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What's YOUR opinion?

pgr8dnlvr

An obsolete oldie...
Hello all, just thought I'd bring up some topics for discussion. In the short time that I have been more involved in the "cornsnake" industry, some comments I sometimes frequently hear really start to make me think. I just wanted to put my opinions on the matter out and see what some others think :)

1. It is so much easier to buy and sell someone elses stock than it is to breed your own and sell it.

2. I can't sell my snakes for X amount of dollars, because yours are so much less!

3. There are only so many people in the market for high end corns each year so we should be careful not to "overproduce" them.


Ok, so I know some of you don't want it, but here are my opinions -



1. It is so much easier to buy and sell someone elses stock than it is to breed your own and sell it.
I don't think it's much easier to sell someone elses stock than it is to breed your own. I have absolutely done both now, and there are positives and negatives to both, but there aren't such glaring differences as some would have you believe.

When I import a batch of babies in, I would usually get a decent amount at once. When I say "decent" we are talking about 60 - 80 babies. So when I get them in I have to set each up into their individual containers the same as I would when I breed my own. Each container needs a proper label set up with the morph, sex, and if they shed when on the road, they need hides cut out, water, etc.

So then after the set up is done two days later I feed them all. Then the same as if I bred them they all have to be marked as to what they ate, checked that they did eat etc. This has to be done at LEAST four times before the animals can be marked for sale. Then once it's time to sell them, most need to have individual pictures taken, and a certain amount of advertising done. A price must be decided upon. To me a fair public markup is either 2 times or slightly above that. Thus if I land a butter corn for $32 I would likely mark it around $70. So not a lot of profit considering I might not sell that snake before it's eaten a dozen or even more times.

Now for when I breed my own. I have previously done the math and have posted it in my personal threads and once I get the babies set up in their individual containers and feed, again the MINIMUM of four times frozen thawed, each baby no matter what the morph would have a landed cost of about $9.50 or so Canadian. So with these babies a number of which see with the average price of $60 I am making SIX TIMES the amount of money!

So for work, here is where the difference is. Yes in my cost of goods figuring I figure out a labour value of about $8.00 per hour and I counted the average amount of time spent on the adults for the year. The added labour is in the fact that you have to deal with 20-25 babies of the same morph when if I imported I would have only gotten in about 6 of each morph at a time tops. So it is a lot more work to care for those babies which won't be sold until a much later time, but I don't know if it is SIX times the amount of work.

So in short, I don't know how valid I feel statement number one is...


2. I can't sell my snakes for X amount of dollars, because yours are so much less!
Ok, this is another comment I don't necessarily agree with. Yes it can be more difficult for you to sell your animal for double what I may want to charge, but there is another method of thought.

There are people evident even on this site who have vastly different prices on their animals yet they can still manage to sell out. Look at Poppycorns and her pink snows. She was selling them for two or three times what anyone else might have sold the same morph, but what are her secrets?

Marketing is one. If you want to sell your animals for a lot more, you need to market the animals and let people know why your animals are so much better! Take AMAZING pictures of them that highlight the quality, participate in forums with positive supportive comments wherever possible, strive to have THE BEST customer service possible, keep METICULOUS records on your animals and make sure to post GORGEOUS pictures of the parents of your animals. Perhaps register all your animals with ACR. Most of all, I think you need to really feel and know the VALUE of your animals! If you can pass along your own excitement about your animals, other people will see the value! No you may not sell as many animals as the guy charging half, but if you are happier selling less but with a much better air of quality then GOOD FOR YOU!! :) Look at name brand clothes, the names sometimes charge 4 x what another almost identical piece of clothing might cost even made by the same manufacturer. It's that TAG that people want!

Of course, marketing is only one aspect. If you want to sell your animals for a lot more than someone else is then you had better make EVERY effort possible to attain the best breeding stock you can. You want to truly have that above par animal which blows peoples socks off when they see it on the table in front of them!

