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Occupy Wall Street protest

This day and Age, water means nothing. There are amazing ships, planes... water is not an issue, trust me. Especially when all it takes is an Airborne Agent to be released to start that war. And it take only 1 person/ 1 UAV Drone to do it.

But moving troops and equipment without a landing or mooring site means an amphibious assault. And THAT'S what I'm talking about. Yeah, there's tons of transport options, but you can't offload a massive transport ship without a port and you can't offload heavy equipment from a transport plane without a runway.

Any invading force would have to capture enough territory with amphibious troops in order to bring in the rest. A UAV or a lone agent or even an entire carrier battle group cannot take territory. You have to have troops on the ground to do that.

Canada has been at way several times in the past century, but not since 1812 have we actually fought on our own soil.
 
Favorited.
Looks like she, and others, have many similar vids on YouTube. Yay.

Although, I agree in sentiment that people are frustrated with years of "stuff" to be frustrated about. Seriously.
Even those who cannot articulate it.
Although, I think one should be able to say in clear words what one is thronging and mobbing and protesting and clogging up the streets about.
Otherwise I am reminded of the soliloquy in Macbeth.....

Note, Goethe believed that the french revolution (before, during, and after) was intrinsically of little to no longterm merit and destined to little to no longterm true "success".
He believed in rule by monarchs and intellectuals, and he claimed to be an atheist. Although I think he maybe was just saying that (about being an atheist). He was really a very nice guy.
Point being...quoting anyone, even the loftiest thinkers, can be taking things out of context...in good as well as bad ways.
And for good as well as bad purposes.
 
So people are making plans for the winter occupation. Scouting indoor venues, exploring cold weather housing. What is this supposed to prove again? They're disgruntled by the current state of affairs? Join the club.
 
Wait, so what's the alternative? That video offers nothing as an alternative. It simply claims that taxes are slavery.

So....no taxes then? What's to become of your glorious military-industrial complex?

AND that was a ridiculously simplistic view of currency. It's a well known fact that money has no intrinsic value and moving off the gold standard was a good thing, not a bad thing.

Honestly, I'm not even sure what the video was really about. It was vague, uninformed and offered absolutely no solutions to anything.

I did like the Stand Alone Complex theme at the end, though. :) Such a good theme.
 
AND that was a ridiculously simplistic view of currency. It's a well known fact that money has no intrinsic value and moving off the gold standard was a good thing, not a bad thing.

Seriously? Having a currency that is NOT backed by anything of real value, and can be created out of thin air at the whim of government is a GOOD thing? Yeah, right.....

That's what has gotten us into the predicament that we are now in. Inflation is ruining our savings because our money gets worth less with every new trillion $$ that gets run through the printing presses. People who happen to have jobs cannot get raises fast enough or big enough to keep up with the increases in prices due to inflation. The US dollar is becoming worthless on the world market because there IS no intrinsic value beyond what our government SAYS it is worth. The dollar is not backed by anything other than the promises of our government that it is worth SOMETHING. So obviously that belief system is breaking down rapidly as more and more people see the writing on the wall. If you have a currency backed solely by everyone's trust in the government, and everyone loses that trust based on their obviously unsound spending practices, what do you have left as far as actual VALUE of that currency?

A government just cannot keep spending money it does not have and is unlikely to get. A government cannot borrow money that it will likely never be able to repay. A government cannot just wildly print up money when there is no physical collateral value to that currency. At least not if that country expects to survive that BIG bubble that HAS to burst. Quite frankly, our government is spinning us down the hopper into bankruptcy. By any definition of the word our country is already insolvent, and any business in a similar condition would be declared bankrupt.

In my opinion, our fiscal troubles STARTED when we went off the gold standard and made the creation of the money supply subject to merely the whim of our elected officials. It gave them the POWER to spend money they didn't have because there was no restriction whatsoever on that other than the slim possibility that our representatives THEMSELVES would vote for their own limitations on spending. Yeah, like THAT would happen....
 
