White House Blaming the Shutdown on....

[SarahP]

The point of putting delayed in with the other words is that the end desire is the same. No one has any reason to believe that, if for some reason, an agreement to delay the ACA came about, that there wouldn't be the exact same issue next year.

Meantime, yes, the country is hurting. To "fix" the country, we should make sure that millions of people go uninsured and that many premiums go up. I do understand that healthcare isn't the only strain that the country is under, but that doesn't seem like much of a fix.

Off the topic, sort of, why is it assumed that if a person doesn't agree with a point of view, they haven't done enough research or reading? You believe in your point of view; I believe in mine. They don't match up. That doesn't make me ignorant. It means I have a different point of view.

 

[Tara80]

You said that "it isn't about budget". That is not a "point of view" that is making an incorrect statement. All of this is about budget. The Tea Party's (real) concerns are about budget and economic collapse. ACA will help propel us headlong into this looming black cloud. That is why they want to delay it, so that it can be discussed later - I'm sure it will stay and I'm sure they will all add and remove portions of it that they deem fit, in the long run. Even if it takes them a long time, they always do. they are looking at it from this perspective, wanting to move on to more important issues but not wanting to pass something that they know will help our collapse.

I value everyone's opinion, especially if that other person has done their research. But to make a statement like that informs me that you did not, in fact, research beyond what the media has been stating or saying. If you want to use the word "disingenuous", well, that describes the media. They have been skewing numbers (such as unemployment) and devaluing very important issues such as our debt ceiling and how close this Country is to bankruptcy, for what reasons? I don't know. Their pockets are lined somehow, by someone. But it is very frustrating to see how pervasive the gloss is that has been applied by the media.

I don't mind opinions. I get frustrated about someone stating what they think is a "fact" when I know that it frankly is not a fact. Especially about something that is so close to my home and heart, and something I deal with every day.

I also apologize for being upset about this, I rarely let things bother me. Currently, my paycheck is being withheld and I can't make my house payment BUT I'd rather the right thing come out of this than get my money. I am literally scared about our Country's finances, scared about where we are heading... as Tsst said earlier, soon this issue will be at all of our doorsteps; knocking on our doors.

 

[SarahP]

...except I didn't say that. Given that they're refusing to pass a budget, why would I?

What I said was that this is about the ACA and is not a simple budgetary issue. And I continue to believe that.

Obviously the issue of the debt ceiling looms large. It would be nice if we could get past this so we can address that.

You can choose to believe that I didn't do the research you think I should have done. I know what I have and haven't researched. And that's that.

 

[Tara80]

this is about the ACA and is not a simple budgetary issue. And I continue to believe that.

Ok, that's what I was addressing. I guess if you say that your opinion is that the sky is green, so-be-it.
But this is false, I know this is false just from being a cog in this proverbial wheel.


I can honestly say that the average citizen has no idea how much trouble this Country really is in. I guess we can keep borrowing and sit back and see what happens.

 

[Nova_C]

The president cannot, absolutely cannot blink.

I honestly can't understand why almost everyone here things that the House should be the wielder of absolute power of the rest of the government.

Regardless of ACA, regardless of the debt ceiling, regardless of the budget, if the Obama administration capitulates, then the die is cast.

Whoever controls the House controls the entire government. Whoever you vote for President doesn't matter. Whoever you vote for Senate doesn't matter. Whoever you vote for the House rules over all.

This completely undermines everything in the government.

Which is, I believe, the goal of the extreme right. Don't trust the government. Hate the government. They can't do this, the government is incompetent. No, don't look at every other developed nation, America is different. Americans are different. Our government is out to get us. Our government is evil. Arm yourself for the coming conflict. Prepare. Stockpile. Bunker. Be afraid.

And above all, vote Tea Party. We'll run the government the way you want. Straight into the ground.

 

[Tara80]

It is common sense to know that less government means more control over your household and less chance for the wrong person to direct the puppet strings.
There are always extremes/extremists at both ends.

Of course we need government, but we also need individual freedoms. There is a fine line between how we associate and deal with each other (our neighbors) and then controlling each other based on how we "feel".

There should always be a yin and yang.

 

[Outcast]

Misconception number one of the U.S. Government. (The President is the end all say all and cannot blink because it will cast a die that the other branches of the government have more power and will rule).....


Hope this helps you figure it out.

 

[Nova_C]

I know the President isn't the be all and end all, but if a minority in the House is able to just blackmail the rest of the government into removing any law it doesn't like arbitrarily, then that graphic you're showing will have just one circle on it.

 

[Outcast]

Here is an "alternate media" blog thing that talks about the shut down... Very right leaning though, so some of you may not even want to bother. http://universalfreepress.com/obamas-unwillingness-to-negotiate-will-destroy-democrats/

 

[tsst]

...What I said was that this is about the ACA and is not a simple budgetary issue. And I continue to believe that. ....

It is budgetary. No matter what funding is passed or not passed the ACA stays unless it is repealed through legislative action.

The president cannot, absolutely cannot blink.

I honestly can't understand why almost everyone here things that the House should be the wielder of absolute power of the rest of the government.