3. There are only so many people in the market for high end corns each year so we should be careful not to "overproduce" them.
Ok this is another one that just doesn't make absolute sense to me. Yeah, I have a marketing background and have access to some very cool post secondary marketing books from my sister in law who heads a marketing department for a huge company here in B.C., but this shouldn't be that hard for people to grasp. Markets are not set in stone. Some of the most successful people in this world have understood just that. If you have something to sell, you need to create a need in someone else for them to have what you are selling! You CREATE your own market! It's not EASY to do, yes that I know, but it's also something that isn't anywhere near impossible to do! I think there are some simple things to start building a market that don't even take much time.

When advertising in local newspapers or online markets Instead of saying "Pied sided bloodred for sale - $1000 obo." why not beef things up!?!

The Perfect Pet!

Would you like a pet that never barks all night long, doesn't scratch your furniture, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg in yearly vet bills?! How would you like to go away on weekends and not have to have a petsitter?! Cornsnakes only get about 4 feet long and as thick as a toonie, are hypo-allergenic, and only need feeding once a week! They also come in over 300 different colours and patterns to choose from, and are fun and easy to breed!

I have one of the newest colour morphs out there that will knock your socks off! Blazing red on stark white! Living art in your home!

$1000 each!

This ad would hopefully get your foot in the door and you might have some curious people give you a call for more information. Then you can concentrate on education and yes, you can even put in the cautions and downsides as well, but at least you have a start! Get people interested! If you believe strongly in what you have and you truly love it yourself, that interest will spread!

Human nature can be quite predictable at times, even from day one - Little Timmy playing in the sandbox, surrounded in toys, disinterested fiddling with one of the toys. Joey sits down next to him and picks up a stick, starts building a castle making the stick a spire, starts stirring the sand like a witches cauldron with the magic wand all of the sudden Timmy will stop at nothing he ONLY wants that stick! Simple human nature...

Anyway, I know there are many different views and spins people can take on these comments, and I just wanted to point out some of the thoughts I have had. I can see and respect other angles as well and just thought I'd ask what YOU guys think!

Rebecca
 
Rebecca,
Very good post. I agree, alot of this is Marketing and I really like the last part. I feel that to many people do not sell themselves or their stock the right way.
 
I do feel breeding corns is much harder and more rewarding, you put all the work into pairing them up and incubating, you put your females at risk to lay the eggs, there is a lot that goes on before those eggs ever hatch. Then you have to try all these ways to get them to eat, you most likely end up culling some where if you buy from someone else they are most likely eating already unless you bought out of eggers.
As for the marketing - With the morph I work on and have the breeding stock, I run into a lot of "It's just a ghost." When there are so many other newer more expensive things, it is a morph that many do not value and will sell cheap. I have read a lot of "oh that's just a ghost" comments lately (specially when someone purports to have something else, as a way of ribbing the person) and it gets me a bit. We all have our favorite but you should never be putting down someone else's to build yourself up. I have no problem with people tooting their own horn and trying to make a name for themselves, but I really value truth in advertising. Like how many ads I see with people saying "These are the BEST NICEST corns available" and then you look at the pic and it's run of the mill. Or you look at an ad for Okeetees and Sunglows and they are poor quality Okees with thin borders, or have too much white to count as sunglows. A well written ad by someone with run of the mill corns has suckered many a newby into buying what they thought was something special. So yes, sell yourself, but don't stretch the truth to do so. Marketing makes your stock sound better using words, but if you have quality it kinda should speak for itself. BTW that was not directed at any particular person.
 
I can't give a cold away..

1. It is so much easier to buy and sell someone elses stock than it is to breed your own and sell it.

Maybe so.. But I kind of like to see the personal rewards of our time and effort.. Quality before qauntity..

2. I can't sell my snakes for X amount of dollars, because yours are so much less!

I don't really care what other people sell their animals for.. Again, quality before quanity.. I ask my own price.. If I can't it, I'll take the loss on the chin and wholesale them regardless the morph..