Except that this didn't start with moving off the gold standard. In fact, even using the gold standard, the world went into the Great Depression when people lost faith in the currency.

So backing it with something tangible changes nothing.
 
Except that this didn't start with moving off the gold standard. In fact, even using the gold standard, the world went into the Great Depression when people lost faith in the currency.

So backing it with something tangible changes nothing.

Apples and oranges.

The great depression began (by most accounts I have read) with the collapse of the stock market. Then the drought of the mid 20s pretty much wiped out the midwest. People simply stopped spending money because jobs had evaporated, not anything to do with failure of their faith in the currency. Apparently, people lost faith in STOCKS and their ability to EARN money as jobs vanished, not in the currency itself.
 
BTW, what year was it when President Roosevelt outlawed the private ownership of gold except for the purposes of jewelry? Any relation to the great depression, at all, hmmm?
 
BTW, what year was it when President Roosevelt outlawed the private ownership of gold except for the purposes of jewelry? Any relation to the great depression, at all, hmmm?

In that the depression started 4 years before the executive order, yes.
 
In that the depression started 4 years before the executive order, yes.

Do you think, perhaps, that this event may have PROLONGED the depression at all? Suppose all of you assets were tied up in gold. How would this have affected your net worth to suddenly find out that all of your hoped for liquid assets were now ILLEGAL to own and you were required to turn in your gold at a 40 percent reduction in actual value?

In a way, you are right about loss of faith of paper money preceeding the dropping of the gold standard, and the reason for outlawing gold was because people were trading in their paper money for actual gold and were depleting the US treasury of their gold stocks. But in my opinion, the cure was much worse than the disease. Without ANY backing of our currency, this opened up the flood gates for NO basis of actual value of money. Since the government could print up as much money as it wanted, because there was nothing to limit that process, then they effectively handed themselves an unlimited supply of blank checks to use as they pleased. THIS is the problem that began with the removal of the gold standard behind out currency. And has been without any shred of doubt, the leading cause of the incredible inflationary destruction of the buying power of our money in the intervening years. Look at what a loaf of bred or gallon of milk cost in 1935 and what it costs today. Those products didn't get that much more expensive. The VALUE of our money just got that much less over that time period.
 
Do you think, perhaps, that this event may have PROLONGED the depression at all? Suppose all of you assets were tied up in gold. How would this have affected your net worth to suddenly find out that all of your hoped for liquid assets were now ILLEGAL to own and you were required to turn in your gold at a 40 percent reduction in actual value?

If by 40% reduction you mean nearly doubling:

Executive Order 6102 made all privately held gold of American citizens was to be sold to the U.S. Treasury and the price raised from $20 to $35 per ounce.[76] Exceptions were made for jewelers, coin collectors and a few others. The goal was to counter the deflation which was paralyzing the economy.

In a way, you are right about loss of faith of paper money preceeding the dropping of the gold standard, and the reason for outlawing gold was because people were trading in their paper money for actual gold and were depleting the US treasury of their gold stocks. But in my opinion, the cure was much worse than the disease. Without ANY backing of our currency, this opened up the flood gates for NO basis of actual value of money. Since the government could print up as much money as it wanted, because there was nothing to limit that process, then they effectively handed themselves an unlimited supply of blank checks to use as they pleased. THIS is the problem that began with the removal of the gold standard behind out currency. And has been without any shred of doubt, the leading cause of the incredible inflationary destruction of the buying power of our money in the intervening years. Look at what a loaf of bred or gallon of milk cost in 1935 and what it costs today. Those products didn't get that much more expensive. The VALUE of our money just got that much less over that time period.

Without any shred of doubt? Well I doubt it. I doubt it very strongly considering in the intervening years, all of North America enjoyed the strongest economic growth ever and that before the credit crisis, the quality of life in America was better than it had ever been.

