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What would I get if I crossed......

Virago

Virago

New member
Hi Everyone,

On Friday I'm going to pick up a mate for my Houdini. Houdini's mother was Black Albino and his father was Red Corn. He looks very much like a normal but his red is very deep, he also has alot of yellow coming from the sides of his head and down his neck. (there seems to be more yellow the older he gets). Anyways I'm going to pick up a companion thats about 4-6 mths old. I know I can't breed until about 300 grams. So probably about 2-3 yrs. My choices for companions are Albino corn(not black), Okeetee, normal or HYPO. I would like your opinions on what I should get.

I don't know if Houdini's M/F he will get probed when I get to the breeder.
 
By "red corn" (father), do you mean normal or amelanistic (aka red albino)? And in your choices as a mate, is the albino a red albino (amelanistic) or white (snow)?

If the father was a normal, the Okeetee, normal and hypo choices would all produce normal looking babies. Pairing with the albino, if an amel, would also produce all normal babies, but if a snow, you would get 50% normal and 50% anerythristic babies.

If the father was an amel, again you would get all normal babies from all but the albino mate. If the albino is an amel, you would get normal and amel babies, and if it's a snow, you would get 25% each normal, amel, anery and snow.

In either case, your choice for the most variety in F1 offspring would be the albino mate.
 
Virago said:
Hi Everyone,

On Friday I'm going to pick up a mate for my Houdini. Houdini's mother was Black Albino and his father was Red Corn. He looks very much like a normal but his red is very deep, he also has alot of yellow coming from the sides of his head and down his neck. (there seems to be more yellow the older he gets). Anyways I'm going to pick up a companion thats about 4-6 mths old. I know I can't breed until about 300 grams. So probably about 2-3 yrs. My choices for companions are Albino corn(not black), Okeetee, normal or HYPO. I would like your opinions on what I should get.

I don't know if Houdini's M/F he will get probed when I get to the breeder.
Click to expand...

Okay, so Houdini is what I'm going to guess is a Normal het Anerythristic. Some more info on Houdini would be great. Does he have black on him? If not, then as Susan said, he would be an Amel, het Anery. To me it sounds like you're trying to say that his father was a normal. Regardless, we'll go through both scenarios.

Let's assume Houdini is Normal het Anery. Breeding Houdini to a pure Okeetee or Normal corn is going to give you nothing but Normal corns, 50% het for anery.

If you breed Houdini to an Amel (red albino) then you'll again get normal babies, 50% het for Amel, the other 50% het for Snow.

If you were to breed Houdini to a Snow corn (which is Amel x Anery) you'd get 50% Anery het for Amel, the rest would be normal het for snow.

If you decided to get Houdini a lovely Hypomelanistic companion, the resulting breeding would be all normals, 50% het for Ghost and 50% het for Hypo.

It really depends on what you want for possible babies in the future. No matter what you get, the resulting F1 bred babies arent going to be anything fancy. You're limited to basically Anery or normal babies, if Houdini is normal and his father was in fact a normal corn.

However, if Houdini's father was in fact an Amel corn, we have a different story. It doesnt seem like you're saying that, but we'll do a quick run down.

If his father was Amel, and mother was Anery, Houdini would be normal, but het for Anery & Amel, also known as Snow.

If that's the case, Houdini bred to an Amel is going to give you {25% Amel, het for Anery; 25% normal, het for snow; 25% amel; and 25% normal, het for Amel}

If Houdini was bred to an Anery, it would be the reverse. Just swap Anery in for Amel, and vice versa.

Bred to a hypo, you'd get another 25% crazy configuration. 25% het for snow, hypo; 25% het for ghost; 25% het for Amel and hypo; 25% het for Hypo. In either case, you'd get a normal corn, just het for something or another.

Whew. Going back up, I think you were trying to say that Houdini's father was in fact normal, since many many people refer to normal corns as red rat snakes.

If it was me picking out a potential breeding mate and I had a normal het for anery, I'd get two potential breeding mates
:crazy02: Seriously though, it depends. If you want immediate non-normal babies, get an Anery. If you want a project where you have to wait a few years for something, I'd get a hpyo and breed back one of those babies to Houdini and get some Ghosts---I love them.

Hope that all helps.
 
If Houdini's father was an Anery (black) and Amel (red) then he is a Normal het for Anery & Amel, or better put as het Snow. So, if he/she is bred to an Anery you would get Anery & Normal offspring. If the anery is het for amel than you would get Normal, Anery, Amel & Snow.
If you breed to an Amel (red) than you would get Amel & Normal and if the Amel is het Anery than you would get the same results as the Anery het Amel one.
If you breed to a snow you would get basically the same results as above only different percentages of each.
If you breed to a hypo than you would get al Normals het hypo with some het for (individually for) amel, anery or snow. Unless of course your Normal is het hypo in which case you would get some hypo, but that is an ONLY IF.
If you breed to an Okeetee than you would get all Normals some with the Okeetee look, some het for amel, some for anery, some for snow, some het for nothing. Again IF the Okeetee is het for Amel or Anery, that will change the outcome.

