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Any ideas on this hatchling???

qtken2

qtken2

Oh you know!!!
I'm not quite sure what this little guy is. My opinion would be a Sunkissed Striped Tessera but not positive. I know Striped Tessera at least. Any thoughts?

The breeding was a Tessera het Orchid Stripe X Same

There were 5 eggs and 4 have hatched so far.
Lavender Tessera
Tessera
Normal
and this guy....

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Have you emailed Soderberg or Roylance yet? I'm guessing they may know, particularly Steve with him hitting orchid stripe either last year or the year before. That head is perplexing. Jumping around Ian's Viv it seems sunkissed + stripe results in a pretty reduced-patterned head like that. But all the sunkissed tessera pics I can find show sunkissed really toys with the tessera striping. Same goes for stripe and sunkissed. Most photos I'm looking at show sunkissed usually blotches or cubes out the stripe trait, though there are some with dashing, but nothing that runs complete or nor complete.

Neat critter!
 
Is it possible there are other hets in there?
That doesn't look stripe to me. That looks like a Tessera dorsal stripe, not a Stripe, stripe.
That head might be SK, but looks more Masque to me.
 
Started with a Stripe Tessera het Caramel possible het Amel, Anery, Hypo X Orchid. So there may be hidden hets but doubtful.
 
Doesn't sunkissed really mess up a stripe? I don't know how tessera all fits in, but SK stripes don't have a clean stripe, at all.
 
Last baby is a striped something. I only saw part of its body. Also a 2nd clutch of 10 eggs was laid yesterday as well. Maybe in 2 months I'll have something else to compare to.
 
Oh, I spotted this on iHerp and sent it to Don all excitedly. He has a pairing that could produce them this year and some time ago we were speculating on what they might look like. His opinion was that it didn't look like the right coloring for a sunkissed (though I only sent him the top photo, the other two look like they could be right). "I've never seen a Striped Tessera that had broken striping. This one puzzles me?"

I fully expected sunkissed to be able to break the pattern of stripe tessera, especially considering how unusual sunkissed tesseras often seem to look, but the faded sides? Whoa. This morph just moved to a higher position on my wishlist.
 
Dragonling said:
Oh, I spotted this on iHerp and sent it to Don all excitedly. He has a pairing that could produce them this year and some time ago we were speculating on what they might look like. His opinion was that it didn't look like the right coloring for a sunkissed (though I only sent him the top photo, the other two look like they could be right). "I've never seen a Striped Tessera that had broken striping. This one puzzles me?"

I fully expected sunkissed to be able to break the pattern of stripe tessera, especially considering how unusual sunkissed tesseras often seem to look, but the faded sides? Whoa. This morph just moved to a higher position on my wishlist.
Click to expand...

I sent him an email as well. Guess you beat me to it.

Last baby started coming out and I took a quick pic before it went back in

Striped Tessera
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NiklasTyreso said:
My guess is bloodred+striped+diffused.

Belly pics?
Click to expand...

Bloodred is diffused + masque (typically + reddening gene as well). This is not just a striped blood, and not only because there is no diffused in this pairing. The dorsal gap is too thin and resembles a pinstripe motley phenotype, but the stripe continues to the tip of the tail, indicating tessera is involved. If I had room for one more male, I'd happily snap him up to test against my orchid het stripe some years from now (though she is going into a different project first when she's of age).
 
No diffused genes in the mix. He has a clear belly, I'll get a shot if you really want it. Now I'm thinking he's something else! :crazy01:

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I was going to post earlier about that first baby possible being a pinstripe motley, but I got interrupted by a recruiter. It would explain the lack of lateral patterning VERY well. BUT I also have what I think are striped tesseras (1 normal and 1 caramel) that I hatched in 2014 that I recall have (EDIT: we need a strike through option for text...little lateral patterning...they do have lateral patterning) and the dorsal "stripe" fades.

I'm beginning to lean more towards that and less and less from tessera for that first baby. Both of my Miami pinstripe motleys from Nanci have the stripe continuing to include the tail. If one didn't know any better you'd think they were tesseras.

These are recent photos. Tails aren't as visible, but you can still get the idea.

Then there's this post I did... http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1714454&postcount=3 ...showing what the Sire (El Pollo Loco) and Dam (Zora) looked like as hatchlings.


ElPavoLoco-7-19-2016 by Chris Cirrincione, on Flickr


Callipepla-7-19-2016 by Chris Cirrincione, on Flickr


Is it possible that the lineage of these animals is not stripe, but rather motley? We know that motley is dominant over stripe, and when you have motley het stripe and the purported motley-stripe, motley is still the dominant pattern.
 
qtken2 said:
No diffused genes in the mix. He has a clear belly, I'll get a shot if you really want it. Now I'm thinking he's something else! :crazy01:
Click to expand...

Looks like lavender is in play. I was hesitant in saying such as it's been over 15 years since I've played with lavender babies.
 
Dragonling said:
Bloodred is diffused + masque (typically + reddening gene as well)
Click to expand...

I've always been under the impression that bloodred was a selectively-bred variant of diffused, where diffused + masque or diffused + red factor (per Joe Pierce, Don uses RedMask over RedFactor) are separate entities to themselves. :shrugs:

Don had a great example of these on his site, but the image is a broken link now. The example was Cayenne Fire (red mask albino bloodred), a sunkissed kastanie, and a "so-called "masque" mutant" as Don put it. Was from April 2014.

But I'm sidetracking Ken's post...
 
HerpsOfNM said:
Is it possible that the lineage of these animals is not stripe, but rather motley? We know that motley is dominant over stripe, and when you have motley het stripe and the purported motley-stripe, motley is still the dominant pattern.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input Chris. The original male was sold to me as a stripe when tesseras were fairly new. I didn't about the lineage of him because I was just excited to get a Tessera. If my desktop wasn't dead, I would post a pic of him.

I've watched those gorgeous miami's for years. I'm not too sure he is a pinstripe but I could be wrong. One thing though, I'll be holding onto him for now
 
HerpsOfNM said:
I've always been under the impression that bloodred was a selectively-bred variant of diffused, where diffused + masque or diffused + red factor (per Joe Pierce, Don uses RedMask over RedFactor) are separate entities to themselves. :shrugs:

Don had a great example of these on his site, but the image is a broken link now. The example was Cayenne Fire (red mask albino bloodred), a sunkissed kastanie, and a "so-called "masque" mutant" as Don put it. Was from April 2014.

But I'm sidetracking Ken's post...
Click to expand...

The point I was making was that bloodred and diffused are ultimately the same. To say they're selectively bred isn't inaccurate, but breeders previously thought 1X masque was a het marker for a singular bloodred gene which, once it was discovered to be a polygenic phenotype, led to the term diffused coming into use. People still often insist that suffusion (a red wash on the belly) is required for a true "bloodred" as well, which has never been shown conclusively to be caused by a single gene and many strongly (and I believe sometimes erroneously) associate with one of the reddening genes. The real question that bothers me here is, "Where DID masque come from?" It seems odd that two (or even three?) mutations would just happen to show up in a population at the same time. Suppose I need to look back on the history of bloodreds more closely, but so little was recorded for posterity in any meaningful way, so it's no wonder so many question what a bloodred actually is.

I agree, the new photos look very lavender. Full body shots of top, sides, and belly would be helpful here.
 
So he's the most chill hatchling I've had so far and very active. Not a single strike so far so it's hard to stop him and get a quick pose.
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