What makes you think dropping the gold standard really caused all this? I see you jumping from 'no gold standard' to 'government spending money like crazy' without anything in between to really explain how the two are linked, or even if the second is really all that true.
 
If by 40% reduction you mean nearly doubling:

Duh... If something that was actually worth $20 in gold suddenly becomes worth $35 in PAPER money, what does THAT tell you about the value of the paper money? So tell me, what does the fact that gold back then was worth $35 per ounce and is NOW worth $1,744 tell you about inflation? Anything?

Without any shred of doubt? Well I doubt it. I doubt it very strongly considering in the intervening years, all of North America enjoyed the strongest economic growth ever and that before the credit crisis, the quality of life in America was better than it had ever been.

What makes you think dropping the gold standard really caused all this? I see you jumping from 'no gold standard' to 'government spending money like crazy' without anything in between to really explain how the two are linked, or even if the second is really all that true.

Yeah, things always look pretty darn rosy while the bubble is growing, and especially right before the burst.

Still, the fact of the matter is that your money is worth much less than it's face value compared to even 20 years ago. You brought the Great Depression into the discussion, which although does seem to be involved, either directly or indirectly, with the results of the devaluation of the dollar as a promisory note from the government, isn't really the beginning point of the government's design to disassociate the dollar from a direct exchange of something of REAL value that would determine the total supply of money available for them to spend and circulate into the economy.

Quality of life now has nothing at all to do with the discussion. It is the concern for the future because of impending hyperinflation because of this issue of fiat money that is the crux of the matter.

Perhaps the following quote might be instructive to some interested readers:

Economic Liberty and the Constitution, Part 10
by Jacob G. Hornberger, March 2003

An analysis of the Gold Clause Cases, decided by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1934, necessitates a brief discussion of the Legal Tender Cases, which decided the constitutionality of the legal-tender laws enacted by the Lincoln administration during the Civil War.

To finance the war against the Confederacy, Lincoln resorted to the standard method used by rulers throughout history when faced with tax revolts from the citizenry: he began inflating the currency. That meant simply cranking up the printing presses and printing up enormous quantities of paper money and using it to purchase the goods and services needed for the war effort.

At that time, Americans were accustomed to carrying gold and silver coins in their pockets because that was the medium of exchange that our ancestors had established for the American people. Everyone at that time understood that the government’s bills and notes were simply evidence of indebtedness — that is, they were promises to pay gold and silver coin. Thus, whenever someone wanted to redeem the note for the coin, the government would honor it.

Once Lincoln resorted to the printing presses to finance the war effort, however, the bills and notes began trading at a discount. For example, let’s assume that something is priced at $100 (in gold coin), and the government has been inflating its notes. When someone attempts to purchase the item, the merchant might require payment of a $100 note plus a bit more, to take into consideration the possibility that the government could default.

Lincoln’s and Congress’s response was a legal-tender law, which required people to accept the government’s bills and notes at face value, regardless of how many were being depreciated.

In Hepburn v. Griswold, the Supreme Court held the legal-tender law to be unconstitutional. The Court pointed out that under the Constitution, while the federal government had the power to borrow money through the issuance of bills and notes, it had not been given the power to issue paper money or to make its bills and notes legal tender.

Within less than a year, however, two new justices were appointed to the Court. In one of the most shameful acts in the Supreme Court history, the new majority voted to overrule Hepburn v. Griswold. In Knox v. Lee and subsequent decisions, it became the settled law of the land that the U.S. government had the power to issue paper money and enact legal-tender laws.

Justice Stephen J. Field, who had been a fountainhead for constitutional principles dealing with economic liberty (see “Economic Liberty and the Constitution, Part 5,” Freedom Daily, October 2002), stated the following in voting against the constitutionality of the legal-tender laws:

The power to commit violence, perpetrate injustice, take private property by force without compensation to the owner, and compel the receipt of promises to pay in place of money, may be exercised, as it often has been, by irresponsible authority, but it cannot be considered as belonging to a government founded upon law . . ..

