Your Religious Views

[susang]

I voted "thesis" only because I believe in a Greater Being. I tell people I am Muslim only because I believe that there is One God and it seems to me some people believe there may be more than One God. But even saying I am Muslim is too simple.

I'm with you only I tell people I am Jewish as they believe in one God. Also all the laws of the Talmud boil down to one 'the golden rule,' and I like that. My belief is more on the spiritual side, I believe there is something greater than all of us. Whether it be god, goddess, mother earth or a rock, I'll go with whatever one believes as long as they believe in something, even if that something is couragously being an athiest.
I agree with others religion is the design of man to defend beliefs. I think the Torah, Koran and Bible are all great books. I say "Happy Holidays" because Hanukkah was celebrated long before Christmas and deserves recognition, as does Ramedahn if it falls near Dec.25. I also believe far too many people have died in wars based on religion. I will also go way out on limb here and say I when I hear "and may God bless America," I'm pretty sure God blesses every country on earth. just my thoughts, susan

 

[dr73]

I do not go to church but i am religious. The bible states that the earth was made in 6 days (hard to believe but......) it says that god made the earth then he parted the waters( made land) then he made sea animals then land animals then he made man. Even science proves this order! The big thing is the bible was wrote a couple thousand years ago! As far as evolution goes prove to me or show me a fossil of an in between animal. No one has yet to show that (except in drawings in a book) If you want to be a descendant from a monkey then go climb a tree. I on the other hand say god made us. Can you really think that the whole world is just a chance happening? if that is so then do you believe in aliens? god is a belief he will only be proven when you die. (if he is or is not real) a had a preacher tell me once that if you live a good chisten life an die an there is no god what did you loose? but if there is a god an you live how you want then die you burn in hell for ever! Saying I believe in god is not the easy way out. in fact it makes it harder. I love snakes yet the bible states that a snake was made as punishment ( the Adam an Eve an the forbidden fruit thing) that does not make them evil but that is :-offtopic Blind faith is hard to except in this word because everyone wants proof. well I say prove god does not exist or that charels Darwin is correct. until either one of these is done then I will believe in god.

 

[Roy Munson]

...had a preacher tell me once that if you live a good chisten life an die an there is no god what did you loose? but if there is a god an you live how you want then die you burn in hell for ever!

I guess you'd better hope that when you die that it's not Zeus or Odin meeting you! Pascal's wager has always been a little narrow in scope.

I love this quote:

"I contend that we are both atheists, I just believe in one less god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all other possible gods, then you will know why I dismiss yours." -Stephen F. Roberts

 

[Duff]

I guess you'd better hope that when you die that it's not Zeus or Odin meeting you! Pascal's wager has always been a little narrow in scope.

Perfect counterpoint.

I would have to go on record as somewhere in between the given options, so not sure what to pick. I don't subscribe to any organized religion, but I do believe that there's some greater presence of some sort out there. My parents did the whole sunday school and even sent me to a sleep away bible camp, but I just never was able to accept "just because". And one more point about orgainzed religion... it is at the root of pretty much every major human attrocity in recorded history. It's control through fear. Someone explain to me a good God-fearing Christian, when everything I was told in sunday school was about how merciful and forgiving He is? That's control through fear.

But just to end on a good note, I have no problem with anyone's beliefs and I know most religious people are in it for the right reasons.

 

[desertanimal]

As for me, I'm with science all the way, and am by far the strongest atheist of anyone I know (Most people I know are agnostic).

I'd like to make what I feel is an important point. You appear to set up a mutually exclusive relationship between God and science, and it is this common misunderstanding that places science education in this country in great peril.

Believing in God and believing in science are not mutually exclusive at all. They are two fundamentally different endeavors. Science does not apply to all pursuits of knowledge of all kinds. Science is sort of like 20 questions. If you can put forward an hypothesis that can be rejected, that is falsifiable, then science can answer that question. But if the hypothesis cannot be falsified, e.g., H: God exists, that hypothesis is outside the realm of science. It doesn't make the hypothesis false, necessarily. It simply makes it out of the reach of science. Many religious questions, most philosophical questions, etc., are all beyond the reach of science. Doesn't mean the answers to those questions don't exist, just means that science can't answer them.

