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Some sage parenting advice needed

I am not a parent either, so feel free to disregard what I say if you believe it doesn't make sense.
But I do believe the grounding will get to her sometime soon, she'll grow tired of it and want to do other stuff again. Do not back off before she admits about the lying, but I guess you already know that.
I would just like to suggest that when she finally does own up to the truth, you make that experience as easy for her as possible. Meaning do not say something like "now was that so hard?" (because yes to her it is) or "I already knew you were lying to me" etc. Do not give her another lecture about lying at that time. Just smile and say something like "thank you for telling the truth, and the grounding ends here".
That way, confessing will be easier for her and may possibly be a little easier next time or the time after that.
I remember when I was young (not eight mind you, but kids seem to grow up quicker every year) the biggest problem for me was not the confessing in itself, but the *giving in* to somebody.
Like this it will be easier for her. I do not necessarily believe that she "deserves" it easy, but I think this way might have a litlle positive influence on her behavior.
You might want to talk to her again about truth and lie, but keep that for another time.
Make it easier for her now, and just maybe she'll make it easier for you on another occasion.
 
danielle said:
She only has this teacher because this is the only GT teacher for 3rd graders:( It is the same group of girls passing the notes and seats have already been moved with my daughter literally sitting right up front by the teachers desk, but obviously this isn't working. I personally can't stand her teacher and we have already clashed twice before. This is the first year I haven't adored her teacher or that my daughter has ever been in any trouble, but this year has been rough. My daughters hormones are definitely kicking into high gear. She has developed the eye rolling smart mouth posture of an early teen and has spent most of this year grounded. While I blame the teacher for my daughters poor test grade my daughter is responsible for behaving whether she or I like the teacher or not. This woman who is her teacher has a stink eye and nasty tone which drives me batty, but again in the real world whether you like or dislike someone you are expected to behave in a certain way period.

I'm a pretty relaxed parent, I talk to my kids, and am open minded. I ground for serious offenses and I know she is lying hoping to avoid getting in trouble but our home policy is if you make a mistake and are honest about it we simply discuss the situation. If you make a mistake and lie about it your in deep doodoo. So why lie?
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First off she's bright and knows it, so everything is going to be harder. She takes her cues from you. So if you don't care for the teacher she won't either, nor will she respect her. Note passing is disrespectful and the lying to you and the teacher is too. While I agree that some teachers are better than others, it is ultimately you daughter's job to be ready for tests and assignments. Teach her NOW to speak up if she doesn't feel ready for a test. Plus I'm sure she knew the test was coming up when she got back. She could/should have been preparing over the holiday. This is a tough one to swallow given she is only eight but it is never too early to learn self motivation. Learning is a proactive process. People are always going to expect more from you daughter because she is bright. Being smart does not mean you also are mature and have good social skills to match. My mother always said I should hope for a child of average intelligence because life was easier for everyone involved. lol Find a different punishment. Grounding obviously is not working. This is a hard one because you need to look deeply at your child's wants and needs and find a creative way to figuratively smack her upside her head. Example: My son had the bad habit of leaving his toys scattered all over the living room floor. I warned him that if he didn't pick them up and put them away he was going to lose them. He ignored the threat and subsequently came home to two trash bags of his stuff ready to be tossed. I gave him the opportunity to earn them back over the course of a month. At the end of that time they would truly be tossed. My husband was panicked that I was going to throw away hundreds of dollars worth of toys but the threat was made and I said I'd stick to it. Luckily he worked hard to get them back and we didn't have to toss much. The threat was real, the punishment was great and the result a happy one. I was lucky to have guessed he would be upset and motivated to fix the problem. Finding something to get her attention is going to be tough because she's smart and will look for ways around it, but grounding isn't doing it.
Your right that regardless of how awfully the teacher is, your daughter needs to find a way to work it out. It sucks but it's a good life lesson for her. We all have had teachers, bosses, neighbors, etc. that were less than stellar but we had to find a way to deal with them.
I feel your frustration. And the scary part is that it only gets worse! Middle school girls are tough customers. Mean to one another and everyone around them. Good luck and you know you always have a place to rant!:cheers:
Terri
 
What sort of chores does she have to do around the house? It seems that you've tried just about everything except physical labor. Let her know that since it seems that she is not interested in education and honesty anymore, then she might as well prepare for the real world which means getting a job and working for a living. She is required by law to go to school and cannot legally go out and get a job, but there is no law that prevents her from having to earn her meals and other things around the house. She needs to do dishes, laundry, yard work, cleaning, and if she runs out of stuff, there is always the digging of a hole in the back yard and then filling it in again, digging the hole, etc, etc, etc.