3. There are only so many people in the market for high end corns each year so we should be careful not to "overproduce" them.

That is smart marketing.. Supply and demand.. OPEC does really well with this plan.. Flood the market and soon it dries up to nothing but powdery dust..

When advertising in local newspapers or online markets Instead of saying "Pied sided bloodred for sale - $1000 obo." why not beef things up!?!

Straight forward truthfullness.. Might be my sales are lacking because I don't kiss enough ass or make up some colourfull sales pitch. *shrugs*
 
> We all have our favorite but you should never be putting down someone else's to build yourself up.

Let me play Devil's Advocate and look at it from the opposite side. (1) We shouldn't expect everyone to appreciate our favorite morphs as much as we do. Is it an insult when I tell people that I don't like Reverse Okeetee Cornsnakes? Of course not - I just don't find them visually attractive. (2) Is it an insult if someone tells me that my Terrazzos are just a striped corn? Of course not - I just shrug it off since they obviously don't understand the genetics AND can't see the differences that I feel make them special. All these loaded words....it's just opinions. I don't think it is an insult when someone says "it's just a ghost corn" if that is their honest belief. For example, I have trouble accepting silverqueens as anything more than "just a light ghost corn." That's not an insult - it's just my opinion.

I don't think those statements are generally meant to be an insult...its just an answer to a (perhaps unspoken) question:
Q: Is this the next biggest new deal ever?
A: Nope, it's just a ghost.
That doesn't mean a ghost isn't beautiful or high quality - it just means it is not a NEW thing. Ghosts aren't new. I believe the bigger problem is that people get their feelings hurt over nothing. We are so used to people not saying, "No, I don't think your kid is cute. Actually, he's kind of ugly" because politeness in our society has come to mean, in most cases, LIES that we are offended when someone doesn't at least pretend to hold the same opinion about what is pretty as we do.

> Or you look at an ad for Okeetees and Sunglows and they are poor quality Okees with thin borders, or have too much white to count as sunglows

Still playing here, but how thick of a border do you need before it is called an Okeetee? I've had WC ones with almost no borders. They were more deserving of the name than generics with thicker borders IMO. Take the name "Abbott's." Abbott himself produces a lit of thin bordered babies. Would it be a lie to call those Abbott's...or even Okeetees? See my point? What is OK to call an Abbott's and what is not? (Just by way of example.)

> Maybe so.. But I kind of like to see the personal rewards of our time and effort.. Quality before qauntity..

You can by quality animals for wholesale. Your excellent statement saying you'd wholesale the morph before crashing a market is proof that someone is getting quality to wholesale, right? Heck, I know I've sent some amazing animals to wholesalers and pet stores in the past.

> That is smart marketing.. Supply and demand.. OPEC does really well with this plan.. Flood the market and soon it dries up to nothing but powdery dust..

I agree with that in theory, but I don't believe it applies in this case. OPEC only has a limited number of competitors (whom they tend to control, anyway). If OPEC sells me oil, I can't BREED that oil and make more for "free." I don't become a competitor with OPEC no matter how much oil I buy from them. The analogy just isn't there. Look at the parakeet trade for an example of what the snake market will likely be like in 10 or 20 years.

Supply and demand is the answer....but we are dealing with a case where our own customers are our worst enemies. You have to create more demand (i.e., advertising or lowering the price) or supply something others don't (warranty, better CS, etc.). In other words, this industry is NOT the same as a "dry goods" one.

Want to help breeders and make this PROFITABLE again? The answer is SIMPLE, but nobody really likes it. Every state should require a license to operate a breeding business. No license = no sale or trade on offspring. Make it $500. Heck, a real breeder wouldn't blink an eye. Make the fine for selling a snake without a license HIGH, and enforce those laws. Require NO LICENSE to have them and keep them. You can even give away as a bona fide gift babies without a license. People with a half dozen snakes would generally NOT buy the license. People with a vested interest in it would pay the money happily since it would reduce SUPPLY out there. This is the theory/justification for the higher priced commercial licenses in all wildlife feels (commercial fishing licenses, etc. - it is to limit the players so those that do it can make an actual living off of it). In terms of the economy, a few players making a decent income is better for our society than a bunch making a few dollars only each.