Therefore, people can believe both in science and in God. They are two completely different realms of inquiry, two completely different realms of truth. Now, sometimes, the two overlap. Some people's religion dictates that they believe that evolution doesn't happen, when in does and it has according to all the scientific evidence we have. But what about the question, "Was God in charge of evolution?" Science can't answer that one. Since a God would be omnipotent and not bound by natural laws, hypotheses about God cannot be falsified.

You, personally, can choose to believe only those things that can be disproved, that is, only things that are answerable by science (nothing can ever actually be proven in science, things can only be disproved or found to stand up to lots and lots of testing so that we think the hypothesis is surely correct). But that, actually, is a choice of what to believe that is not based any more in logic than another person's choice to believe in things that cannot be disproved (God).

I, also, choose only to believe in things that can be answered scientifically. But if you make that choice, you cannot logically conclude that God doesn't exist--you can only conclude, like science does, that we don't know, because the answer cannot be found scientifically. This, my choice to believe as firmly in science as I do (actually, for me it's more of an inherent way of being more than a choice, I think) is what makes me an agnostic. And yes, to answer another poster, I also think that aliens might exist--there is no way for us to prove that they do not.

 

[BezilsGirl]

The only major arguements I get into with animal people are generally religion (I don't generally argue about politics, I don't really have any strong feelings...other than we're screwed no matter who we put into power)- the only major arguements I get into with religious people (assuming they are of my same religious leaning) are about animals lol. :shrugs: ("No my snakes are NOT evil!... " I can't win...

 

[tyflier]

Desertanimal wrote:

...And yes, to answer another poster, I also think that aliens might exist--there is no way for us to prove that they do not....

I am so glad someone else answered this.

As I said in my earlier post, I think it is human arrogance to consider any other probability. The numbers are astronomically in favor of the developement of many other populated and habitable planets. Perhaps none other like our own, but others...

 

[Jrgh17]

Personally, I don't believe that science disproves the existence of God, or that believing in God means you can't also see the truth in science. (I'm religious, if you can't tell)

Man is, by definition, fallible. Therefore, it seems reasonable that when writing the various holy books, someone messed up. Maybe the story of Adam and Eve was a somewhat skewed version of the first humans evolving. A lot of the creation stories of different religions have something to do with a deity making the first humans out of the earth/etc. If you assume that these stories are at least *based* on truth, it seems reasonable that the details changed from a lot of retelling the story.

Similarly, I don't believe evolution can disprove the existence of God. Any good biologist will tell you that we can't fully explain evolution. We have a mechanism for how it happened (e.g. Natural Selection), but the time frame is completely off. The chances are pretty slim that a bunch of traits evolved simultaneously to give the animal it's advantage, which resulted in the trait being selected for. There is still something that scientists are missing. Personally, I believe this extra directional force may be a god or higher power of some sort.

 

[Roy Munson]

You, personally, can choose to believe only those things that can be disproved, that is, only things that are answerable by science (nothing can ever actually be proven in science, things can only be disproved or found to stand up to lots and lots of testing so that we think the hypothesis is surely correct). But that, actually, is a choice of what to believe that is not based any more in logic than another person's choice to believe in things that cannot be disproved (God).

I have to disagree with this. Smarter atheists than I am have pointed out that certainty that gods don't exist is not a requirement for atheism to be rationally justifiable. I've seen the "rising sun" example used to point out the difference between certainty and rational justification. I can't be certain that the sun will rise tomorrow, but I am rationally justified in believing that it will. I don't need certainty to hold the belief; I just need good reasons to believe that it's true. I don't see any problem with that logic. If someone claims that there are gods, I have to to find good reasons to subscribe to that belief too. Personally, I haven't found good or compelling reasons, so I've formed the belief that gods do not exist. I'm not certain that none exists, but it's not irrational or illogical for me to believe that none does. :shrugs:

 

[Russell]

I didn't bother voting. I hate religion. Yet I'm a born again, saved and heaven bound christian. But I hate religion. For me, religion is not what I believe in. What I believe simply is that I'm guilty of doing wrong things, yesterday, today, and into the future. But by repenting, that is, being sorry for those wrong doings, and accepting Jesus as my Lord and Savior, the Son of God. I'm saved.

that's the biblical way to heaven. Nice and simple. No requirement to be in church every Sunday. No having to do a bunch of works, religious acts, repeating some prayer over and over again.