From the decision of the Court I see only evil likely to follow.


Gold owners as criminals

The evil which Field predicted came into full force during the Franklin Roosevelt administration. In the midst of his New Deal, the federal government committed one of the most heinous acts in history when it nationalized gold in the United States and declared it a felony for any American to own gold in the future. Americans were required to turn their gold in to the federal government and receive in return the federal government’s paper money, which the government had recently devalued.

Today, given that many people believe that the federal government should have the omnipotent power to control and regulate people’s economic activities and their possessions, that might not come as such a surprise.

In the early 1930s, however, that the federal government could do what socialist and communist governments were doing in Germany, Italy, and the Soviet Union came as a mighty shock to many people’s understanding of America’s heritage of private property and economic liberty. At that time, many Americans still believed in Americanism — in the principle that a person’s possessions were his and that the government could not arbitrarily take them away, as governments were doing in Nazi Germany, fascist Italy, and the communist Soviet Union.

Moreover, not only was gold ownership declared illegal, the government went one step further: it nullified all “gold clauses,” both in private and government contracts.


The gold clauses

What were the gold clauses? Their purpose was to protect the parties to a contract from government depreciation of the currency, as Lincoln had done during the Civil War and, for that matter, as governments throughout history had done when given power to control their nation’s economic system.

Keep in mind that there was one big reason that our Founders and ancestors had made gold and silver coin their official medium of exchange — to protect themselves and their successors from government’s plundering and looting them through inflation. And make no mistake about it: unlike many Americans today who honestly believe that inflation is some mysterious disease that afflicts nations from time to time, or that it is caused by greedy businessmen, early Americans had a very clear understanding of the problem; they knew that inflation had one and only one root — government — and specifically the propensity of public officials to secretly and surreptitiously tax the citizenry through the issuance of depreciated currency.

That’s the reason that the Constitution did not give the federal government the power to make paper money legal tender. It’s also the reason that the Constitution expressly prohibited the state governments from making anything but gold and silver coin legal tender.

Thus, creditors, especially the owners of long-term bonds (e.g., 100-year railroad bonds ), needed a way to protect themselves from the possibility of inflation, especially after the Supreme Court had upheld what Lincoln had done with his legal-tender laws. For example, suppose someone lends a railroad $100,000, with interest payable annually and principal payable in 100 years. How does the lender ensure that he (or his heirs) is not paid back in depreciated currency?

The answer: a gold clause in the contract. Gold clauses would provide that since the lender was delivering $100,000, the borrower would have to repay the loan using the same measure of “dollar” in effect when the loan was entered into. For example, let’s say that when the loan was entered into, a U.S. “dollar” was defined as a gold coin containing two grams of gold. Later, let’s say that the government depreciated the currency by declaring that a U.S. “dollar” now contained only 1.5 grams of gold. The debtor would have to use the earlier measure when he repaid the loan, rather than the depreciated measure.

FDR and his statist and socialist cronies went much further than that, however. Rather than simply reducing the gold content in the U.S. dollar (as kings had done throughout history) and rather than simply making the federal government’s bills and notes legal tender, the federal government went much further down the road that Nazi Germany, fascist Italy, and the communist Soviet Union were traveling.

By confiscating gold, making gold ownership illegal, and making its bills and notes irredeemable (in terms of what they had promised to pay), the federal government was doing its best to ensure that the American people could never protect themselves from the government’s ability to plunder and loot them through the Federal Reserve System’s inflationary policies.

Thus the federal government would be unshackled in its quest to go on a perpetual spending spree, promising the people unlimited welfare benefits, and all for “free,” because as government continually used depreciated currency to pay for all the goodies, the American people would continue to believe that inflation was some mysterious disease whose cause was unknown or one caused by the greed and rapaciousness of private businessmen.

