Hognose & Allergy Concern

[Cam5]

Well...I am ready to get slammed.
But I wanted some input from someone who may have further informaiton.

We brought home an '05 male western honose about 10 days ago.
Yes, I knew he has a 'mild venom' that would hurt like a shot if you were tagged. I also saw the pics of the guy who let hig hoggie chew on his hand and took pics.

We also have 3 kids...11, 8 & 6.
I now have discovered that if you are allergic or have any type of reaction to a bee sting it puts you at 'greater risk' for a reaction to snake venom reactions that are more sever than usual.

Considering we have found out the hard way recently that 2 kids and myself have reactions to bee stings...hugely swollen etc...no true allergy ie. no breathing trouble...this is making me VERY anxious.

I am now 99% ready to bring the snake back as it seems stupid otherwise to have an animal you would normally 'handle' and knowingly take a risk like that...at least in my world here at home.

Thanks for any and all inputoke:

 

[wade]

If it were just me, I might take the risk. I don't know if I would run the risk with my kids however. I noticed you also have an Emp. Scorpein. I'll bet it falls into the same catagory as bees.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

You should just not take any risks and send him to me :devil01:

 

[KJUN]

I now have discovered that if you are allergic or have any type of reaction to a bee sting it puts you at 'greater risk' for a reaction to snake venom reactions that are more sever than usual.

I'd like to see clinical evidence of that before I'd say there was any truth to this at all. It's been an old wives tale for decades, but I don't think it has an basis on fact. Please correct me if you know of clinical proof. I'd love to read those journal articles!

Considering we have found out the hard way recently that 2 kids and myself have reactions to bee stings...hugely swollen etc...no true allergy ie. no breathing trouble...this is making me VERY anxious.

I am now 99% ready to bring the snake back as it seems stupid otherwise to have an animal you would normally 'handle' and knowingly take a risk like that...at least in my world here at home.

Honestly, you shouldn't have gotten the snake in the first place if this was a concern to you. We usually recommend against a hognose as a FIRST snake for this reason. The risk is SMALL, but it is a REAL risk. However, those reactions to bee stings aren't anything like a true allergy to be concerned with. Heck, we get stung more times per year than I want to count, and some of them swell up BAD....but most barely itch. That is normal, and most people think ANY swelling means they are "deadly allergic'.........lol. Personally, I'd say that what you described is unlikely to make you more susceptible to hognose venom than anyone else....

HOWEVER, if you are nervous with a hognose, then you (rightfully) should not keep it. They are potentially dangerous - even though the risk is VERY small - and you shouldn't keep them if they make you nervous. That's what I tell everyone - not just you. I also don't really think of them as a "kids' snake" or "beginners' snake" for anyone.....not really. They do have some REAL benefits and can make good pets, but they SHOULD be treated with a certain level of careful respect.

Return it for a cornsnake f that makes you feel better. otherwise, keep it, be careful with it, and enjoy it. The risk of getting chewed on, getting the venom into you, and having a BAD reaction is small.....it just is not zero. Heck, people have almost died from gartersnake saliva, too....nothing is 100% safe. ...even the scorpion can be deadly if you were actually allergic to the venom.

KJ

 

[Cam5]

If it were just me, I might take the risk. I don't know if I would run the risk with my kids however. I noticed you also have an Emp. Scorpein. I'll bet it falls into the same catagory as bees.

Yes the Emperor does. But he is our hands off 'pet'.

Pretty much under lock and key. He is fascinating to watch. I am the only one who feeds, cleans etc. That was straight up the deal when he came home.

Unfortunately the Hoggie is a different story. We know someone with a very docile hoggie. He automatically plays dead. I held him and our 8 year old held him and it was 'love' at first sight. My dad worked with them before anyone knew they even had venom.

We have another friend with a tough little guy 'little cobra' and the kids have not held but have interacted with him too.

The kids each took a turn at the reptile shop with Hubert. We were initially thinking of a hatchling but then thought an adult that was less flighty would be a better choice.

I guess I am thinking out loud here...nobody here wants to hold the Scorpion...no offense to Scorpion lovers. We think of him as a little critter lava lamp...awesome to watch and learn about ...but hands off.