Heck, I would even say that small breeders could even, under my proposed system, sell to licensed breeders without a permit....but to NOBODY ELSE. This would mean the small people could wholesale their stock to a "real" business. This system will NEVER happen, but it WOULD help....without stopping ANYONE that wanted the license from buying it and being a seller. Currently, many states have license requirements, at least for natives, but only larger breeders buy them. Small guys ignore it due to a lack of enforcement. This means that big guys are the ones HURT in this scenario. It is backwards of the way it should be.

> because I don't kiss enough ass

If there is a club, I'll run for president!
KJ
 
Straight forward truthfullness.. Might be my sales are lacking because I don't kiss enough ass or make up some colourfull sales pitch. *shrugs*

Timmah,
You need to sell your corn snakes like a beer commercial. Buy one of your snakes and Bikini Clad hot chicks will swarm around you. ;)
 
Some good points made by Tim and KJ also.
I have no problem with people who honestly don't like a morph. I personally do not see the beauty of bloodreds and often will not even look at a photo gallery thread if it had bloodred in the title. They are just kind of blah to me for some reason. I didn't mean to make it sound like I have my panties in a bunch over people who don't like ghosts, maybe my wording left something to be desired there.
I think however there is a difference between making a general statement that you don't particularly think a morph someone else has is special, and trying to market your bloodreds by saying something negative about the ones produced by others. I see many ads where it seems to me there is the subtle implication that if you don't buy the corns from THIS line you will be getting inferior animals. That is a turnoff to me, a person with a big ego will think their snakes are better than anybody else's and market this way but I don't see the point of it myself. Ads like "You will not find a Dorfbunkle Corn this nice from ANY OTHER breeder out there at this price" are just a turn off to me. It is my personal preference, again words do not make the snake anything other than what it already is.
As for Okeetees, I kind of do believe the expected standard is that they have thick borders. I have just seen many Okees for sale with a nicely worded ad and when I look at them they do not meet MY standard - and this is a standard I know others hold as well, judging from how many people I have seen post pics of Okeetees and be told the borders are really not thick enough to ne considered okeetee so it's just a nice normal. If it comes from Abbott lines I would expect some leeway (no pun intended) because they are stll from known good bloodlines, but at the same time I have yet to see anyone post a photo of an Abbott's that was not up to the "standard" either.
I would pay 500 if I had to to keep on with this hobby but I do not see it stopping the small breeders who sell on craigslists and to small local petstores. Who is gonna be the snake police that goes from show to show making sure every seller had paid to be able to market their stuff? Is the snake police also gonna be monitoring forums with for sale sections? As for "real breeders" and "small breeders" (there seems to be a distinction there) to me a small breeder is just as "real" as one who does it full time as a business. Just as capable of producing nice snakes, just as passionate about the hobby, main difference in some cases is not as many snakes. Not sure penalizing them is the solution. :shrugs:
 
Want to help breeders and make this PROFITABLE again? The answer is SIMPLE, but nobody really likes it. Every state should require a license to operate a breeding business. No license = no sale or trade on offspring. Make it $500. Heck, a real breeder wouldn't blink an eye. Make the fine for selling a snake without a license HIGH, and enforce those laws. Require NO LICENSE to have them and keep them. You can even give away as a bona fide gift babies without a license. People with a half dozen snakes would generally NOT buy the license. People with a vested interest in it would pay the money happily since it would reduce SUPPLY out there. This is the theory/justification for the higher priced commercial licenses in all wildlife feels (commercial fishing licenses, etc. - it is to limit the players so those that do it can make an actual living off of it). In terms of the economy, a few players making a decent income is better for our society than a bunch making a few dollars only each.

