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Oh nooo....

OK...I probably don't have all the info, but I sure hope you're not jumping the gun by taking her to the vet if it's not necessary. When was she bred (each time) and what are her due dates (if bred several times, there are multiple due dates)? When was her pre-lay shed? I wasn't joking when I said it can take UP TO 14 DAYS OR MORE after a pre-lay shed to actually lay the eggs. I would sure hate to see you stress her out with a possible unnecessary trip to the vet and possible actually cause her problems.

OK...I just ran a quick search and Lacey's last hook-up was on the 26th of February. Since corn snakes can take up to 45 days post-mating to lay their eggs, with the average being 39 days (per Kathy Love's manual), Lacey may not really be due to lay yet. Day 39 would be the April 5th, but day 45 isn't until the 11th. My recommendation is for you to wait and just give her some time. If you don't see an egg stuck right at her vent, then she isn't egg-bound and there is no reason to be concerned at this point.
 
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Thank you so much Susan. I found another slug this morning... It's less slugish than the others, it could even be fertile so it's in the incubator anyway. I have phoned the vet and let him know, he would like to see her in but I'm just so worried about stressing her out. I told him all the dates etc and he agrees that there is still some time before panic stations. I'm just concerned that she laid her first slug almost a week ago and nothing else :(

If I don't take her in today before the weekend and she becomes egg bound theres nothing I can do until monday and thats really not a pleasant thought :(
 
But if she laid a ?slug? today, she's not eggbound! (Just trying to help you not worry...)
 
Tula_Montage said:
Thank you so much Susan. I found another slug this morning... It's less slugish than the others, it could even be fertile so it's in the incubator anyway. I have phoned the vet and let him know, he would like to see her in but I'm just so worried about stressing her out. I told him all the dates etc and he agrees that there is still some time before panic stations. I'm just concerned that she laid her first slug almost a week ago and nothing else :(

If I don't take her in today before the weekend and she becomes egg bound theres nothing I can do until monday and thats really not a pleasant thought :(
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When did she shed? If it was less than the 2 weeks ago, bringing her to a vet can be the worst thing you could do at this time...unless there is more to the story that you haven't told us!
KJ
 
Her prelay shed was on the 18th of March sooo 17 days ago?. The vet phoned me there and I confirmed the exact dates of everything and he said it's not critical to see her at the moment since shes obviously not bound, but he would like to see her on Monday if nothing has happened over the weekend.

Can I ask why taking her to the vet at this point woud be a bad move Kjun? I never want to take a herp to the vet if it's unecessary as I feel all too often they do more harm than good.
 
I have an appointment for Monday afternoon... thats the longest I am willing to give her. If she passes the eggs this weekend then fabulous, if not it's off to the vet although I'm not quite sure what they can do. They will probably just admit her and keep her in a few days. If she becomes bound they can sort it sooner than I can.
 
If she's near laying and you start moving her around, that in itself could cause her to become eggbound.

If she's not even trying to lay, thenI don't think you have a problem. Eggbinding seems to be accompanied by a good deal of heaving and pushing and trying to pop those suckers out.

Must admit I'd be leaving her well alone in this situation, but you have to do what you think is best. I'm not sure your vet's given you the best advice, but that's just my view.
 
I agree Bitsy... shes not trying to lay which is why I'm worried... I know she knows best and I am just leaving her alone. They wanted to see her tomorrow and I said no. I just want to know why these slugs have been so sporadic?
 
Tula_Montage said:
Her prelay shed was on the 18th of March sooo 17 days ago?. The vet phoned me there and I confirmed the exact dates of everything and he said it's not critical to see her at the moment since shes obviously not bound, but he would like to see her on Monday if nothing has happened over the weekend.

Can I ask why taking her to the vet at this point woud be a bad move Kjun? I never want to take a herp to the vet if it's unecessary as I feel all too often they do more harm than good.
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Stress of moving a snake that just wants to be left alone to lay eggs, aspiration (and resultant minor chance of infection) when not necessary since it is too soon), palpation resulting in prolapse, etc. because it is done prior to the eggs being ready to come out (again unnecessarily), surgery for no reason....etc.!

All it comes down to there is NO reason to move a female that doesn't show signs of problems prior to 2 weeks post-shed. If there is an obvious sign of a problem, that is different. If not, it is unlikely for a snake to egg-bind on the first egg (ignoring the slug, and it is too soon after the second slug to think dystocia). 17 days is very different from 14, so that changes things. I have had females wait 21 days after the shed to lay, so 17 is not unheard of.
 
I think slugs are just waste and seem to be "disposed of" by the body as and when the opportunity arises. There's no point wasting physical resources going into full labour if the only result is a non-productive clutch.

I do feel for you. If only they could speak...!
 
I am really sorry you are going through this. I have never bred snakes so I can't imagine what you are going through.

But I have bred dogs and when a bitch has a bad whelping is it horrible. So in that regard I feel your pain.