The snakes are in a different category for us. It would be like having a puppy that only mom could play with and they just had to watch it from a far.

FYI, I finally got up the guts to take him out today, he made no fuss but I was so nervous...I am lucky I didn't get tagged...I know they can sense when you are freaking out.

He's only 18 inches long and 62 grams...but I would never forgive myself if something happened to one of my kids.

 

[Cam5]

I'd like to see clinical evidence of that before I'd say there was any truth to this at all. It's been an old wives tale for decades, but I don't think it has an basis on fact. Please correct me if you know of clinical proof. I'd love to read those journal articles!




Honestly, you shouldn't have gotten the snake in the first place if this was a concern to you. We usually recommend against a hognose as a FIRST snake for this reason. The risk is SMALL, but it is a REAL risk. However, those reactions to bee stings aren't anything like a true allergy to be concerned with. Heck, we get stung more times per year than I want to count, and some of them swell up BAD....but most barely itch. That is normal, and most people think ANY swelling means they are "deadly allergic'.........lol. Personally, I'd say that what you described is unlikely to make you more susceptible to hognose venom than anyone else....

HOWEVER, if you are nervous with a hognose, then you (rightfully) should not keep it. They are potentially dangerous - even though the risk is VERY small - and you shouldn't keep them if they make you nervous. That's what I tell everyone - not just you. I also don't really think of them as a "kids' snake" or "beginners' snake" for anyone.....not really. They do have some REAL benefits and can make good pets, but they SHOULD be treated with a certain level of careful respect.

Return it for a cornsnake f that makes you feel better. otherwise, keep it, be careful with it, and enjoy it. The risk of getting chewed on, getting the venom into you, and having a BAD reaction is small.....it just is not zero. Heck, people have almost died from gartersnake saliva, too....nothing is 100% safe. ...even the scorpion can be deadly if you were actually allergic to the venom.

KJ

Thank you for the reply.
It was information from the physician.

He is our 4th snake, but I hear what you are saying. Our 3 corns are/were easy and no other concerns if tagged other than washing it up.

 

[Nanci]

I went through a period of being freaked out by my tri-color hognose. He was in this phase where he'd just start chewing me (which was eventually solved by feeding him more). I know how you feel. However, the person in the pictures who was envenomated by his Western allowed the hoggy to chew on him for several minutes just to see what would happen. If you or your children should be bitten by your Western, it would most likely be a hunger bite, which you could stop immediately. I have an Eastern who bluffs and strikes at me all the time, but it is with a closed mouth without really aiming at all. I think you have very little risk- but I know what it feels like to not feel comfortable with a snake- it's miserable. Has the snake in question ever given any indication that it would bite?

 

[SnakesRule1234]

This is something I considered before buying my hognose snake... I am dangerously allergic to bee stings and I am 95% sure I'd have an allergic reaction if my hoggie bit me.
In my opinion, this is something YOU should have considered BEFORE getting the snake. The risk is really small and Nanci explained it but still....

 

[Stregone]

Can a doctor do an allergy test on this?

 

[PtDnsr]

We currently have 5 western hoggies...the most aggressive of which is Sir Hiss (who is very aptly named). Whenever I go near his cage he is hissing and headbutting. He strikes but it's with a closed mouth (even when I put food right in front of him) so I say he's headbutting. I am nervous to get him out but I use the feeding tongs to keep his head down so I can grab him behind the head. He hisses a bit and then is fine while I'm handling him. He'll still hiss and flatten his neck but he's much better. I also won't put him down while he's hissing lest he learn that hissing = being put back in his cage. The rest of mine are pretty good - I'm just careful if they're hungry. They are fun little guys though and if they're handled a lot they're really relaxed in my experience. 18" and 62 grams though? Sounds a little skinny (or maybe I'm really bad at visualizing). You have to do what you feel is right though. Anywho...are we gonna get to see pics?

~Katie

 

[Cam5]

Has the snake in question ever given any indication that it would bite?

I really appreciate your thoughtful reply

We have only had him for about 10 days now. He was from a local breeder's collection that was given to the local reptile store where we have purchased 4 other reptiles. At the store he showed no signs of anything aggressive even being handled by 3 kids and 2 adults for 15 minutes.