Good luck and have fun deciding what to get. My suggestion is.....get what you find appealing to look at and enjoy and then have fun with the results when the breeding happens.
 
Thanks guys,

I believe Houdini's father was a normal. Houdini has black around his saddles. I don't know if its possible with my choices but eventually I would like to make some blizzards,bloodreds and butter. But this could be a project. I still don't get the whole het thing. If he's het for snow does that mean his ofspring will be snow? How do you know wich 25% is What?
 
Hmmm..... in your first post you said the father was a Black Albino, which would be an anery. Was the father black and grey (some have yellow down the chin and neck and some don't) or was he red saddled (like yours) with black outlines and an orange or yellow/orange body?

If he was a normal, than your snake is only a Normal het for Amel.

Het in this situation is referring to the recessive genes that the snake is carrying. These are genes that do NOT show in the looks of the snake but that the snake has in its gene pool that can be passed down to its offspring.

The answer to your being able to get butter, blizzards or bloodreds out of the choices of mates that you are going to look at are zero. You would have to get one of the above to breed to yours, then breed the babies back together in order to produce them. It is possible to get a mate that is het for one of the above and do this but the odds of producing what you want in the F2 is slim because you would not know which of the original (F1) offspring would be carrying the het traits of the butter, blizzard, or bloodred (whatever you were using).

If you want to better understand the genetics side of this, you can go to this site and do some reading, it is good and helpful.....http://www.serpwidgets.com/Apps/apps.html
just click on morphs or genetics and have a read. Chuck also has a book out that explains genetics and you can get that from him. There should be something about the book on that site.

Good luck.
 
Here are some pictures to help you with what you have. Here are an Anery baby and an Anery adult (this anery is a light one, many have much darker grey saddles but this is the only one I have), a Normal yearling, an Okeetee baby, & an Amel semi adult.

So, what would you say the parents were and what is yours? Remember these are only one version of each of these, all morpsh vary in color/looks.
 

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Houdini is definitely..

a normal.(like your third pic) In my first post I said his mother was black alnand his father was rec corn(normal). So there is no way to get blizzard,bloodred or butter somewhere down the line? :cry:
 
Sorry, I got them swapped around in the sex department. I am so used to writing the father first, sorry about that one. But when you said red corn you meant a Normal? OK. Usually when people say red corn they are referring to the Amel or red albino.

So then all I said up there about what you would get in the breedings does not stand. If the father was a normal and the mother an anery, then yours is a Normal het Anery and you will not have or get snows or amels in the breedings to any of the choices you named. And, no, I'm afraid there will be absolutely no way to produce the other three veriety you want with the options you listed as mates, sorry about that. The only option you have there is to purchase one of what you want.
 
The only way you can make an Anery (Black Albino) is if the Amel (non black Albino), Okeetee, normal or hypo that you get is het for anery or snow. If it is not, than no, you won't be able to make any. Both parents HAVE to be carrying the gene of the morph you want to produce, whether it be in Dominate or Recessive form.
 
Ok So If I Have This Right..

If I breed houdini with any one of his offspring(het for Anery) then I could get Black albino? Because both parents then would be het for Anery?

Scenario 1-
If I bred houdini to a HYPO then the offspring would be Normal corn het ghost,hypo and anery.

Then breed the offspring back to houdini I should get normals, ghosts,hypos and Anery's.

Scenario 2-
If I bred Houdini to a Red Albino then the offspring would be normal corn het Amel,Snow and anery.

Then breed 2 of the offspring together I should get normals,amels, snows and anery's?

Does this make sense???? :shrugs:
 
Not quite

As Houdini is a normal het anery, half it's offspring will get the allele (sp?) for anery. Only if it was a anery would all the babies be het for....then you can't tell which ones are het for anery just by looking at them.
If you crossed it to an anery, 50% would be anery and 50% would be normal het anery....

A really good starting point would also be to find out what sex Houdini is. Then you can find out what sex partner you need to buy for it.
Adèle
 
As I said, not quite

A normal het anery bred with a hypomelanistic will give you All normal looking babies. All of them will be het for hypomel and 50% will be het hypomel and anery (when you combine anery and hypomel you get ghost).
As I said, you will not know which ones are het for anery as well as hypomel, so the best you could label them (for sale) is normal het hypomel, 50% het anery.
 
gardenmum said:
Both parents HAVE to be carrying the gene of the morph you want to produce, whether it be in Dominate or Recessive form.
Click to expand...


So if Houdini is het anery and his offspring is het anery and they are bred together I should receive som anery?
 
...but you won't know which of the babies to keep to breed back to their father....and it'll take you 2 years at least to get a female to size, so if you're doing the home herping method to save money...you should be aware that it'll take you 4-6 years to produce an anery...wouldn't you rather just buy one?? Plus then you have inbred babies that are more prone to illness and spinal kinks, etc...just a thought
 
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