I get the eye-rolling and smart mouth from my kids, and they do try to lie to get away with things, but will give in and tell the truth when pressured the right way for each child. And doing chores will always illicit an attitude appropriate for children their age...eventually.
 
Wade, I think this is it too, but if I don't push her a little and expect her to try and be respectful what kind of message am I sending? I think if my parents had been stricter I would have worked harder and stayed out of trouble, but who knows. My mom says ignore it and act like I don't know and it will pass she's just strong natured. I just want her to be happy, do well, and stay out of trouble.
 
wade said:
One other thing I just have to point out. My daughter is 32 years old. I question my self every day about what I am doing and did with her.
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Don't beat yourself up too much; it doesn't always have anything to do with you. Sometimes, people are who they are and nothing you do can change that.

I don't have any sage parenting advice, danielle, so I'll keep my mouth shut. But I do wish you luck.
 
She still swears she's not lying,lol Our rule is truth gets no real punishment and lying gets the worst punishment. I told her I to have been guilty of passing a note so I am not really upset about that- its more the underlying reason for doing it and then lying. She has to put away her own laundry except for pants and shirts that are hung- she's too short to reach. She also dusts her room weekly, helps put away groceries, and is always is expected to clean up whatever she takes out. On a side note Terri I have done the toy thing to both of my kids,lol glad I'm not the only crazy mom.

She also doesn't know I dislike her teacher at all. I have had meetings twice with the teacher before bringing my daughter in to prevent this. The test in question was to be taken the Friday before christmas week and the kids turned in their review packets the Friday before. We got snow that weekend and consequently school was off with no way for the kids to get their review packets back and we didn't think the Monday back after three weeks off they would give a two day test. There is a retake already scheduled so I'm not so worried about that.

I think I like Susans labor idea. A little poop scooping here, dishes there, cleaning the bathrooms...maybe this will work. She's just sooooo stubborn and if she is always being punished I am afraid she will get worse. If I lay off I am afraid she'll think I accept this behavior.
 
BTW non parents ARE welcome to give advice- we've all been kids and thought our parents were sooo stupid.:
 
I’ve told my daughter a million times that the only think I care about is that she be happy and healthy.

I think Terri has made a good point too. If you have butted heads with this teacher your daughter knows it. If you question the teachers authority then you daughter will too. Looking back, my girl had a 4th grade teacher that I didn’t like and had problems with. I wish I had gone to the school and had her moved to a different class.
 
LOL Wade I think I have come up with an idea. I am calling her teacher in an hour to discuss this idea as well. As it is each kid is given a chart they fill out daily with things like came prepared, coooperated, follow class rules and so on. The kids each day must put an I for did so independently, L for needed leading to do so, and an N for not accomplished. At the end of the week the teacher collects them, makes their own comments, and sends them home to be signed by parent and child.

So I am going to ask the teacher to report daily instead of weekly. My daughter will continue to score herself and each day the teacher can do so as well. Each day she has a good day or at least scores herself honestly she will be ungrounded. Each day she has a bad day or gives herself an I instead of her usual earned L in cooperation and rule following she is grounded. Her privaledges will be up to HER daily...and not me. If she is honest about her shortcommings and/or does what she should she will not be punished and when she gives herself an undeserved score nd in fact was naughty she will be punished. Grounding will still be no fun, but now with extra poop cooping duty:)
 
I think there have been some great insights here!

The only advice I question is giving a teacher your full support if you don't agree with their methods.

When I was a kid, my father sometimes supported the teacher, if he thought they were right. But once when the teacher said the whole class would have detention because of a couple of kids making problems, my dad called and said I would NOT be staying for it. I felt really special, and vindicated, since I had not caused the problem. Some kids' parents would always agree with the teacher, no matter what. But I knew my dad would look at the situation and back ME, if warranted. Of course, that might be why I now look at authority figures askance when they do their usual corruption, and why I am so disgusted with our government, so maybe it was not the right thing to do, after all, lol!

Maybe it would be better to discuss the teacher situation with her in more realistic terms, since she sounds bright enough to discern your dislike of the teaching methods without you elaborating on the subject. You could tell her that you agree with her that some of the methods are counterproductive, and discuss why. And then tell her that she is smart enough to learn that sometimes we have to just deal with the situation if we can't change it. And that you will give her kudos if she is mature enough to deal with it in a productive manner.