There was only one obstacle standing in their way: the gold clauses that had been inserted into both private and federal loan agreements … and the U.S. Constitution, which did not give the federal government the power to destroy contracts, either private or public.


The Court’s decision

The Gold Clause Cases actually involved three separate cases, all of which were decided at the same time: Norman v. Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Co., Nortz v. United States, and Perry v. United States.

In a 5-4 decision, the Court upheld the nullification of the gold clauses in all private contracts. What was the Court’s reasoning? Essentially, it said that since the Constitution gives the federal government the power to establish a monetary system, the exercise of that power in the interests of society trumps the interests of private individuals to protect themselves from depreciated currency.

Where did the majority find such a power in the Constitution? The Court held that by giving the federal government the power to borrow money, along with the power to coin money and regulate the value thereof, it was obvious that the Framers were actually giving the government the power to establish a monetary system, even one entailing the issuance of irredeemable notes, legal-tender laws, gold confiscation, criminalization of gold ownership, and nullification of gold clauses in private contracts.

The majority had somewhat of a more difficult problem justifying the nullification of the gold clauses in instruments of indebtednesses. After all, it would be an odd Constitution that would give the government the power to borrow money and then allow it to default on the contract through repayment in depreciated currency. The majority agreed that the federal government’s gold clauses had to be honored but then held that since gold was now illegal to own in the United States, the bondholder hadn’t really suffered any damages.

In the dissent were the Four Horsemen — George Sutherland, Willis Van Devanter, Pierce Butler, and James McReynolds — who were clear and direct with respect to what Roosevelt and the Congress were doing:

Just men regard repudiation and spoliation of citizens by their sovereign with abhorrence; but we are asked to affirm that the Constitution has granted power to accomplish both. No definite delegation of such a power exists; and we cannot believe the farseeing framers, who labored with hope of establishing justice and securing the blessings of liberty, intended that the expected government should have authority to annihilate its own obligations and destroy the very rights which they were endeavoring to protect. Not only is there no permission for such actions; they are inhibited. And no plenitude of words can conform them to our charter.

The dissent then proceeded to explain the purpose of gold clauses, a purpose that the majority conceded:

By the so-called gold clause — promise to pay in “United States gold coin of the present standard of value,” or “of or equal to the present standard of weight and fineness” — found in very many private and public obligations, the creditor agrees to accept and the debtor undertakes to return the thing loaned or its equivalent. Thereby each secures protection, one against decrease in value of the currency, the other against an increase.

The clause is not new or obscure or discolored by any sinister purpose. For more than 100 years our citizens have employed a like agreement….

The gold clauses in no substantial way interfered with the power of coining money or regulating its value or providing an uniform currency. Their existence, as with many other circumstances, might have circumscribed the effect of its intended depreciation and disclosed the unwisdom of it. But they did not prevent the exercise of any granted power. They were not inconsistent with any policy theretofore declared. To assert the contrary is not enough. The Court must be able to see the appropriateness of the thing done before it can be permitted to destroy lawful agreements. The purpose of a statute is not determined by mere recitals — certainly they are not conclusive evidence of the facts stated.

... This statute does not “work harm and loss to individuals indirectly,” it destroys directly. Such interference violates the Fifth Amendment; there is no provision for compensation. If the destruction is said to be for the public benefit proper compensation is essential; if for private benefit the due process clause bars the way.

Thus the dissenters pointed out the obvious: not only did FDR and the Congress not have the constitutional power to nullify the gold clauses, the gold clauses themselves did not interfere with any monetary power that the Constitution gave the federal government.

The dissenters also addressed the federal government’s repudiation of its own bonds and gold certificates:

Congress may coin money; also it may borrow money. Neither power may be exercised so as to destroy the other; the two clauses must be so construed as to give effect to each. Valid contracts to repay money borrowed cannot be destroyed by exercising power under the coinage provision.

