Rich, he's just trying to influence you to do something that would cause you to need a lawyer.. :laugh:
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Interesting video.......
- Thread starter Rich Z
- Start date
Rich, he's just trying to influence you to do something that would cause you to need a lawyer.. :laugh:
michael couture
New member
Politically ignorant blacks is a racist comment, because it's categorizing them as "blacks". The term "blacks" alone strikes a cord with me, then to add politically ignorant in front of it... Why not say the people interviewed were politically ignorant, what does being "black" have to do with it. I never saw anybody to determine there race in the first place, it was an interview in which we assumed they were black, because Howard Stern made references. Also why did Howard Stern target african americans? I'm sure there were other people of all races that were uninformed. He targeted them to create this type of contriversial discussion, and to get people to think they were "politically ignorant blacks".
I just think people are scared to face their own racism. It does'nt have to be as straight forward as using racial slurs, or using hatred. It's about categorizing any group of people, based on stereotypes, or the opinion of a small section of that race that share a common opinion. Thus "politically ignorant blacks" is racist, and I take extreme offense to the term. Clearly "politically ignorant" was sufficient enough to describe the people, but "blacks" was added as to create an association to "politically ignorant" and people of a certain race, which IS a racist comment.
I just think people are scared to face their own racism. It does'nt have to be as straight forward as using racial slurs, or using hatred. It's about categorizing any group of people, based on stereotypes, or the opinion of a small section of that race that share a common opinion. Thus "politically ignorant blacks" is racist, and I take extreme offense to the term. Clearly "politically ignorant" was sufficient enough to describe the people, but "blacks" was added as to create an association to "politically ignorant" and people of a certain race, which IS a racist comment.
ForkedTung
Serpent Mound Monk
OK, I think this was adressed to me?
First I'll address your charge of racism. I honestly don't think that you could find anyone who is politically savy that wouldn't agree that the soundbites of the people in that video are politically ignorant. They obviously are not familiar with the candidates and their policies and are therefore uninformed of the politics.
I'm not sure about the
Again I'm not sure who this is directed at:
What I was basically saying was that the video has absolutely NO MERIT. I think it should be obvious that politically ignorant people of any skin color will vote for the person they identify with, unfortunately skin color is easily the most identifiable trait for people too lazy to inform themselves on political issues, and also there is always the underlying current of racism ( which I find disgusting and beyond reproach) shaping a persons political outlook. My question about whites doing the same was facetious as I thought it would be obvious that this happens regardless of voter skin color.
If you really want to get picky the fact that you only took issue with my "politically ignorant blacks" and didn't even mention the part about "politically ignorant whites" ( The woman who called Obama an Arab is a good example) could be construed as racism.
I'm not sure what happened with you and your PM, your writing style is difficult to read but I fail to see how that should reflect upon my post. In regards to my post let me explain it a little more clearly:
First I'll address your charge of racism. I honestly don't think that you could find anyone who is politically savy that wouldn't agree that the soundbites of the people in that video are politically ignorant. They obviously are not familiar with the candidates and their policies and are therefore uninformed of the politics.
I think they pretty much made it clear that the speakers were black and from Harlem. hence politically ignorant blacks.
I'm not sure about the
part either? I think it's pretty clear that the statement is mine. What I am sensing here is some displaced agression. Michael, It appears that something happened that you didn't like and chose to attack my post for it, is there any truth here?
Again I'm not sure who this is directed at:
Now I would like to make my post even clearer to you Michael.
What I was basically saying was that the video has absolutely NO MERIT. I think it should be obvious that politically ignorant people of any skin color will vote for the person they identify with, unfortunately skin color is easily the most identifiable trait for people too lazy to inform themselves on political issues, and also there is always the underlying current of racism ( which I find disgusting and beyond reproach) shaping a persons political outlook. My question about whites doing the same was facetious as I thought it would be obvious that this happens regardless of voter skin color.