Heck, I would even say that small breeders could even, under my proposed system, sell to licensed breeders without a permit....but to NOBODY ELSE. This would mean the small people could wholesale their stock to a "real" business. This system will NEVER happen, but it WOULD help....without stopping ANYONE that wanted the license from buying it and being a seller. Currently, many states have license requirements, at least for natives, but only larger breeders buy them. Small guys ignore it due to a lack of enforcement. This means that big guys are the ones HURT in this scenario. It is backwards of the way it should be.
KJ

Sure just what we need more government & give up some more of your rights.;) I have had a Pennsylvania Dealer/ Haulers license for many years. By having the license the PA Fish & Game has the authority to search my home for absolutely no reason at all, at anytime they want. Even though I don't keep any indigenous species.:devil01: Is that what we really need?:shrugs:
I don't think so! Competition is what makes our country special. We don't need protectionism.
 
Well

I think this is all way to general to coment on. There are thousands of factors that arent brought up here. I will say that if you produce nice enough corns they will sell themselves! As far as breeding your own compared to selling someone elses is a WHOLE nother story.
 
You know, some of you make good sense with your theories. One problem though. The US is a free capitalism and by having a free capitalistic society, each of us are guaranteed the right to commerce without government interference, with the exception to publicly traded corporations.

The alternative is Socialism where our government, not us, decides what we do, how we do it and how much we make from what we do! By licensing what we do and allowing the government in, we are handing our "businesses" over to the government for their regulation and control.

Is that what we want? Is that what we need?

I'm sorry, I would rather have the ability to shop around and find quality, reasonably priced animals.


Wayne
 
KJ mentioned..

Want to help breeders and make this PROFITABLE again? The answer is SIMPLE, but nobody really likes it. Every state should require a license to operate a breeding business. No license = no sale or trade on offspring. Make it $500. Heck, a real breeder wouldn't blink an eye. Make the fine for selling a snake without a license HIGH, and enforce those laws. Require NO LICENSE to have them and keep them. You can even give away as a bona fide gift babies without a license. People with a half dozen snakes would generally NOT buy the license. People with a vested interest in it would pay the money happily since it would reduce SUPPLY out there. This is the theory/justification for the higher priced commercial licenses in all wildlife feels (commercial fishing licenses, etc. - it is to limit the players so those that do it can make an actual living off of it). In terms of the economy, a few players making a decent income is better for our society than a bunch making a few dollars only each.


Heres DA in response..


Your right, people would not like it.. The biggest problem I think that would result out this is that it opens the door to let the Government wander in and snoop through the personals of the citizens.. Regardless whether your law abiding or not, that it self becomes an open invitation for authorities come on over.. I would look at this as something not very different from Gun Registration.. Even though it would be a way for different people to make the market theirs while making sure no one else can enjoy the possible prospects..

Regards.. Tim of T and J
 
You know, some of you make good sense with your theories. One problem though. The US is a free capitalism and by having a free capitalistic society, each of us are guaranteed the right to commerce without government interference, with the exception to publicly traded corporations.

That's a great myth, but it is a myth nonetheless. In a pure capitalistic society, the end result is ALWAYS a monopoly. This, in most cases, is not beneficial to a free people nor the average consumer. Saying we are a pure capitalistic society is like saying we are a true democracy - it just ain't so no matter how many people claim it is such. We have a system designed were the "government protects those rights that would otherwise be lost" - we don't have, nor was one intended, a "free capitalism" by any means.
 
Good discussion with some excellent points being made. However, since I personally grossed all of $598 from the sale of cornsnakes in 2008 (and that includes the sales tax I had to pay the state which I didn't charge my customers), having to pay $500 for a license on top of all my other expenses is not exactly what I would care to have to do. But then, I'm not breeding corns to make money either (it would be nice to at least break even a few times, however). I do this because I enjoy it (at least that is what I keep telling myself).