He ate on this past Friday for us...a f/t fuzzy (that is what I was told he was eating).

Today was the first day I have taken him out. He acted like a tiny ball python...when I opened to lid he scrambled to the corner twisted himself into a pretzel and stuck his head under himself. After about 10 minutes of me blowing on him gently he poked his head up and I took him out, looked him over, weighed him and put him back...total of 10 minutes.

He is very skittish...If we walk by he zooms out of sight...very different than our corns who follow us from their enclosure.

I saw someone else here who as bit and had to unhook the fangs and has a very swollen hand.

I am just worried the kids bodies are a lot smaller than a 180# man...

I hear the tricolors are supposed to be the most docile...according to Jenea Woods book and site information anyway

Thank you again!

 

[Cam5]

This is something I considered before buying my hognose snake... I am dangerously allergic to bee stings and I am 95% sure I'd have an allergic reaction if my hoggie bit me.
In my opinion, this is something YOU should have considered BEFORE getting the snake. The risk is really small and Nanci explained it but still....

I did consider it...but I had not seen the allergy relationship explained prior. It was explained by several sources as a shot sensation that would feel like a bruise afterward. Then I saw the guy who let his chew on him....and knowing that was not going to be the case if anyone here was bit dismissed it.
So thank you for your reply...sometimes we think these things over for months but then a new bit of information comes into play that turns everything around.

 

[Cam5]

We currently have 5 western hoggies...the most aggressive of which is Sir Hiss (who is very aptly named). Anywho...are we gonna get to see pics?

~Katie

Thank you for the first hand information, it is very helpfu!
I have to look up how to post pictures again.
He looks noce and round but perhaps not. The breeder said he was an '05...perhaps the information was off?
Thank you again.

 

[Cam5]

http://www.kingsnake.com/toxinology/colubrid.html

Okay, so now colubrids-corns and rat snakes are venomous too?!?!?!?!

Good grief:headbang:

 

[RobbiesCornField]

http://www.kingsnake.com/toxinology/colubrid.html

Okay, so now colubrids-corns and rat snakes are venomous too?!?!?!?!

Good grief:headbang:

I had never seen that before! Next thing you know, "the man" will be trying to make us get permits for all of our colubrids!

 

[SnakesRule1234]

Corn snakes are not venomous...
Just because a couple colubrids are slightly venomous doesn't mean they all are. No offense, but you're kind of over-reacting... lol

 

[Cam5]

Corn snakes are not venomous...
Just because a couple colubrids are slightly venomous doesn't mean they all are. No offense, but you're kind of over-reacting... lol

:cheers:Thanks...I needed that...time to chill out a bit and figure it out in the morning...

 

[desertanimal]

I haven't been bitten by the native hognoses, but I have been bitten quite a lot by the yellow one (Golden hognose maybe?) that lives in Madagascar, and once by the giant hognose there. I never had any reaction at all, which leads me to believe that I was not envenomated by those quick, defensive bites. I react pretty nicely to bee/wasp stings. This is the result of a single small wasp sting on a pinky finger, and that lasts every time for at least 3 days. None of those snakes "chewed" on me, and I don't think I would let a snake "chew" on me for long if I was at my house and had a faucet close by to discourage that action!

I would find out yourself if your snake it bitey. If it isn't, then there's not much to worry about, is there?

 

[Cam5]

I haven't been bitten by the native hognoses, but I have been bitten quite a lot by the yellow one (Golden hognose maybe?) that lives in Madagascar, and once by the giant hognose there.
I would find out yourself if your snake it bitey. If it isn't, then there's not much to worry about, is there?

***Do you think they only open mouth bite as a feeding reaction?
Initially the people I spoke with said they only closed mouth bluffed and would only open mouth strike if you smelled like a mouth. And that I would be more likely to get musked on than anything.

Thanks for your first hand experience. It is helpful to collect information based on experiences that vary.

 

[Nanci]

My eastern hoggy Addy HATES me right now. She has an abcess that needs frequent draining/cleaning/packing. She strikes me repeatedly, with violent hissing, and it is ALWAYS closed mouth. If biting was natural for her, she'd be biting the you-know-what out of me.