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Guns

Yes, I thought exactly the same thing. I don't like to see unrelated items stuck together in a bid to force through something that would not pass on its on merits, even if it is something I like - THIS TIME!
 
I thought they passed the law about guns being allowed at national parks last year, and then it got taken away again.
 
I'm not sure if it had been passed before. I've heard talk about it for some time though.

Looks like you were right Nanci, from another article.. http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/2...DeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA2hlYWRpbmd0b2FuYQ--

"President Ronald Reagan first required guns to be stored or inoperable in national parks 25 years ago, but last December, just before leaving office, the Bush administration overturned that rule.
That began a game of legal Ping-Pong. In March, U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly overturned the Bush rule, and the Obama administration said it wouldn't appeal.
That action spurred Sen. Tom Coburn , R- Okla. , to include the gun rule in the credit card bill. It wound up winning by an unexpectedly lopsided vote."
 
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I don't feel safe without a gun under my seat, 'specially after a lot of years in a red-line neighborhood. Ripping folks out of their cars and coming home to a home with a busted in front door a couple of times, I'm sure glad they haven't passed any laws outlawing shovels.
 
Snakes Incorporated said:
Gun control.. =
With guns, we are 'citizens'.
Without them, we are 'subjects'.
The sword is more important than the shield
Click to expand...

I disagree. With guns, we're all in fear of each other, the police, the army - without guns we're among equals. The phrase we have is "policing with consent". In answer to your analogy, if everyone had swords we'd all have no fingers. :p

Anyway, here's my 2cents -

Ordinary people get guns = criminials have guns.
Therefore, police have to have bigger guns.
So criminials get bigger guns.
Then police get bigger guns...

How legalising gun ownership = safety I have no idea. I'd feel scared if I knew all the police had guns. Imagine how much the murder rate would go up if we legalised them tomorrow. :awcrap:

I guess its a culture thing, but the whole concept of everyone having guns seems so alien to me. Each to their own.
 
ladymagpie said:
I disagree. With guns, we're all in fear of each other, the police, the army - without guns we're among equals. The phrase we have is "policing with consent". In answer to your analogy, if everyone had swords we'd all have no fingers. :p

Anyway, here's my 2cents -

Ordinary people get guns = criminials have guns.
Therefore, police have to have bigger guns.
So criminials get bigger guns.
Then police get bigger guns...

How legalising gun ownership = safety I have no idea. I'd feel scared if I knew all the police had guns. Imagine how much the murder rate would go up if we legalised them tomorrow. :awcrap:

I guess its a culture thing, but the whole concept of everyone having guns seems so alien to me. Each to their own.
Click to expand...
You should get your 2cents back! :shrugs:



http://www.wnd.com/2001/03/8340/

http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/01/gun-controls-twisted-outcome

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/busting-the-gun-control-equals-less-crime-myth

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-uk-gun-ban-3819560.html

http://mygunculture.com/2011/01/12/uk-gun-ban-creates-more-interesting-graphs/
 
Gun Ownership

It's a responsibility and a right here in the US.
Gun control is really just another ploy to take the ability of a normal citizen to protect him/herself. Explain to me why I should give up the right to own a gun and protect my home. Do you think a criminal will stop using a gun or have any difficulty whatsoever finding one once they are "illegal?" They already use illegal weapons now. How will passing a law against them help the law-abiding citizens? While I concede that perhaps the pre-purchase training should be more rigorous, I will not give up my firearms. I enjoy shooting as a hobby, and after living in several "questionable" neighborhoods, people notice you cleaning your firearm in your garage, and tend to leave well enough alone.

I am more than open to discussing opinions, but I stand firm on the idea that the right to bear arms was designed as a means to prevent oppressive government and control. In a free nation, a citizen is armed, a subject is not. Why do you think we are not invaded as a nation? Would you try to invade a country whose citizens were armed and protecting their homes? A valid question.

OC
 
 
vhuhp1.jpg

i6a4k3.jpg

feksgz.jpg


I am vehemently against the "class 3" laws regarding machine guns, SBRs, and suppressors.
 
ladymagpie said:
I disagree.
I guess its a culture thing, but the whole concept of everyone having guns seems so alien to me. Each to their own.
Click to expand...

What about people like me, who enjoy shooting competitively? Should I not be able to participate in that sport, because gun ownership is illegal?
 
I also shoot competitively, IPSC. And enjoy building and upgrading my own guns. But more importantly to my day to day life, I own a business and carry cash to deposit at the end of the night. Come winter, it gets dark earlier, and there are always news stories of Asheville shop owners getting mugged while closing up. Should I not be able to at least TRY to defend myself? Not to mention, robberies plummet in areas where there is legal concealed carry. Just more of the reasoning some of us "gun loving" Americans have.
 
Chip said:
feksgz.jpg


I am vehemently against the "class 3" laws regarding machine guns, SBRs, and suppressors.
Click to expand...
I have been using that last pic for my signature for awhile now. I want to build a couple SBRs but I just really don't want to cough up the $200 infringement and register it.

Nanci said:
What about people like me, who enjoy shooting competitively? Should I not be able to participate in that sport, because gun ownership is illegal?
Click to expand...
Britains Olympic pistol shooting team had to leave the country to practice! Ironic since they were practicing to represent a country that loathes their sport.
 
tsst said:
You should get your 2cents back! :shrugs:



http://www.wnd.com/2001/03/8340/

http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/01/gun-controls-twisted-outcome

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/busting-the-gun-control-equals-less-crime-myth

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-uk-gun-ban-3819560.html

http://mygunculture.com/2011/01/12/uk-gun-ban-creates-more-interesting-graphs/
Click to expand...


The US, the UK and Austrialia measure what constitutes violent crime differently. For example, in the UK threatening to assault someone is classed as a "violent" crime even if there is no contact. So let's just focus on one statistic. Say, murder rates.

US "murder by firearm" per 100,000 population = 2.97
England and Wales "murder by firearm" per 100,000 population = 0.07

UK - per 100,000 population = 9.1
US - per 100,000 population =

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

So yes, I would say I feel safer in a country where very few people own guns. How does everyone having a weapon mean that people are less likely to be harmed? I'm struggling to understand that.

Also, the "gun control is like Hitler" poster to be excessively emotive and downright offensive. I'm not living in a Nazi state.

Now before I'm flamed again with selective webpages and jpegs, I just want to gently remind people that while we have a different way of doing things, my country has been doing them for a couple million years and we're doing ok, thanks. No need to laugh at my perceived innocence.
 
I fail to see your logic

You are arguing, if I understand correctly, that the UK has a lower rate of murder by guns, because they have no guns? That seems a bit ludicrous. Of course your murder by firearm stats will be lower. You don't have any.

Homicides in England & Wales over the past 3 years by method of killing.

Sharp instrument 698
Blunt instrument 167
Hitting, kicking etc 401
Strangulation 158
Shooting 140
Other 320

I'm not sure what "other" means, but it looks like in the absence of guns, violent crime still exists.
 
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