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New snake (corn vs. bull vs. other)

vliberatore

vliberatore

New member
Hey everyone,

So I've had my 2011 amel for about 4.5 months now and I'm thinking about getting another slithery friend. I've had a number of snakes in the past (garter, as well as 3 cali kings) so I'm not exactly a beginner, but I'd like to keep the snake relatively low maintenance and simple. Also, I'm not looking to breed, so different morphs/hets don't mean anything to me, as long as the snake looks cool. I get the same benefit out of a $10 snake as I would a $1000 snake. Not going to cohab, so don't worry.

So that being said, I've been thinking about getting another corn (normal Miami/Okeetee, or anery) or maybe a bullsnake (I know they can be loud, but from what I understand they're all show). Anyone have much experience with bullsnakes that can give me some adivce? Any other ideas?

Thank you!
 
vliberatore said:
Hey everyone,

So I've had my 2011 amel for about 4.5 months now and I'm thinking about getting another slithery friend. I've had a number of snakes in the past (garter, as well as 3 cali kings) so I'm not exactly a beginner, but I'd like to keep the snake relatively low maintenance and simple. Also, I'm not looking to breed, so different morphs/hets don't mean anything to me, as long as the snake looks cool. I get the same benefit out of a $10 snake as I would a $1000 snake. Not going to cohab, so don't worry.

So that being said, I've been thinking about getting another corn (normal Miami/Okeetee, or anery) or maybe a bullsnake (I know they can be loud, but from what I understand they're all show). Anyone have much experience with bullsnakes that can give me some adivce? Any other ideas?

Thank you!
Click to expand...
I've only dealt with a couple bullsnakes, but I have a fair amount of experience with gophersnakes(same genus). Yes, they are loud and full of attitude. Yes, it is mostly show. Be aware of a couple things...

First of all, it isn't ALL show. These snakes can, will, and do bite and defend themselves pretty aggressively when pushed. They have very large teeth, and tremendous jaw strength, and leave quite a good bite, even as youngsters.

They also get fairly large. Compared to a cornsnake, or even a Cali king, these guys are monstrous. 6-7feet in length is very common, and at least twice as thick as your biggest cornsnake. They require large cages, large prey, and lots of care when handling.

Snakes of the Pituophis genus can be incredibly entertaining to keep, however, if you expect them to be as calm and docile as the average cornsnake, you will be disappointed. These snakes are not really for the "faint of heart". Yes, they are harmless colubrids. But they are large, eat large prey(which means big teeth), and they do not hesitate to defend themselves, which means there is a very high probability that you will get bitten...probably fairly regularly...at least more regularly then with a cornsnake.

Good luck!
 
Thanks for the response.

I've been bitten quite a few times by them in the wild, so I know what you're talking about. I have heard about adults mellowing out in captivity though. I guess that could be true of any snake.

I'm assuming a 40g breeder sized viv would be about the right size?
 
vliberatore said:
Thanks for the response.

I've been bitten quite a few times by them in the wild, so I know what you're talking about. I have heard about adults mellowing out in captivity though. I guess that could be true of any snake.

I'm assuming a 40g breeder sized viv would be about the right size?
Click to expand...

Yea, most snakes will "mellow out" in captivity, as long as they readily adapt to the conditions. Something like that is more about the individual than the species, in my experience.

And yea, a 40g breeder would be an appropriate size for an adult Pituophis.
 
vliberatore said:
Also, I am open to other snakes. I'll consider any suggestions.
Click to expand...

Florida Kings are easily my favorite species. Big, strong, powerful eaters, and generally quite docile. They can also be kept in identical conditions to corns, though you may want a slightly larger cage.
 
I would suggest reading up on the following:

1- Honduran milksnakes. Get quite large, very vivid colors in affordable morphs.

2- Thayeri Kingsnake (AKA Variable Kingsnake). - small, very docile jewels.

3- Leucistic Texas Ratsnake/White sided Ratsnake... look awesome, quite affordable... a bit smaller than Gophers/Bulls.

And of course... get out of colubrids altogether and go for a Nicaragua Boa Constrictor Imperator- remain small, and are a Boa... which is the most awesome species -ever- :)
 
I wouldn't say they'd mellow out. They will tolerate handling, but only up to a point and then become aggressive. You can handle them, but not for hours on end like a corn.
 