Try to remain calm, everyone has given really good advice it seems. I think the most important thing is that you don't have a heart attack that way you can take care of those babies when they come.

Good luck and many hugs being sent your way.
 
Well I won't even be looking at Lacey over the next two days. I have annoyed her far too much by looking in and romoving slugs etc. Im just worried sick as this is oh so obviously my first time breeding. I cannot thank everyone enough for the fabulous advice given to me over the last week or so.
 
The first (only) time I had a dog whelp, things didn't go right, and I took her to the vet, and it wasn't my vet, it was an emergency vet, and they wouldn't let me come in and watch the C-section, but then five minutes later they were passing blue puppies out to the waiting room for my friend and I to get going...(It was a pug, she couldn't have a vaginal birth because of the large head size). I never felt the urge to breed again after that disaster...
 
I still don't understand why people insist on breeding dogs that simply cannot give birth naturally ie pugs, english bull dogs etc. On that note, this experience has made me wonder why the heck to I want to breed? It's utter selfishness on my part :(
 
I'm really sorry Elle. Last year was my first time breeding and I did everything wrong from having the female in a viv next to the chair I sit in most of the time to totally stressing her. I checked so often when she started, calling people she had one egg, two, three... I moved them over as I thought she was turning them. Finally Jen came over and took nine nice eggs, but she still had more. While she never became stressed and bound the remaining 11 eggs were laid about a month later all dead and dried up. To top it off I misread and used peat moss so the intial eggs were good but icky from the start and they died. I debated breeding again this year and did, but have an easier attitude about it, with no expectations. This will be the last year I breed. I think Janine went through similar last year after over checking, but she got some good babies out of it.
 
Tula_Montage said:
I still don't understand why people insist on breeding dogs that simply cannot give birth naturally ie pugs, english bull dogs etc. On that note, this experience has made me wonder why the heck to I want to breed? It's utter selfishness on my part :(
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Oh Elle....

I truly do symapthize with what your feeling. And if we could all sit in the same room, I'll bet anyone who'd had more that a couple of clutches would agree - sometimes it doesn't seem worth it.

Have you heard my eggs on the floor story?? I tripped over the temerature cord that was in the moss some eggs were incubating in. The probe caught underneath one of the eggs and pulled the entire clutch out of the container and on to the floor. On a positive note? the moss came out with em and the eggs landed on the moss too. I just sat on the floor and cried. Three years???? Three years of work to dump em on the floor... my daughter looks at me sitting there cradling moss and eggs. It's one of those moments where I say, what am I doing???? Killing them off is what I see!!! But then then she reminds me about how excited I get when they finally pair up, when they pip and when I get the unexpected......

That said, yes it would have been great if your first clutch went by the book. But it didn't. You're doing okay and so is your girl. Try to be patient, know we're all here rooting for you!!

Oh... just so you know I was thinking about you yesterday..... my Bloodred girl had a pre-lay shed and with it came a slug, dead on top of the lay box I put in there.... <sigh> I think she's been reading your thread with me...!!

Hang In There!!!

-Tonya
 
Elle and Tonya, keep the faith.
Elle please keep from taking your female to the vet until Thursday.
Tonya dont think negative after that slug.
I still remain positive for both of you.

Ciao
 
SnakeCreations said:
Oh Elle....

I truly do symapthize with what your feeling. And if we could all sit in the same room, I'll bet anyone who'd had more that a couple of clutches would agree - sometimes it doesn't seem worth it.

Have you heard my eggs on the floor story?? I tripped over the temerature cord that was in the moss some eggs were incubating in. The probe caught underneath one of the eggs and pulled the entire clutch out of the container and on to the floor. On a positive note? the moss came out with em and the eggs landed on the moss too. I just sat on the floor and cried. Three years???? Three years of work to dump em on the floor... my daughter looks at me sitting there cradling moss and eggs. It's one of those moments where I say, what am I doing???? Killing them off is what I see!!! But then then she reminds me about how excited I get when they finally pair up, when they pip and when I get the unexpected......

That said, yes it would have been great if your first clutch went by the book. But it didn't. You're doing okay and so is your girl. Try to be patient, know we're all here rooting for you!!

Oh... just so you know I was thinking about you yesterday..... my Bloodred girl had a pre-lay shed and with it came a slug, dead on top of the lay box I put in there.... <sigh> I think she's been reading your thread with me...!!

Hang In There!!!

-Tonya
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I'm so sorry to hear that Tonya! What a devistating story. Lets just wallow in the misery of breeding complications together :cry:
 
susang said:
Janine went through similar last year after over checking, but she got some good babies out of it.
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I certainly did, and the best advice I got was to stop checking Pearl and let her lay in peace. Elle, read 'the tincture of time' thread
http://cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50824&highlight=tincture
I caused Pearl's problems by disturbing her too much. I had a lot of support in getting through it, but I still know I delayed her laying and could have lost her through my inexperience. This year I know better and will not disturb a laying female unless I really think she's dying.
 
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