Regardless of ACA, regardless of the debt ceiling, regardless of the budget, if the Obama administration capitulates, then the die is cast.

Whoever controls the House controls the entire government. Whoever you vote for President doesn't matter. Whoever you vote for Senate doesn't matter. Whoever you vote for the House rules over all.

This completely undermines everything in the government.

Which is, I believe, the goal of the extreme right. Don't trust the government. Hate the government. They can't do this, the government is incompetent. No, don't look at every other developed nation, America is different. Americans are different. Our government is out to get us. Our government is evil. Arm yourself for the coming conflict. Prepare. Stockpile. Bunker. Be afraid.

And above all, vote Tea Party. We'll run the government the way you want. Straight into the ground.

I can only assume extreme hyperbole.

As far as Americans, we are different. What developed nation would you have us emulate?

Misconception number one of the U.S. Government. (The President is the end all say all and cannot blink because it will cast a die that the other branches of the government have more power and will rule).....


Hope this helps you figure it out.

Nice simplified description. I like it.

 

[Nova_C]

Oh my god that article is amazing. Thanks for linking that, Tsst!

 

[Nova_C]

Whoops, sorry, Outcast linked it! Tsst's post was right below it. Apologies.

 

[Outcast]

Oh my god that article is amazing. Thanks for linking that, Tsst!

Thank you Nova. I didn't think that you would like it very much because it calls out a lot of people.

 

[Nova_C]

Yep.

The Republican Party cannot stand by and let Obamacare destroy this country.

 

[Rich Z]

Misconception number one of the U.S. Government. (The President is the end all say all and cannot blink because it will cast a die that the other branches of the government have more power and will rule).....


Hope this helps you figure it out.

Interesting. So how does Congress get away with passing laws where they state that certain parties are exempted from legal liability? Isn't that one of the three parts neutering one of the other parts? But then again, the POTUS OFTEN bypasses Congress merely by writing off the cuff legislation via "presidential directives".

I guess the only remaining thing left concerning the burning of the US Constitution is the actual act of putting a match to it.

 

[Rich Z]

Yep.

The Republican Party cannot stand by and let Obamacare destroy this country.

Which some of us are actually applauding. Not that it is anything more than symbolic, of course. We all know how this is really going to end. Just like we know exactly how the wrangling over increasing the debt limit is going to go.

This "good ship Titanic" has no rudder and the only thing anyone is doing is just forging full speed ahead while making a public display of fighting about the color of the deck chairs.

 

[Outcast]

This "good ship Titanic" has no rudder and the only thing anyone is doing is just forging full speed ahead while making a public display of fighting about the color of the deck chairs.

I love this analogy.

 

[Duae]

I won't get into the nitty gritty, but I will say. I have friends who are alive today because of the Affordable Care Act. So I am very biased towards thinking it's a fantastic thing. So a lot of the arguing comes across as "I value my politics over real human lives".

 

[tsst]

The point of putting delayed in with the other words is that the end desire is the same. No one has any reason to believe that, if for some reason, an agreement to delay the ACA came about, that there wouldn't be the exact same issue next year.

Meantime, yes, the country is hurting. To "fix" the country, we should make sure that millions of people go uninsured and that many premiums go up. I do understand that healthcare isn't the only strain that the country is under, but that doesn't seem like much of a fix.

....

You're correct the ACA is not nearly enough. Much much much more cutting will be needed.

No to "fix" the country we have got to cut back on spending, period. Adding another $2trillion dollar unsustainable entitlement program is not cutting back. Do you really believe the goal is to make sure millions are uninsured?!?! Switch the channel from Rachel Maddow.

I won't get into the nitty gritty, but I will say. I have friends who are alive today because of the Affordable Care Act. So I am very biased towards thinking it's a fantastic thing. So a lot of the arguing comes across as "I value my politics over real human lives".

I would be interested as to which part of the ACA saved your friends lives if you don't mind sharing.

Yep.

The Republican Party cannot stand by and let Obamacare destroy this country.

I don't care what letter is next to the name. Whomever is ready to take the very unpopular stand of cutting spending I am for them. If dems tomorrow started seriously cutting entitlements across the board I would wear a donkey lapel pin everyday. I know your statement was meant sarcastic but in reality it is true. Adding $7trillion to our debt in just 5 years is absolutely destruction for anyone not wearing rose colored Obama glasses. You seem like a smart guy, I can't understand how you don't see this utterly out of control spending of money we don't have cannot continue. :shrugs:

 

[Aozora]

I would be interested as to which part of the ACA saved your friends lives if you don't mind sharing.

I know this was not directed at me, but I feel I need to put my 2 cents in.

The ACA/Obamacare has made generic birth control free to those who get a prescription for it. I have a condition where if my hormones are not being regulated by birth control of some kind, the endometrium of my uterus will grow out of control--essentially cancer but not in so many words. Prior to this provision of the ACA, my insurance would not cover my birth control prescription. They would rather let me deal with an entirely ty quality of life (ohithar extremely heavy periods lasting 18-25 days) and the potential for cancer than just give me some darn birth control. Now, I don't have to worry about that anymore, thanks to that provision of the ACA.