The dissent also addressed the majority’s point that damages could not be assessed because of the prohibition on owning gold:

Congress brought about the conditions in respect of gold which existed when the obligation matured. Having made payment in this metal impossible the government cannot defend by saying that if the obligation had been met the creditor could not have retained the gold; consequently he suffered no damage because of the nondelivery. Obligations cannot be legally avoided by prohibiting the creditor from receiving the thing promised. The promise was to pay in gold, standard of 1900, otherwise to discharge the debt by paying the value of the thing promised in currency. One of these things was not prohibited. The government may not escape the obligation of making good the loss incident to the repudiation by prohibiting the holding of gold. Payment by fiat of any kind is beyond its recognized power. There would be no serious difficulty in estimating the value of 25.8 grains of gold in the currency now in circulation. These [U.S. government] bonds are held by men and women in many parts of the world; they have relied upon our honor. Thousands of our own citizens of every degree not doubting the good faith of their sovereign have purchased them….

These words of Alexander Hamilton ought not to be forgotten: “When a government enters into a contract with an individual, it deposes, as to the matter of the contract, its constitutional authority, and exchanges the character of legislator for that of a moral agent, with the same rights and obligations as an individual.”

Finally, the dissent pointed out how the federal government had used its powers to enrich itself:

Under the challenged statutes it is said the United States have realized profits amounting to $2,800,000,000. But this assumes that gain may be generated by legislative fiat. To such counterfeit profits there would be no limit; with each new debasement of the dollar they would expand. Two billions might be ballooned indefinitely — to twenty, thirty, or what you will.

Loss of reputation for honorable dealing will bring us unending humiliation; the impending legal and moral chaos is appalling.

With the ruling in the Gold Clause Cases, the final obstacle in the path of the power of the federal government to plunder and loot the people through debasement of their currency by the central monetary authority known as the Federal Reserve System had been overcome. FDR and his collectivist associates, both in the executive and legislative branches, had won another big one in transforming American society in a revolutionary way.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0303a.asp
 
I'm not sure we're going to get much farther, Rich. I get your perspective - very, very libertarian. The ideas in the video you posted and the article you quoted resonate with you because they are similar to your own belief structure.

However, both the video and that article have a tenuous grasp on economics. Inflation isn't some evil scheme to keep the people down. Inflation is the result of a growing economy. Deflation happens all the time in nations whose economies are faltering. Japan experienced deflation during the years when their economy stagnated. Inflation accelerates during times of wealth and low unemployment. As more people find themselves with more money, demand goes up. Supply is finite and as a result, prices rise. Since the poor today are better off than they were a hundred years ago, the price of just about everything rises since not only can they afford more, but the middle classes and the wealthy are also able to purchase more expensive items.

The free market that libertarians want to keep completely unfettered and unregulated is the driving force behind inflation. It's not a bad thing necessarily, if kept reasonable. That's why interest rates are controlled so precisely - higher interest rates lowers the money supply, which lowers inflation. In an economic downturn, interest rates are lowered to encourage people to borrow in order to purchase items like houses, cars, etc. This helps to keep the economy positive.

With the idea that the government taking private property by force being inherently evil, it's not. If the government could not ever claim private property there is no such thing as eminent domain. Without eminent domain, the services and infrastructure that drive the economy would not be possible to be built. How does a municipal government expand a road if no one who owns the property beside the road will sell? Well, they don't. I guess that's fine for the libertarian point of view, but without infrastructure, how do growing cities stay economically healthy?

The problem I've always had with extreme libertarianism is that I've always felt like the ideas haven't been thought through. Everything sounds good - Free market! No taxes! Yay! But the problem is that whenever I follow the line of thinking to its logical conclusion, I keep seeing societal and/or economic collapse as the result.

Besides, the US does not exist in a vacuum. How come Canada's economy is so much stronger right now than the US? We have fiat currency, and a much larger social safety net that libertarians feel is pure evil by theft. Not only that, but as our government does more things that fit into the libertarian ideology (Lower taxes, deregulation), things are definitely not getting better.