Just a simple faith just as it's laid out in the bible. But anyhow, the question got asked and I'm telling it. I couldn't vote religious, cause I'm not religious! Just simply a relationship with the creator. A point I shoot at anyone who says to me, oh snakes are evil. Yet fact is the bible just simply took snakes legs away as their curse. Mankind was cursed with death for sin... Uh, who's the evil one? Not too many verses earlier God was done with the creation and called it GOOD... Nuff said in my book!

I feel I should explain how what I say is biblical...

John 3:3 except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God

Titus 3:5 not by works of righteousness (religion!) which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are you saved through faith, and not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Luke 13:3 Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish

Acts 3:19 Reptent ye therefore and be converted that your sins may be blotted out

John 14:6 I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me (Jesus speaking here, not Mary, not Peter, not... Just Jesus)

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved

just to add, this what my faith is in. Just simple stuff right out of the bible. This doesn't make me some perfect person, far from it. Only forgiven. I'll keep sinning till the day I die. Not something I'm proud of, just honest! I'm not one of those proud arrogant religious people who look down their nose at you cause they somehow believe they are perfect and got it right and you the snake loving heathen are heading for hell...well I sure got news for them! They probably have it backwards!

 

[Paradox]

Can you really think that the whole world is just a chance happening? if that is so then do you believe in aliens?

Yes and yes. The universe is huge. It's probable that at least one world got the right conditions for life to occur, so I can believe it's a chance happening considering the size of it all, and yes I think it's entierly possible that this happened on more than one world, so there may well be aliens.

I'd like to make what I feel is an important point. You appear to set up a mutually exclusive relationship between God and science, and it is this common misunderstanding that places science education in this country in great peril.

Believing in God and believing in science are not mutually exclusive at all. They are two fundamentally different endeavors. Science does not apply to all pursuits of knowledge of all kinds. Science is sort of like 20 questions. If you can put forward an hypothesis that can be rejected, that is falsifiable, then science can answer that question. But if the hypothesis cannot be falsified, e.g., H: God exists, that hypothesis is outside the realm of science. It doesn't make the hypothesis false, necessarily. It simply makes it out of the reach of science. Many religious questions, most philosophical questions, etc., are all beyond the reach of science. Doesn't mean the answers to those questions don't exist, just means that science can't answer them.

Therefore, people can believe both in science and in God. They are two completely different realms of inquiry, two completely different realms of truth. Now, sometimes, the two overlap. Some people's religion dictates that they believe that evolution doesn't happen, when in does and it has according to all the scientific evidence we have. But what about the question, "Was God in charge of evolution?" Science can't answer that one. Since a God would be omnipotent and not bound by natural laws, hypotheses about God cannot be falsified.

You, personally, can choose to believe only those things that can be disproved, that is, only things that are answerable by science (nothing can ever actually be proven in science, things can only be disproved or found to stand up to lots and lots of testing so that we think the hypothesis is surely correct). But that, actually, is a choice of what to believe that is not based any more in logic than another person's choice to believe in things that cannot be disproved (God).

I, also, choose only to believe in things that can be answered scientifically. But if you make that choice, you cannot logically conclude that God doesn't exist--you can only conclude, like science does, that we don't know, because the answer cannot be found scientifically. This, my choice to believe as firmly in science as I do (actually, for me it's more of an inherent way of being more than a choice, I think) is what makes me an agnostic. And yes, to answer another poster, I also think that aliens might exist--there is no way for us to prove that they do not.

