot spot.
Either thermostat is needed in hot climates where the heat to the rack or Viv needs to be turned off numerious times a year.
Dimmers control the wattage and with the use of a thermometer you can set the hot spot temp and it stays steady. A poor mans manual Herpstat. This works well in the cold climates and in rooms that have very little change in temps.
I use all dimmers with temp gauges because my reptile room very rarely changes temp even in the summer. last year I had to turn my dimmers off once due to a heat wave.
I know you know this LOL but I thought I'd say it for others reading this post

I have studied (years ago) extensively on snakes in the wild but unlike you, my yard will never be overrun with snakes for any reason lol. I give the corn snake credit for being smarter than the average snake and to know when to move off an object that becomes uncomfortably hot unlike a BP that will lay there and burn itself.
As you said, different schools of thought. Different environments dictate different experiences.
As I said in the other post, I actually do recommend thermostats for most people but as posted, one of the biggest names in corn snakes doesn't with the proper setup.
I do highly respect everything you say !! :)
 
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I have to side with putting the thermometer under the substrate, on the glass. This is the first time ever hearing to put it on top of the substrate.

Both my kids burrow, but they burrow all over the viv, not just near the UTH. On colder days here (like, below 60 degrees - ducking from the snowballs being thrown from the north!!!) they like the hides on the warm sides, but are usually on top of the substrate, not under, and I keep the UTH at 85.

I wasn't aware this was a debatable topic, but I guess nothing is straight across the board. If you had the thermometer on top and the temp on the glass above the UTH was at 120, wouldn't you chance burning the snake? I know they are smarter than the average bear, but still, why chance it when you have a cool side they can go to if they don't like the 85 degrees?
 
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