Who says co2 doesn't work on pinkies?

[jimmythetiger]

So I harvested some pinks today, and I thought that instead of just throwing them in the freezer, I would dope 'em up with c02 first then throw them in the freezer since 'apparently' co2 doesn't work on pinkies to kill them...(I made my own chamber and used baking soda and vinegar)

Anyway, after about 20 minutes, I checked and sure enough, they were dead! They were a grey blue color and definitely dead.
This was actually my first pre-killing, and I felt really bad for those mice, but a snakes gotta eat.. anyway, forgive me if I'm yellow, but I cried >.>

So yeah, forget what everyone says I'm just gonna use co2 from now on.

Lol forgive my random rambling, I just thought I would share my input.

 

[ghosthousecorns]

My pinkies usually just go directly into freezer and are dead in a few minutes. The only thing that bugs me is when I have to freeze a whole litter they huddle for warmth. I found a great idea from this forum a while back though, and use an ice cube tray to keep them separate so they go quickly, with something so small the death by freezing occurs very quickly. I wouldn't take the extra step of using CO2 first unless it was bigger.

 

[Nanci]

I don't believe anyone said it didn't work, I believe that it is found to be less than humane because of the length of time it takes to suffocate a pinky mouse, due to their tolerance of low O2 levels which is of benefit while in the nest.

 

[jimmythetiger]

Is it any less humane if they're basically under anesthesia?

 

[Nanci]

http://oacu.od.nih.gov/ARAC/documents/Rodent_Euthanasia_Pup.pdf

3.
Neonates: Maturation of nociceptors and the development of excitatory and inhibitory receptor systems occur during the period just prior to birth and into the second week of postnatal life (13-16). Resistance to hypoxia at this age results in a prolonged time to unconsciousness when CO2 is used as a euthanasia agent (1, 8). A secondary physical method of euthanasia is recommended to ensure death (e.g. cervical dislocation, decapitation, bilateral pneumothorax). Death must be verified after euthanasia and prior to disposal (17).
a.
Mouse, Rat and Hamster Neonates up to 10 days of age: Acceptable methods for euthanasia include: injection of chemical anesthetics (e.g., pentobarbital), decapitation, or cervical dislocation. Additionally, these animals are sensitive to inhalant anesthetics; e.g., CO2, halothane or isoflurane (used with appropriate safety considerations) although prolonged exposure may be necessary. A secondary physical method of euthanasia is recommended to ensure death (e.g. cervical dislocation, decapitation, bilateral pneumothorax). Immersion in liquid nitrogen may be used only if preceded by anesthesia. Similarly, anesthesia should precede immersion or perfusion with chemical fixatives. Anesthesia may be induced by inhalant or injectable anesthetics; the institute veterinarian should be consulted for appropriate agents and dosages. Alternatively, when adequately justified, hypothermia may be used to induce anesthesia in pups six days of age or less (9, 10).

9. Phifer, C.B., and L.M. Terry. 1986. Use of hypothermia for general anesthesia in preweanling rodents. Physiol. Behav. 38:887-890.
10. Danneman, P.J., and T.D. Mandrell. 1997. Evaluation of five agents/methods for anesthesia of neonatal rats. Lab. Anim. Sci. 47:386-395.

(How on earth do you give a pinky mouse a bilateral pneumothorax??)

 

[jimmythetiger]

Okay, so it just takes longer. Does that mean it's in anymore pain?

 

[KJUN]

Okay, so it just takes longer. Does that mean it's in anymore pain?

Let's see. CO2 works in adults because it (to put it in extremely simple terms) shuts down the brain rather quickly. The animal can't register the parts if its death that WOULD be painful. It isn't like the animal is slowly choked to death. The brain lacks oxygen, it shuts down, then agonal respiration occurs. With young ones, they brain doesn't shut down like that because the animal needs to be able to survive naturally in a somewhat partial anoxic environment. So, if you do it SLOWLY (like CO2 does on pink mice), the animal dies with no guarantee that the brain shuts down before agonal respiration occurs. It is at least believed that it is possible it doesn't! Hence, this is why C02 is not an accepted form of euthanasia (I.e., a good death) for small rodents.