Nicely made point, I was not trying to separate the two however; several people I know follow both. But I personally am purely with science. I follow the view that religion was designed as something to explain happenings in the world when science had not advanced enough to explain more to us. As science is still developing, Religion is still around. But IF (And that's a big if, it probably will never happen but for the sake of argument say it does) science advances as far as it can go, and even manages through some means to prove that there is no God - will Religion convert with this proof, or still not believe it? Will we end up still with what we have - those who believe blindly in a theory (And I admire you all for it by the way, having the willpower to put everything on the line like that), and those who believe in the proof of science? I think we will. Nothing will ever be strong enough to wrench people away from their beliefs...

 

[Pet Corn Snake]

George- You're a contributing member!! When did that happen? I'm proud of you! Are you revelling in your editing capabilities?

Nanci

:-offtopic

yea I'm a contributer now, I it would be nice to both have editing ability's and contribute towards the forum, actually my mum + bob thought all the advise I was getting has really helped me, and actually them too, they can now sometimes even handle Damien witch is great because they used to be scared of snakes, whats revelling mean? LOL :shrugs:

 

[Nanci]

http://www.m-w.com !!!

1 : to take part in a revel : CAROUSE
2 : to take intense pleasure or satisfaction

 

[Pet Corn Snake]

oh lol, well still a little confused, but i edited the post because I posted my opinion on my post, however i then thought that a lot of people would disagree and i just did not want to upset anyone with my opinion, I do highly respect religious people, however it's just not what I'am.

: )

 

[Nanci]

I guess you'd better hope that when you die that it's not Zeus or Odin meeting you! Pascal's wager has always been a little narrow in scope.

This reminds me so much of a passage from Spook- but I'm going to quote the two preceding paragraphs just because I find them similar to how I felt as a child.

"My mother worked hard to instill faith in me...Most memorably, she read me the Bible. Every night at bedtime she'd plow through a chapter or two, handing over the book at appropriate moments to show me the color reproductions of parables and miracles. The crumbling walls of Jericho. Jesus walking atop the stormy seas with palms upturned. The raising of Lazarus- depicted in my mother's bible as a sort of Boris Karloff knockoff, wrapped in mummy's rags and rising stiffly from the waist. I could not believe these things happened, because another god, the god who wore lab glasses and knew how to use a slide rule, wanted to know how, scientifically speaking, these things could be possible. Faith did not take, because science kept putting it on the spot. Did the horns make the walls fall, or did there happen to be an earthquake while the priests were trumpeting? Was it possible Jesus was making use of an offshore atoll, the tops of which sometimes lie just inches below the water's surface? Was Lazarus a simple case of premature entombment? I wasn't saying these things didn't happen. I was just saying I'd feel better with some proof.

Of course, science doesn't dependably deliver truths. It is as fallible as the men and women who undertake it. Science has the answer to every question that can be asked. However, science reserves the right to change that answer should additional data become available. Science first betrayed me in the early eighties, when I learned that brontosaurus had lived in a sere, rocky desert setting. The junior science books of my childhood had shown brontosaurs hip-deep in brackish waters, swamp greens dangling from the sides of their mouths. They'd shown tyrannosaurs standing erect as socialites and lumbering Godzilla-slow, when in reality, we were later told, they had sprinted like roadrunners, back flat and tail aloft. Science has had us buying into the therapeutic benefits of bloodletting, of treating meloncholy with arsenic and epilepsy with goose droppings. It's not all that much different today. Hormome replacement therapy went from miracle to scourge literally overnight. Fats wore the Demon Nutrient mantle for fifteen years, then without warning passed it to carbohydrates....

Flawed as it is, science remains the most solid god I've got. And so I decided to turn to it, to see what it had to say on the topic of life after death. Because I know what religion says, and it perplexes, me. It doesn't deliver a single, coherent, scientifically sensible or provable scenario. Religion says that your soul goes to heaven or possibly a seven-tiered garden, or that your soul is reincarnated into a new body, or that you lie around in your coffin clothes until the Second Coming. And, of course, only one of these can be true. Which means that for millions of people, religion will turn out to have been a bum steer as regards the hereafter. Science seemed the better bet."

Mary Roach, in "Spook"

 

[suecornish]

So who is to say that "Stargate" is not real. It could be that our "God(s)" are aliens with "snakes" in them. We just do not "know".

