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First time breeding female sunglow motley and male ghost motley

ashleynicole

ashleynicole

New member
I live in central florida. We have a male ghost corn with a motley pattern and a female sunglow motley and after having the female for about three years we are ready to breed. (But she was already over a year old when we got her)We had her at a repticon about a year ago looking for a mate and that's when we got the ghost. We do have a male okatee but wanteda mate that would give us more interesting offspring. The female sunglow is supposed to be heterozygous for anery I think I was told but Im not the most knowledgeable with the genetics. The breeders at repticon last year said they were both ready but I waited another year so I could make sure my female was well conditioned and believe me I've talked to breeders and read a lot of articles but I still want as much advice and guidance as I can get.

So we fed them last week and they have recently shed so I put them together today. There was absolutely no chasing, they locked tales almost immediately. I waited a couple hours and when they looked bored I separated them again. From my research I should put them together every day at least 3-4 times is this correct? Or should I wait a day or so in between? I am going to make a nesting box with fresh moist sphagnum moss and then I know I should feed the female really well until she lays. And I've read different things about the water dish for gravid females so would appreciate input on that as well.

When you move your eggs to an incubator I've read about putting them on different substrates like vermiculite and being careful not to turn the eggs over. I have a hygrometer, thermometer, etc. How exactly do you handle your eggs? Why couldn't they be left in the sphagnum moss nesting box, like just move the nesting box to the incubator?

I apologize if this is too many questions but despite years of snake keeping this is my first time so I want to do my best. Our oldest snake is our okatee corn I raised from a hatchling and he is 10 years old so I am very careful with my husbandry.
 
Here is a photo of the happy couples first meeting. My 5 year old son says they had to get married if they are going to have babies :)
 
You were sold that snake as a ghost? Because it's not. It's a snow. You should get amel and snow motleys out of that pairing if your female is indeed het anery.
 
What's the difference between a ghost and a snow? Now that you mention maybe it was snow? I just thought it was both amelanistic and anethrystic?

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Ghost is anery and hypo.

Anerythistic removes the red & orange pigments, leaving only shades of black, brown, grey, and white. Amelanistic removes the melanin, which is a dark pigment that makes blacks and browns. When you have both genes present you have basically removed all pigments, leaving a more or less pure white snake called a snow. Except they really aren't pure white. You can still see the pattern in shades of yellow and/or pink. Some snows can even have rather bright colors.

Hypo is short for hypomelanistic. It is a reduction, but not total elimination of melanin. So hypo snakes tend to be more grey in places that a normal would be black. Overall, the snake may look a shade or several shades lighter and/or brighter in color than a non-hypo. Ghosts are a combination of hypo and anery, and so the blacks, browns, and greys of an anery are just lighter browns and lighter greys in a ghost.

Both anery and hypo are highly variable morphs, so sometimes you can't tell the difference between an anery and a ghost just by looking. Dark ghosts can be darker than light anerys.
 
I would not put them together every day. Give them a break for a few days, and then pair them again. And once they finish their lock, you can separate them immediately.
 
hypnoctopus said:
I would not put them together every day. Give them a break for a few days, and then pair them again. And once they finish their lock, you can separate them immediately.
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Ok will do. How many times should I introduce them together? I know it takes 3-4 weeks after mating to lay eggs.

kc261 said:
Ghost is anery and hypo.

Anerythistic removes the red & orange pigments, leaving only shades of black, brown, grey, and white. Amelanistic removes the melanin, which is a dark pigment that makes blacks and browns. When you have both genes present you have basically removed all pigments, leaving a more or less pure white snake called a snow. Except they really aren't pure white. You can still see the pattern in shades of yellow and/or pink. Some snows can even have rather bright colors.

Hypo is short for hypomelanistic. It is a reduction, but not total elimination of melanin. So hypo snakes tend to be more grey in places that a normal would be black. Overall, the snake may look a shade or several shades lighter and/or brighter in color than a non-hypo. Ghosts are a combination of hypo and anery, and so the blacks, browns, and greys of an anery are just lighter browns and lighter greys in a ghost.

Both anery and hypo are highly variable morphs, so sometimes you can't tell the difference between an anery and a ghost just by looking. Dark ghosts can be darker than light anerys.
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Ok I looked up an old Facebook post from when we actually bought him and he is a snow motley. That is a very good way of explaining it thank you.

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Shiari said:
You were sold that snake as a ghost? Because it's not. It's a snow. You should get amel and snow motleys out of that pairing if your female is indeed het anery.
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Any chance of getting any anery? If a snow is both anery and amelanistic and the female is het anery it seems like I could get amelanistic, snow, and anery. This so exciting...

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Anery is a pretty common het, so I would say it's possible. You should pair them every 3 days 5 times or until the female doesn't want to anymore.
 
hypnoctopus said:
Anery is a pretty common het, so I would say it's possible. You should pair them every 3 days 5 times or until the female doesn't want to anymore.
Click to expand...

Awesome. Thanks for the advice. Like I said I've read and been told many different methods so it's great to hear it from you guys here as well.

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It's easier to tell what's going on if you put them in an empty bin. Plus the male won't get aspen stuck on his hemipene and pulled back into his body.

They usually hook up within 15 minutes. Once they separate, you can put them back in their homes. I do them every three days until the female refuses twice in a row. A total of 1-6 times.
 
Nanci said:
It's easier to tell what's going on if you put them in an empty bin. Plus the male won't get aspen stuck on his hemipene and pulled back into his body.

They usually hook up within 15 minutes. Once they separate, you can put them back in their homes. I do them every three days until the female refuses twice in a row. A total of 1-6 times.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this. I wouldn't have thought of this and that makes a lot of sense actually. I am going to do a separate bin next time.

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Nanci said:
And Don Soderberg calls it "getting married" too :)
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I just love the way my kids assumed they must have gotten married. One day I'm going to have to explain that our personal values don't apply to everyone. Lol.
When my son's guppies gave birth he was trying to figure out which ones got married as well.


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Curious, Is a snow more desirable than a ghost?

Also they got together for the 3rd time today... w hooop!

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Also people are already asking me how much im planning on selling them for. I have some friends I would give to especially this being our first attempt but what price would y'all suggest is reasonable? I will probably sell them really cheap if I don't give em all away but I just want an idea on what these type go for. We got the male at a repticon for like 35 bucks but the female I think I paid 25 from a private seller just trying to downsize his collection. So I was thinking of asking like $25 after I make sure they're eating well. I know pet stores charge waaaay more.

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Well, the price depends on the morphs, but I think 20-30 dollars is reasonable for the more common morphs.

And I wouldn't say snow is more desirable than ghost; they're both 2 gene combos. It just depends on what a person likes the look of.
 
Oh wow around here the pet stores sell "fancy" corn snakes (just normal pattern albino and normal from what I've seen) for like $60-70 which I knew was way overpriced of course. So maybe selling cheap would be more like $10-20 then.

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