The only suggestion that I haven't seen (sorry if I missed it someplace) is to see if you can find an uninvolved, sympathetic adult with whom she can feel a link to, and can communicate with. Maybe it could be a sports coach, or a young adult relative or friend of the family. Or maybe a teacher she gets along with. If she can find the right person, she might be able to communicate what is truly bothering her, and to say things she feels she can't say to mom at this point. The adult could even ask her permission to record the conversation, saying that mom really wants to understand her better, and that mom understands that it can be difficult to say everything she wants to, directly to mom.

Kids may roll their eyes and act like they don't care. But if they truly believe that their parents really do care about, and love them, it does make a difference to them. And if they see a parent really go out of their way to find a solution, it does register, although maybe only on a subconscious level during the time it is actually happening.

Good luck - I think you deserve some!
 
Sounds like a good plan Danielle. I hope it works for you.

We can always fall back on the Chinese method.
 
I'm also not a wise parent (no kids yet) but I can account for the kid portion of this. When I was in school my mother was an instructional assistant at the school, so if I got in trouble she would find out about it before the end of the day. I always felt so horrible for doing something bad I usually didn't do it again. In this case, it seems to me like your daughter would like a bit more time to play or hang out with her friends. Perhaps she is feeling a little stressed by her advancing knowledge. Psychologically, there is punishment and reward, but sometimes the punishment should be pared with a reward. For example, she is grounded. Tell her that each day/week she doesn't pass notes in class then she can go out and play that day / or have a slumber party that weekend. I don't know everything about your relationship with your daughter, I just know that I wish my mother would have talked with me about things that were bothering me. Especially when I got older, I could never ask for advice on something cause I was afraid I would get reprimanded for it. So maybe while she's in the house ask her if she would like to bake some cookies or do some other project with you. Mother daughter time is so special, life isn't all about school. I'm sure you can teach her things no one is a classroom can, about life love and family. I hope everything gets better. Take care.
 
My daughter and I are as open as they come. We talk about menstration at the dinner table, told her the truth about sex when she asked me, and always tell her the truth about anything she's ever asked even when its a little cliche. I like Kathy's idea about her having a older friend to confide in. As close as we are I'm sure theres plenty she doesn't tell me,lol She really likes my neighbor who we spend a lot of time with so maybe those two should go out to dinner while I watch our children for some girly non mom time. She definitely wants less work and more play and I get that. Each night they have to read 3 chapters of a book of their choice and write 2 pararaphs about it, have vocab and spelling HW, and math- this takes her 3 hrs. at least. By then its time for dinner, showers, and bedtime with little free time for her. Part of being a kid is getting to act like one and that is lacking Mon-Thurs. However, even the regular third grade has this much HW so bumping her down wouldn't solve this in whole. I hve discussed this with her teacher, but she doesn't chose the curiculum she just teaches it:( I told her this morning when I dropped her off to think about being open with me when she got home...hopefully she spills and shows me an ounce of integrity is in there- it sure used to be.
 
LOL Wade I'm not going over the birds and bees with you, but when she asked I told her why and what it was:)
 
I think your idea about daily reports, and daily "carrot and stick" consequences, is great! Even smart kids at that age find it difficult to act in accordance with a FUTURE reward or punishment. Heck, people in their 50s sometimes have difficulty with that, too! Immediacy is great!

I watch Dr. Phil a lot, and I have been amazed at times what happens when he separately interviews kids having problems with their parents. Even as a total stranger, he often gets them to open up and say things that stun their parents. Of course, he has special training as a psychologist. But I think an adult friend with some common sense and some kid experience might accomplish the same thing, in many cases. It might be more difficult for her to open up to you about some feelings ABOUT YOU, than to discuss something like sex, with you. But she might be able to do so with the friend you mentioned. You might even be surprised by some things she has to say.

I hear a lot about kids being over scheduled these days, and it rings true. Maybe you could help to counteract that with as much unscheduled play time as possible on the weekends. Maybe a mix between "mom and kid time", and "just friends time".

The good thing is that, in my experience, most of the time when parents are truly involved and spend time with their kids, they usually manage to get over these humps, as difficult as they are at the time. Hope the sailing gets a lot smoother for you - soon!
 
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