If you really want to get picky the fact that you only took issue with my "politically ignorant blacks" and didn't even mention the part about "politically ignorant whites" ( The woman who called Obama an Arab is a good example) could be construed as racism.
michael couture
New member
By the way, I do understand the underlying point of your post. I see that he was actually defending the fact that there are ignorant people of all races, and drew focus to the fact that there are plenty of white people voting on race as well. And it was an overall good underlying point. I just took offense to "politically ignorant blacks", because I thought the distinction should be kept seperate. I think "politically ignorant" summed it up, and there was no need to bring "blacks" into the equation. Again forked tung, I understand and agree with your overall message of all races having ignorant people. I know your intent was good, so if this sounds like a preaching session to you, it's not. I just feel like people tread to close to the line, even if they're not conciously doing it.
michael couture
New member
I agree 100% forked tung, and I do understand your particular reason for the post. As for reflecting the site, I know it's your opinion, that comment was not directed towards you. It's just that I got a PM for sending someone rep power, because I liked their Tupac quote, which was completely unoffensive. The PM said that I was wasting precious time of the mods, and that they would all get a copy of my message. And I was bothered that I tried being nice to someone and got some ridiculous PM, and yet people were posting some garbage Howard Stern video with no reprocussion. I did'nt intend that to be directed at you, it was directed at the video.
I know you were trying to make a point, but I felt that the term "blacks" was best left out of the discussion. I think "misinformed voters who happen to be black" would've been a better term. I just felt that the term "blacks" stood out as a way to categorize those individuals, as reflecting the entire race.
I know you were trying to make a point, but I felt that the term "blacks" was best left out of the discussion. I think "misinformed voters who happen to be black" would've been a better term. I just felt that the term "blacks" stood out as a way to categorize those individuals, as reflecting the entire race.
Drizzt80
Dakota Corns
Sorry, but no, it's not. The test for something being a racist comment is determined by changing the ethnic group in question with a different one. If the statement still makes sense or the joke is still funny, then it's not racist. If not, especially with jokes, then it's racist.
Politically ignorant whites
Politically ignorant Hispanics.
Politically ignorant Cornsnake owners.
Not one of those statements carry any more weight/truth/falsehood than the other. Not racist.
D80
michael couture
New member
I have no problem forked tung for his comment, and I am not going to beat this into the ground. I liked the underlying point, but not the presentation. I think "blacks" was'nt a reasonable part of the equation, and "politically ignorant" was good enough.
Again I understand it was'nt intended as racist, so we're good. I just think that this video might cause this topic to take a bad direction, and I'm just being clear on my feelings.
I really have the problem with the video, and the comment I read struck me the wrong way. I think it's good to have this discussion, and I respect forked tung for understanding my point, although he was right in his underlying message.
Again I understand it was'nt intended as racist, so we're good. I just think that this video might cause this topic to take a bad direction, and I'm just being clear on my feelings.
I really have the problem with the video, and the comment I read struck me the wrong way. I think it's good to have this discussion, and I respect forked tung for understanding my point, although he was right in his underlying message.
I get where you're coming from in a way Michael, but if a phrase is questionable in that sence, just take a look at the poster's context. "I'm so tired of all these political ignorant blacks" on the other hand without the context, would certainly be a racist comment- or at least clumsy enough that I would secretly suspect the person of making such a statement 'under the cover' of something else. But that certainly does not resemble the statement made IMO..
