Zigzag Pattern babies??

[ILoveGreen]

Hello everyone and thanks in advanced for any help or imput to how I got 2 babies with zigzag patterns from my Normal male and female Blizzard clutch this year. Last year(same parents) there was one Anery baby with an almost all white belly(just checks on the end of it's tail).

Here are the parents.......
Normal(male) and Blizzard(female)

Here are the 2 08 babies with the strange pattern....

and here is the 07 baby(same parents) with the white belly........

Do the parents have some hiden het or are these just freak mutations?

Thanks!

 

[ruggerboi]

I don't know enough about genetics to know what's going on, but the white belly on the last one is awesome! I don't think I've ever seen that before, though I am fairly new to corns.

 

[ILoveGreen]

I haven't seen it before either. But I did read about one like it in the Corn Snake Morph guide.
Thanks for the comment

 

[Cat_Eyed_Lady]

The little amel with the zig zaggy pattern is really awesome!! Not sure where you are in WI but I am too We might have to meet and compare zig zags some time

 

[ruggerboi]

Wow, that's odd, I'm in WI too. Go WI corn keepers! Woo!

 

[Msterry]

I love that amel that has some zig zag showing!

Did'nt the breeder say anything about what the parents were het for or where they perhaps het pet store ?

I sure do not know genetic's but it takes a charcoal and a amel to make a blizzard. That would account for some of the hets you are seeing.

Ck out Chuck Pritzels site he also is author of the Cornsnake Morph Guide. He also talks about genetic on there site. Plus he is in Wi and so am i.... lol

http://www.cccorns.com

 

[Susan]

The problem with the zigzag pattern is that the exact genetics that control it are unknown. I've been breeding zigzags for 10 years and all I know is that if you breed snakes with the pattern, you have a better chance of getting more and better patterned offspring. However, you do not need to have parents showing the pattern to produce it, it just helps the odds. Also, for some reason, the lavender gene has a higher frequency of producing the zigzag pattern.

 

[Nanci]

Paraphrased from Cornsnake Morph Guide:

Pattern cells start out in the area of the brain, then migrate in two groups, right side and left side, down to the tail. The cells then migrate down the sides toward the belly, and since the two sides of the belly are not connected yet, the cells do not move past the center line. Once in place, the cells move to expand their areas of color. There are four groups: saddles, side blotches, lower side blotches and belly checkers.

Normally, cells on one side of the center line match those on the other side in activity, producing symetry. The zigzag pattern could occur when a division on one side is not matched by the other side and the saddles become offset until another unmatched division occurs. This occurs randomly, as opposed to a single gene controlling where an offset would occur.

(Isn't developement amazing?)

 

[Talinea]

Hi!
Do you know the hets of the parents?

Since you got Anery & Snow offspring from these two, the parents should be (at least) Normal het. Anery, Amel and
Blizzard (= Charcoal + Amel) het. Anery
Right?
What morphs were the other hatchlings? (just curious )
I think it's interesting how many Charcoals carry hidden Anery-Hets (or Homs, by the way)

 

[ILoveGreen]

Did'nt the breeder say anything about what the parents were het for or where they perhaps het pet store ?

Msterry....I got the Normal male from a smaller local petshop (Tropical Oasis). The Blizzard I was given by a friend whos gf didn't want her anymore. They also bought her at the same pet store maybe a year later then I got my male. I was pretty new to Corn Snakes when I got my male as a tiny tiny baby so I didn't ask the hets then. I did go back to the pet store and ask if he knew anything(a year later) but he said he just sells them and didn't know anything. I should have asked who the breeder was but it wasn't that important to me at the time.

Since you got Anery & Snow offspring from these two, the parents should be (at least) Normal het. Anery, Amel and
Blizzard (= Charcoal + Amel) het. Anery
Right?
What morphs were the other hatchlings? (just curious )

You exactly right on what I thought the Parents were het for by what babies I got.

