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White-Sided Amel Beast Corn Pics

Ryan Beatty

Ryan Beatty

New member
Here are a few pics of the White-Sided Amel Beast Corn project I'm working on. The first 2 pics are the white-sided amels the other pics are amels poss het for white-sided.

They are 50% Black Rat and 50% Corn btw.

Ryan
 

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Ooooh I really like the first amel ph white sided that's pictured! Are the beast siblings considerably larger?
 
I am usually not a fan of intergrades but I really like that first hatchling pictured. Very nice. Congrats.
 
The Beast Corns do tend to hatch larger than a corn but not as big as a Black Rat. The parents to these are about 5 feet and eat 3 jumbo mice at a time.

Ryan
 
Is the Amel Gene in these two species compatible?
What are the chances of Amel babies in the F1 generation?

I ask because I will be crossing my Male Amel Corn to my female Black Rat this coming season.
 
The amel genes in both are compatible. The original breeding was a white-sided black rat bred to an amel corn. It turned out the black rat was het for amel and we got half a clutch of amel beast corns het white-sided.
 
These are F2's but I did get amels in the F1's. The amel gene in black rat is the same as the amel gene in corns....freaky!
 
In F2 the baby's are only 50/50 as an average :p
Since the amels are compatible, these ones can be homo for one of them or both, right? I think I do see three phenotypes!
 
Since both parents were 50% Corn 50% Black Rat then all offspring from them when bred together will be 50% Corn 50% Black Rat.

The amel gene is the same in Black Rats and Corns, so it's just one type of amel at work here, not two. The reason the white-sideds look so light is due to the lightening effect of the white-sided gene. At first I thought I had snow in the line as well due to the white-sideds being so light but I have proved they are not snows through test breedings.

Good questions.
 
Ryan Beatty said:
Since both parents were 50% Corn 50% Black Rat then all offspring from them when bred together will be 50% Corn 50% Black Rat.
Click to expand...

No, personally I think it is a fault to say that. Think of what 50/50 means; the F1 snake carry's a black rat and a corn gene in each gene pair. Like a black rat amel and a corn amel gene. And like a rat gene for the eye color and a corn gene for the eye color and so on.

Since each parent can give either the black rat or the corn gene from each gene pair to its offspring, there even is a tiny, tiny chance 50/50 x 50/50 produces a 100% black rat or corn. But they will produce also anything in between; like 70/30, 40/60 and so on. That's why F1 baby's are quite similar and F2 not. It's all statistics.

You are right about the amel stuff indeed, I mixed it up, lol. I did understand the compatibility, yet went on about there being three different amel types.. :crazy01: Silly me...
 
I have to disagree with you. Since the original breeding was a black rat to a corn the resulting offspring are a mix of both, black rat and corn. Since one parent is a corn then 50% of it's species makeup comes from the corn and 50% of it's species makeup comes from the black rat. The F1's are therefore 50% corn and 50% black rat. When bred to each other they pass down that same percentage to the F2's, 50/50. Since we are mixing 2 different SPECIES, not GENES then there is no GENE for black rat or corn. Basically you can't be het for black rat or corn.
You could NEVER get a 100% pure corn or black rat from breeding hybrids that are 50/50 crosses......EVER.
 
I'll try to find a thread in which I talked about this wit Serpwidget, it is true. Meanwhile maybe these pics will help to understand. The chance of getting a 100% corn or rat is way low, but it is there.

edit; found thread but it is in 'the other' forum :p

http://www..com/forum/showthread.php?t=8521&page=2&highlight=hybrid

Hope it's ok to post this.
 

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As far as I know, the amel genes for rat snakes and corn snakes are not compatible, here's a clutch pic from a snow corn X het amel black rat

hybrids110508006.jpg


The fact that you got amels in your clutch of F1's is interesting; would love to see pics of the parents...
 
I asked Don Soderberg about this and this is what he had to say concerning crossing 50/50 hybrids.


"Think of polygenetic hybrid partners (whthout mutations) as a gallons of water and milk - respectively.
If you cross a gallon of milk with a gallon of water, you have equal amounts of water and milk (essentially the phenotype of that union is liquid that is half as color saturated as pure milk OR half as clear as water). So if you mix the milky water with equally milky water, the product (milky water) is chemically like both parent liquids (still 50/50 water/milk). If you mix this liquid product with pure milk, you make the water milkier (50/50 milky water with 100% milk = three parts milk and one part water). And so on. Of course, if you get genetic mutations involved, it's a different story, but what throws a wrench in the works when a mutation is borrowed from one species - in the case of a recessively-inherited mutation - it's participation is ON or OFF. The proportion of species blood can skew in all selective directions in successive out-bred generations, but the mutation is either there or it is not (not at all OR het or homo). As I always say, if you pour that first gallon of 1/2 water and 1/2 milk into a swimming pool, the milk is invisible, but MILK is now a part of the swimming pool contents. DNA has proven that most of the North American colubrids are related to some degree. The relationship of some snake species is probably akin to the relationship of Dalmatians to Pomeranians. If you had the recipe for the differences between the two dog breeds, you could back-breed all the way back to the common wolf ancestor.

At least, that's the way I see it."

Don
 
Chris68

Concerning the amel gene is black rat there are actually 2 forms of amel in black rats. One is compatible with the amel in corn, apparently from what you saw in your breedings the other is not.

Since I got amels in the F1's from crossing a black rat to a corn then one form of amel MUST be compatible with the amel in corn.
 
It moved apparently;

http://www..com/forum/showthread.php?t=8521&page=2&highlight=hybrid

(somehow it won't work if clicked on, you have to copy/paste into browser)

edit; it looks like the name of the other forum cannnot be pasted here... I will send you an email.

What I'm trying to explain is, that it does not work like mixing milk and water as I understood and was confirmed by Serpwidgets. In no way I mean to be patronising or silly, but I hope to explain myself better with a more easy to understand example;

Imagine two cupboards (named parents DNA :) ) with let's say 32 drawers. In the drawers are balls (being gene pairs :) ), one drawer for each. One has all drawers filled with purple balls (pairs of rat genes), the other one with pink (being pairs of corn genes). There is an empty cupboard called F1. You have to fill each of F1's drawers with a pair of balls, consisting of one ball from parent cupboard 1, one from parent cupboard 2, from the corresponding drawer. You can't look in the drawers, you have to pick one blindly ('dealing' halfs of gene pairs to sperm or egg cells is a random action which causes a 50% chance to be chosen for each). Of course all drawers in F1 will all contain a purple and a pink ball.

Now we refill the parent cupboards and fill another F1, which of course shows a similar result; all F1 drawers contain a purple and a pink ball .

Now, we are going to fill the 32 drawers from another cupboard named F2, from the drawers in both F1 cupboards, again, from corresponding drawers BUT you can't see which ball you take from the drawers. Do you think F2 drawers will all be filled with a pink and a purple ball?

It does not matter if the pink or purple ball in a drawer can be seen from the outside or if they can't, or if they are seen as a mix of pink and purple, they are there, and define the content of the drawer, and with it the make up of the cupboard.

(note; in real life 'dealing' the halves of gene pairs is not 100% random per cell, they are dealt in randomly chosen 'left or right groups' but for this case that is not relevant)
 
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