I have Corns, Rats, Kings, Gophers, Pines and Bulls
and YES they do mellow with age and handling..
(I handle mine regularly for 30+ minutes at a time)
As Chris said they will hiss and can have a healthy bite.
All of my Pits are voracious eaters so dont get a hand in the way. LOL
Pits are usually cage protective but are sweethearts once out
in your hands.
My largest snakes are a Hybino Sonoran Gopher, An Albino Southern Pine
and a Normal Bull..
My largest corn is dwarfed by these animals..
I started with Corns but have fallen hard for the
wonderful world of Pituophis!
 
AliCat37 said:
I wouldn't say they'd mellow out. They will tolerate handling, but only up to a point and then become aggressive. You can handle them, but not for hours on end like a corn.
Click to expand...
This will vary greatly from individual to individual dependent upon a wide variety of factors including, but not limited to; length of time in captivity, feeding schedule, size, age, amount of handling, and independent variables such as attitude and innate aggression. Some are more tolerant than others. Some "mellow out" more readily than others. Some adapt very well to a captive environment while others don't. These are individual attributes that can vary greatly even between CB siblings.

I've picked up 6' gophersnakes out of the road and handled them as though they were freshly hatched CB babies, with nary a hiss or stutter. I've handled CB hatchlings that were uber defensive, and not only hissed incessantly, but struck repeatedly, bit, and constricted my fingers. That's one of the most beautiful and intriguing things about Pituophis. You just never know...
 
I've caught plenty of bull snakes, one in particular was extraordinarily sweet and acted like a corn when I was holding him. Another bull from the same house was so hissy and bitey that the family that lived there nearly killed it before we got there to remove it. They do vary greatly, and the cage aggression thing is something I will atest to from my old pine snake. She was absolutely a mess when in her cage, but after working with her for a while she ended up being very sweet.
 
I respectively disagree with the whole bull snakes are more agressive than other snakes like a corn. I have two of them and they are as tame as ball pythons. I have held them for hours at a time without any problems. I occasionaly get hissed at but they are all bark and no bite. The first snake that ever bit me was a cornsnake. I really think people mistake the whole hissing thing for agression. Atleast they let you know when they are nervous. Other snakes would just bite instead. I think you can expect them to be as tame as any corn snake or ball python with frequent handling. I think the same rules apply for all snakes
 
Goopyguy said:
I respectively disagree with the whole bull snakes are more agressive than other snakes like a corn. I have two of them and they are as tame as ball pythons. I have held them for hours at a time without any problems. I occasionaly get hissed at but they are all bark and no bite. The first snake that ever bit me was a cornsnake. I really think people mistake the whole hissing thing for agression. At least they let you know when they are nervous. Other snakes would just bite instead. I think you can expect them to be as tame as any corn snake or ball python with frequent handling. I think the same rules apply for all snakes
Click to expand...

2 Pituophis does not make a consensus. I have dealt with literally hundreds of P. c. deserticola and a few other Pituophis subspecies, and I can say that their attitudes are as individual to each snake as those found in humans. Some are incredibly sweet and tolerant, some are incredibly defensive and bitey. Most fall somewhere in the middle, giving off a lot of huff and puff, but very little bite.

The facts are...they are larger, they require larger caging, and larger prey. Size alone should indicate more care when handling.

"More aggressive" is a relative term. I don't really consider ANY species "aggressive". If you leave them alone, they leave you alone. They certainly don't seek out confrontation from people, so it isn't really within the definition of "aggressive". However, snakes in the genus Pituophis DO tend to be a fair bit more defensive of their personal space, as a general observation...
 
Thats a really good point and I can really only speak for the two pituophis I have and my experience compared to other snakes. I really think all snakes vary by temperement on an individual level and I don't buy into the notion that pituophis are in anyway naturally more inclined to bite than corn snakes and have talked to many others who agree with me on this. A bite from a large pitophis is gonna pack a bigger punch than a corn snake but it's still not gonna be a big deal. Ive been bit by large boas and have had some buddies get bit by huge bermese pythons and even those didn't require any special care. The largest pituophis isn't capable of sending anyone to the hospital.
 
I have several Pits and have many that are puppy dog tame
some just hiss and try to be intimidating and a couple will actually bite
I love all of my Pits!

Tyflier is the bomb! Chris knows his stuff!
 
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