Here is the 07 baby lineup..
1 Snow (het Charcoal)
2 Amel (het Anery & Charcoal)
3 Amel
4 Normal (het Anery & Amel & Charcoal) (right?)
5 Anery (het Amel & Charcoal)
6 Amel
7 Amel
8 Snow
9 Anery
10 Anery (white belly)

Here is their 08 baby lineup..
1 Normal
2 Anery
3 Anery
4 Normal
5 Amel
6 Normal
7 Snow
8 Snow (some zigzag)
9 Snow
10 Amel (zigzag pattern)
11 Normal
12 Snow
13 Amel

Thanks Nacy For posting that part from the Morph Guide I think I've looked at my morph guide sooo much it scrabbled my brain!

The problem with the zigzag pattern is that the exact genetics that control it are unknown. I've been breeding zigzags for 10 years and all I know is that if you breed snakes with the pattern, you have a better chance of getting more and better patterned offspring. However, you do not need to have parents showing the pattern to produce it, it just helps the odds. Also, for some reason, the lavender gene has a higher frequency of producing the zigzag pattern.

I will be Keeping the zigzag babies for breeding then Susan! Thanks


ruggerboi, Cat_Eyed_Lady, Msterry....Thanks for the comments. It's so cool that you all live in WI too. Do you attend SewerFest Reptile show? Or any other reptile shows in WI? I'm in the right bottom Corner of WI (Kenosha)

 

[KJUN]

Well, nothing says that blizzard couldn't be at least a partial zigzag, right? I produced and estimated 40+ blizzards a year from zigzag parents. They are, of course, just sold as regular blizzards. I'm sure a LOT of other people due the same considering the number of amel and charcoal zigzags out there! ...not counting the number of normal patterned ones produced as full siblings to zigzags that are, well, just sold as normals, too. The genes are out there, and they pop up rather frequently.

Besides, none of this is a real surprise. It's like 2 short people having a tall kid. The genes combine in the right way, and you produce something odd. Tall people are more likely to produce tall kids, but this is NOT always true. Ditto with ZigZag. Plus, Zigzag seems to have been selected for in different ways, and some lines produce all normals whenever they are bred together. That's what makes working with ZigZags fun! If you bred motleys or stripes, you can predict the average outcome of a clutch. You can't do that with ZigZags!

Of course, that doesn't mean you can't selectively breed to increase the amount and pattern of "zig" and/or "zag" in a zigzag corn. Just hold your good babies back and breed them together to see what you have! You might get something even better...or all normals.
KJ

 

[ILoveGreen]

Thank you so much Kjun! I love how you put it so simple . This is my second clutch and I'm still learning....sometimes it can be an overload of genetic! I'll be keeping the Snow with the slight zigzag and the Amel with the zigzag pattern for breeding in the far future. Your babies are so adorable!! Thanks for posting the pics

 

[ruggerboi]

I do go to SewerFest, and was even looking into potentially vendoring there. I haven't really found any other shows worth going to. I'm not too far from you, over in Madison.

 

[ILoveGreen]

Very cool! Were you at the last SewerFest? I was thinking of maybe getting a table there too. I just might wait and sell my baby Corns there instead of shipping them out to people. I also have a huge box of moss that I need to sell because I'll never be able to use it all...I don't know what I was thinking when I ordered a 5lb box of sheet moss!
How old are you? What would you sell if you were a vender?
Have you been to the show near you in Manona (I think)? There is also a show in Lake County that we go to sometimes...I think they have it every month or so.

 

[ILoveGreen]

I think I wore a bright pink tanktop to the last Sewerfest haha so my boyfriend would be able to find me! He get's lost at the rock foc table.
He's a pic..(maybe at the next show you can say hi!) I'm in the pink of course and that's my boyfriend sitting next to me.

 

[ruggerboi]

SewerFest is an annual show right? If so, then yes. If I was to vend there, I would only have my one clutch of corns to sell, but I have a friend who was thinking about going in on a table with me. Turns out she might not be able to do that this year. I have been to the Monona show, but it's been getting smaller and smaller every time. Now there's only a few people who vend there, and I don't bother going. Kind of sad, really, as it's only about 10 min from where I live.

 

[Caryl]

Wow, what luck! Those are beautiful babies, ILoveGreen. I'd feel like I'd won the lottery if I hatched such pretty zigzags as a surprise. Congratulations!

 

[ILoveGreen]

Thankyou so much
I'm keeping the 2 with the zigzag pattern for sure!
I felt like I won the lottery last year when they hatched out an Anery with an almost all white belly......and it was my first clutch ever. No zigzags last year though.