Ricky87
New member
Personally, anyone who gets their political info from Howard Stern is as "politically ignorant" as it gets, let alone culturally inept. Howard Stern is clearly targeting a particular "type" of person, and who knows how many people he fielded those questions to before he got his precious 3 soundbites. He chose those people for a reason and that is racist. I know Tom e, and forked tung, and Michael, would agree with me on this, and that alone is enough for people to realize it was ethically wrong and should have NO place on this site. People make attempts to flex their "O'Reilly" muscle all the time by trying to find evidence of so-called "counter racism", such as these people in the youtube video. I can gaurantee you they would never dare to bring this questionairre to people outside of an Obama convention, because they know their own political knowledge would be put out very, very quickly!. As for that sign about, "try it again and I'll show you the 2nd ammendment", that would seem very intimidating, but too bad for you the person who tore it down will never see that photo you took. I don't think it is right for anyone to take down a McCain sign, just as I see it as unfair to do to an Obama sign, but to threaten with use of force comes across as very weak. If you want to post out in your yard with a lawn chair and shotgun, so be it, but you will be in for a long jail sentence if you so much as threaten anyone. Gun's won't intimidate anyone on a web post, and maybe you could have gotten more sympathy, and respect, if you had the competence to express verbally why it upset you, and said plainly how you should have the right to put a McCain sign on your property without having to fear vandalism. Suffice it to say, though, you could always find a new one, and for all we know, due to your aggressive sign, the person who vanalized your sign is someone who knows you personally, and knows that you are capable of ignorance beyond a simple McCain sign. Just saying!. I know if I knew of someone with those kinds of tendencies I would rip that sign down as well, even if I too was a McCain supporter, if for only the simple fact you give John McCain a bad name by tying your own anger and ignorance to his already criticized campaign. Agree or don't, but that sign is ridiculous, and so is that youtube video. I don't say this often, but maybe spending so much time searching for "NOBAMA" propaganda on youtube has finally fried your brain. I say this again, "the biggest threat to truth is ignorance!".
Oh, bullhockey...... "blacks" in that statement is a descriptor of the race of human beings being discussed. I trust "blacks" or "negroes" or "African Americans" choose to be identified as a separate branch of the human race, otherwise why are there such events and organizations such as the NAACP, or the "Black Miss America Pageant", or a publication I saw recently called the "Black Business Directory"?
Racism is not a one way street where one branch of the human race can make a distinction with separatist inferences yet another branch doing the same cannot do so without being labelled as "racist". In that light would an organization such as the NAAWP (National Association for the Advancement of White People), or the White Miss America Pageant" or a publication entitled as the "White Business Directory" be racist or not?
Hell a while back there was a murder at a rest stop near Tallahassee and when the police rounded up the potential suspects based on some witnesses description, the blacks went nuts demanding that some white people were put in the line up REGARDLESS of the fact that the witnesses identified a black man as the perpetrator. Personally and quite frankly, such a thing just defies reasonable behavior in any class of people, regardless of their color.
Personally I am not prejudiced at all, in the derogatory sense that many people use such a term. I would hire someone regardless of their color if I thought they could do the job. But that also does not mean that I am blind to statistical evidence of the predisposition of certain classes of people to act in predictable ways. Yes, I DO judge people by their appearance and mannerisms. And so does everyone else if they are honest with themselves. It would be very stupid NOT to.
I don't care that Obama is black and I don't care that McCain is white. I personally don't like either one of them and I am not at all happy that those are really my only two REALISTIC choices to vote on. If I had my preference, each and every voting ballot in this country would have a NONE OF THE ABOVE vote available which should be used by the American people to signify to the election process that when needed we do NOT like any of the people who are presented to us as options. So go back to square one and give us a choice that we would be proud to vote for, instead of a couple of people we need to try to figure out who we want to vote AGAINST.
I'm not exactly sure who you are directing this post to, fella, but my suggestion to you is to cool down before you get yourself in trouble here. If you cannot engage in a conversation without getting derogatory and condescending in the process then you cannot engage in any conversations on this site. This goes for anyone and everyone.
oke:
Ricky87
New member
Sorry, but maybe thats because white priviledge has existed in this countries for centuries, and if we blended white people into the "NAACP" and "United Negro Colledge Fund" it would dilute the underlying reason to why those organizations are in existence in the first place. I'm white, but I'm not going to undermine the right of black people to create organizations to better their place in society just, because I'm left out. I come from immigrants, but generally white ancestry has taken so much livelihood from minorities over centuries, so don't even pretend we're suddenly on a level playing field. The average annual white persons income is around 50,000$ dollars, whereas the average annual black persons income is around 8,000$. I'm sure you have some wonderful reason for why that is, but frankly it comes down to an "oppressive society". That is a fact, that I ignore all disputes about. Unless of course you say it's, because white people are harder workers in this "equal oppurtunity society", in which case I say ABSOLUTELY NOT, NO WAY, NOT TRUE!. My mother is white, and my Aunt is black, and yet my whole family can attest that, growing up in a rural pre-dominantly white community, my Aunt did not have a boyfriend, nor did her friends parents allow her over for playdates and dinner as a child and teenager. My aunt is now 36 years old, so it's not ancient history, and what do you think became of those children who were told it was wrong to associate with her?. They have jobs, businesses, and children, and I will bet that alot of that racism is still being passed generationally through their families. I can also gaurantee this was not an isolated incident, but luckily for me my aunt is a strong black women and had the ability to not succumb to this racism, and is now a very successful women living in New York, and a great mother I might add!. All of that is no thanks to the racism she endured as a child. Luckily through her, it has taught me right and wrong from a very young age, and I will always condemn ignorance of all forms, regardless of how ignorant people may be!.