We believe and that is what faith is based on - belief; not knowledge. But humans as a race would be better off if we allow others their beliefs and stop treating our beliefs as knowledge. (I don't mean anyone of us personally but each of us as part of a collective whole - humanity.)

 

[Jay@PJCReptiles]

I could not make a choice as nothing you listed I feel pertained to me. I am half native American and I will say I am spiritual but am not a religious person. I have a hard time with the Bible and the fact that everything was created in 6 days. I would have to say I am a Darwinist when it comes to the way things came to be. I feel one would have to be absurd not to believe in the theory of evolution. The facts are there and it is undeniable. There is one thing that the Bible and I agree upon and that is the fact that we came from the Earth and we shall return to the Earth as the verse says "Ashes to ashes and dust to dust". As a native American I feel that all living things have their own spirit/life force that could not be controlled or looked over upon by one ultimate being. I may also be quite reserved to be a religious person due to the fact that my ancestors were so kindly forced to practice a religion that truly wasn't theirs nor did they want it to be. We were called savages and forced to convert and if we didn't we were labled heathans and put to death by the Catholic Spaniards who claimed to be doing the work of God. I have a very hard time with this as the Bible preaches on the grounds of being merciful. I say, what is so merciful about killing thousands of people just because they don't follow the same ideology as you. Spaniards came to Central America and into the southwest of the United States under the guise of claiming new souls for the Catholic religion. They had to convert as many "savages" as they could for the hand of God and if one didn't convert you were killed. This is a farce in my opinion as they truly came here to rape the land of it's resources, mainly gold. If history is correct, and I think it is, why don't you try to find a Mian or an Incan and ask them their opinion. I need to stop as I feel I am going off on a rant. I do, however, appreciate your post on this topic. Religion is a tough one for me as I don't understand why so many people have had to die just because they didn't conform to someone else's ideals. As you can see the very same thing is happening today in the Middle East and isn't it funny how history repeats itself. These are just some of my feelings about this topic, trust me, I could go all day about this one. Thanks for letting me post.
There is a saying "If one doesn't learn from the past he will be condemned to repeat it."
Jay

 

[ladydragon]

hhmm... I voted agnostic but Im sure on where I stand in making my choices. ::takes the plunge because she knows the reactions she usually gets::
I was raised a Jehovah's Witness. I did try to follow their ways, but it wasn't for me. However, the morals that they instilled, like most religions are still with me, but they are the basic morals that all people should follow anyways.. care about others, dont kill anybody, dont steal, (the 10 commandments) etc etc etc.

As for believing in god existing.. yeah I believe he exists. I believe that he created our universe and us and then told our first parents, here are some choices and some basic rules. Its up to you, but if you need me I'm here for you. As for permanent punishment in a fiery hell.. dont think so. If you make wrong choices while your living, your punishment is the consequences created from those wrong choices. You, as an individual have a chance to make ammends, to correct your wrong choices and hope that your life will end up in a better place because you tried to fix your mistakes. And your reward for making good choices is a life that is happy and beneficial to you and those around you. If there is a reward for making good choices where your soul continues on somewhere else after you die thats great, but Im not basing my actions on that. I dont judge people on how religious they are or aren't. If it makes them happy so be it.

 

[dr73]

I have a hard time with the Bible and the fact that everything was created in 6 days. I would have to say I am a Darwinist when it comes to the way things came to be. I feel one would have to be absurd not to believe in the theory of evolution. The facts are there and it is undeniable
The bible tells us how the world was made an science backs that up.(at least the order) Where is this proof of evolution you speak of? religion is a belief an god gives you the choose to believe or not. he left it up to us. plain an simple. :-offtopic it was horrible what we did to the native americans

 

[Plissken]

I voted atheist.

I just struggle with the basis of religion really. I like to make up my own mind, and not be told what to believe. It's just not for me. I do not believe in God, but conversely I've not closed my mind to proof or new speculation that He exists; I just want to make up my own mind. If God did indeed create us, He gave us minds powerful enough that we could make our own decisions.