I have morph preferences and I know other people do as well. I am never offended by anyone who doesn't like a particular morph that I fancy. I know that there are other people out there that do like them. "To each his own." said the farmer as he kissed the pig.

As for how I price my hatchlings...I see what other breeders are charging, compare their "name" and the quality of their snakes to my own, and go from there. Yes, I still have the remaining few '08 hatchlings marked at 50% off, but that discount takes into account the fact that those hatchlings had been problem feeders at one point and that I am still not guaranteeing them past live delivery. If someone wants them guaranteed beyond that, they will pay full price. Besides, I'm getting attached to them now, and the few inquiries I've had didn't go much past the shipping costs ($50+ for a $10 snake just doesn't work well).

I am also aware of the current economic situation. I am unable to afford many of the snakes I would like to purchase right now. There is a possibility that when the time comes for me to price my '09 hatchlings, the current economy will be reflected in not only my prices, but those of other breeders as well. I see too many snakes available in the For Sale forum that would have been sold long ago had it been like things were in '06 and even '07. Proven adults, both males AND females, of mid- to high end morphs, still on the market at good prices since before brumation is something I've not seen before.

And Rebecca does have an excellent idea with the marketing! The reptile industry as a whole needs to use the current economy to our advantage. I'm in the veterinary profession and I'll have to admit, so far, we haven't see that much of a drop in business, appointment wise. But I do the ordering for the hospital and not as much of certain medications/products are going out the door as they used to. People still take care of their pets, but breeders are seeing a drop in sales, the price of premium pet food is through the roof ($97 for a 30 pound bag of prescription low-allergen dog food is ridiculous, IMO), arthritis/pain medication sales are dropping, as is heartworm prevention and flea control sales. Owners are vaccinating only for rabies and boarding and grooming is down. We need to push reptiles as the affordable pet for the current economy, and corn snakes should be in the top 3 reptiles to push due to all the wonderful things we love about them. (I think corn snakes should be THE top, but some people will simply refuse to think about a snake for a pet and opt for a gecko instead.) If I can prevent the vet's soon-to-be-ex-wife from ripping it down, I'll be posting my snakes on our board at work, as well as any other place I can put up an ad for free.
 
Your right, people would not like it.. The biggest problem I think that would result out this is that it opens the door to let the Government wander in and snoop through the personals of the citizens.. Regardless whether your law abiding or not, that it self becomes an open invitation for authorities come on over.. I would look at this as something not very different from Gun Registration.. Even though it would be a way for different people to make the market theirs while making sure no one else can enjoy the possible prospects..

No offense, but you a TT seem to be assuming I intended anything more than what is required for ANY business (why should herps be completley excluded from licensing?). I wasn't talking about all the bad baggage that comes along with it - I was talking about a model that won't happen, anyway. Enforcement against people that don't have the license? It already isn't happening, but it is a good theory.

You are also obviously confusing the difference between rights and privileges when you compare herps and guns. That's just wrong. PLUS, the comment implying "make the market theirs" is hogwash since ANYONE could purchase such a license. Anyone. Maybe an 18 year old age limit in America, but that's not even what I would like to see. Ignoring the attempt to equate snakes with self defense, why should the herp trade be any different from all other businesses circulated around live natural resources? It's a fair question.

...and just remember this was talking about in a perfect world, etc. It'll never come to pass, and the bad baggage wouldn't happen in a perfect world. I wouldn't have even replied again except that I couldn't see the "America is pure capitalism" and "Snake permits are equivalent to gun registration" statements go unchallenged.

KJ
 
That's a great myth, but it is a myth nonetheless. In a pure capitalistic society, the end result is ALWAYS a monopoly. This, in most cases, is not beneficial to a free people nor the average consumer. Saying we are a pure capitalistic society is like saying we are a true democracy - it just ain't so no matter how many people claim it is such. We have a system designed were the "government protects those rights that would otherwise be lost" - we don't have, nor was one intended, a "free capitalism" by any means.