In fact, Canada's economy fared better under a centrist government (Way left of even the US Democrats) that supported social programs such as universal health care, public education, welfare and other assistance programs, and also supported progressive taxation. Our wealthy didn't do poorly, not at all, and jobs were plentiful under these programs.

Reality, it seems, has a liberal bias and I forever find it fascinating that people will reject reality in favor of ideological purity. It's not unusual, nor is it unique to America, but it can be dangerous. We're seeing ideological purity slowly dismantle the Canadian economy and political landscape as we speak and I hope that it doesn't continue. In the US, ideological purity is driving your government and has been for a while and I truly believe that you're seeing the results of that purity now.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I really don't think so.
 
Why would it be Apple's responsibility to sustain the US?

It's not the fact that they need to sustain the US Nanci. It's the fact that they didn't get taxed enough. They used they BS lawyers to find loop holes and abuse the system. There for a while you couldn't buy an Ipod and sync it with anything but Itunes for music which cost $.99 a freaking song, when I already had all my music from a russian website getting the whole album for a buck and some change.

I was working my butt off on a Gas Rig in the Marcelus Shale here in Pa because it was about the only good paying Job. I was the only american Citizen working on that rig, and there were 2 other rigs the same way. (they only had 4 rigs) The rest were all Mexican claiming they were here on a Working Visa. None of them were legal. ALL of the oil field is like this. But that's another subject. Apple hardly gets taxed but yet, I had to pay my town of which I was living at 1,000 dollars and I hadn't even lived there but 8 months. On top of that, my Rent for the house was 750 (it's usually rare to see a house around here go up for rent above 550.) I was working 15-17 hours days on average 6-7 days a week. I worked hard for my money, I am now a home owner and my Home taxes don't even amount to 1,000 dollars a year. Now there's something wrong with that Nanci. I work my butt off and pay out the ying yang but a corporation such as Apple can go unscathed?

Don't get me wrong, I love the American dream of freedom, being able to be what you want and do what you want. But ever since I served this country and went to war for this country, watched the Immigration Problem move is far as the EAST COAST. I have a lot better perspective of this country than most people.

We are not on a good path right now as a nation and everyone should be concerned unless they are planning to move out of the country. Especially when the Rich get Richer and the poor stay poorer, our local jobs are given to immigrants and our goverment and big corporations are outsourcing US jobs.
 
But moving troops and equipment without a landing or mooring site means an amphibious assault. And THAT'S what I'm talking about. Yeah, there's tons of transport options, but you can't offload a massive transport ship without a port and you can't offload heavy equipment from a transport plane without a runway.

Any invading force would have to capture enough territory with amphibious troops in order to bring in the rest. A UAV or a lone agent or even an entire carrier battle group cannot take territory. You have to have troops on the ground to do that.

Canada has been at way several times in the past century, but not since 1812 have we actually fought on our own soil.

1. You don't need a Landing when there are Parachutes.

2. Marines and Navy don't need a port, they make one. We dropped a 2 bombs on japan and it ended that war. Drop a huge bomb, invade that area, boom, there's your port.

3. UAV and Airborne Agents can't take territory but they can hold and clear.

4. There are plenty of Amphibious vehicles that are up to par with going from Sea to land effectively.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=kOfXL1yURu4
 
Youtube Video

I am not trying to bring you down, you're belief is your belief, but I don't want to hear it from a youtube video you found on the web. I wanna hear it from your own heart, why you believe in what you just posted.

Anyone can go research and post someone else's video to describe their views. But that would be doing what he calls a "Sheltered Person's" act. Relying on other to do the work for you and not appreciating it.

As I said I not trying to bash, I am just curious as to why you don't see our economic state as a problem. I personally find it hard to comprehend that some people just don't see it.
 
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