Well, I can see I was taken out of context a bit. I was given a general description of the meaning of the two and a brief opinion.

Regardless, our government has enough control over the things we do in our lives. Forcing unnecessary regulation and licensing is not the answer. I would rather have the right to choose who I buy my corn snakes from regardless of how large there herpitry is, not whether they can afford a license or not. Having more choices keeps the market fair for everyone!

Wayne
 
In my opinion, if I may share :) something totally my own "from the wife ;)" just by raising and showing many species of animals, the price not only is going on a what's in a morph but also the breeders reputation. I would like to say though that yes, maybe sometimes it gets discouraging when your looking for a special type but also remember how long it takes to plan and raise corn snakes over having a litter of standard show dogs. Years vs months. We all, no matter what species, have a standard within an association. The corn snake registry included, I'm sure is starting to focus on what lets say a BR should look like as well as a butter or any other since we now have more reptile expo's and exhibits going on. It also might not notice a standard but more along the line's of the breeders overall likes to what they would prefer a morph to look like. More white on the reveres high white Okeetee, more diffusion on a BR and so on and yadda ;)
Most reputable breeders "small hobby like me or a bigger facilities" don't just toss colors together and ship off. Most plan out everything from color, temperament and over all body shape and form. Well, that's what I like to do anyway ;)

I've show dogs and had to compete to get my name where I wanted as far as quality not quantity. Now that I show and raise gerbils I also had to not only help the society I'm involved in come up with an overall standard it also took five years for me to get the name I have now. My animals are shipped all over the US and they are gerbils lol.. Same apply's for any animal. Look to see what your focusing on, what is your goals for not only your pets but your business and go from there. It's a lot of fun yet, hard work and money to get where you want to go.

Everyone right now has their own likes to what they think the ideal color morphs is, it just all depends on what someone is looking for and how much they are really wanting to pay to add that to their line.. again also keep in mind how long it does take for a snake to grow and mature before anything could come out of it Vs the normal pet "IE: cat, dog, rodent" In each snake there is the breeders name stamped on them. You can see this from body figure and coloring from anyone like Kathy Love, Don Soderberg, Poppy corns, VMSherp. I have all those and notice each trait in body and color already. Depends on where you want to go :)

Hope this is taken on a pleasant note.. It can be a touchy subject hehe

<3 Huggles

~Christine~
 
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You know, some of you make good sense with your theories. One problem though. The US is a free capitalism and by having a free capitalistic society, each of us are guaranteed the right to commerce without government interference, with the exception to publicly traded corporations.

The alternative is Socialism where our government, not us, decides what we do, how we do it and how much we make from what we do! By licensing what we do and allowing the government in, we are handing our "businesses" over to the government for their regulation and control.

Is that what we want? Is that what we need?

I'm sorry, I would rather have the ability to shop around and find quality, reasonably priced animals.


Wayne

I couldn't agree more. :cheers:
 
KJ, I knew exactly what you were saying.. Ahemm, to quote myself.. "Heres DA".. I guess the accronym needs an explanation.. DA.. Devils Advocate.. *LOL*.. Its was no attempt to face off.. *lol*


Regards.. Tim of T and J
 
Having more choices keeps the market fair for everyone!

Actually, I've explained elsewhere why losing the big breeders will actually DECREASE the morphs available to us at any given time. I stand by that belief since the supporting evidence that makes be believe such hasn't changed, but I see no reason to go over it again. It's all been said too many times already, eh? LOL.

Ahemm, to quote myself.. "Heres DA".. I guess the accronym needs an explanation.. DA.. Devils Advocate.. *LOL*..

Yeah, that puts a completely different spin on things. I didn't know that's what "DA" meant. My bad - I stand corrected, and I would have phrased my response completely differently. Apologies.
 
Thats alright KJ.. No offense taken, I kind of figured there was a bit of a misunderstanding.. But a great answer to the spin..

Regards.. Tim of T and J
 
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