I'm not going to call you a racist for this quote alone, but it does show that you personally have alot of soul searching to do. "That also does not mean that I am blind to statistical evidence of the predisposition of certain classes of people to act in predictable ways....Yes, I DO judge people by their appearance and mannerisms. And so does everyone else if they are honest with themselves. It would be very stupid NOT to"; This shows that you do judge color, and you do have some very serious racist tendencies, regardless of how you choose to defend it. I will listen very openly to how you defend this, and I hope for your sake this is not a true reflection of your character, because this is just un-acceptable!.
Drizzt80
Dakota Corns
Your source? Don't start throwing out numbers you can't (and won't be able to) substantiate.
PS. I thought we were past the name calling business?! You're back to calling people ignorant with your last couple of posts. Bummer, I thought you'd changed.
D80
Ricky87
New member
You posted the initial video looking for people to band up with, so if you get upset with my opinion then so be it. I don't care if you threaten to ban me, because as long as I keep it to the topic and curse-free, I feel no pressure to hold my tongue. Your an Admin, not god, so your judgement say's nothing to me. Maybe you weren't expecting people to call out that video in the first place, but who cares. You put it out there, and I gave you my opinion. If you think threatening to ban me will work, then that's your problem. Ban me or don't, but in no way will I conform to your opinion. I felt everything I said was truthful, and I made sure not to offend anyone who wasn't looking to create problems. Maybe you think that being an Administrator of cornsnake.com/forums gives you the right to create propaganda at will, but I won't tolerate any of it. Your not the judge and jury, and if you think you can threaten me with a ban, than I have to say your threat falls on me like a grain of salt. Maybe you should add more objectivity to what you produce if you don't want such responses. It seems to me that you think that being an Admin gives you the right to put out anything you want with zero back-lash, but it doesn't. If I have to I'll create my own forum, and I do know how so it matters not, to me!.I'm not exactly sure who you are directing this post to, fella, but my suggestion to you is to cool down before you get yourself in trouble here. If you cannot engage in a conversation without getting derogatory and condescending in the process then you cannot engage in any conversations on this site. This goes for anyone and everyone.
Drizzt80
Dakota Corns
Unfortunately you fail to see that A. it's not a threat, and B. it's not about you voicing your opinion it's about you
D80
Ricky87
New member
Derogatory is pretending that those people in the Howard Stern video represent how all black people, or all Obama supporters percieve him. Rich Z posted both of those videos, and they both exuded a strong "Anti-Obama" sentiment. I wasn't being condescending at all, so think what you want. The truth is that I love this site, but if I'm forced to read someone elses opinion, without being able to express my own, than maybe this site isn't something I want to be a part of anyway. I love my cornsnakes, and I love Barack Obama, and I would love to be able to express myself, but if I'm going to have to worry about a ban, just because I don't agree with what he's doing when he's expressing himself, than maybe I should just post on another site. The fact is that this is a great "Cornsnake" site, but when it comes to being a fair Obama site it lacks tremendously. My history leads me to how I feel, and I won't let someone generalize, or characterize, Barack Obama, or an entire race of people. I've gotten very pleasent rep's from people, and though maybe some of what I say is recieved with a bitter taste, I find it unfair those videos are not held to the same standard. Who knows, maybe this whole topic is intimidating, but, Drizzt, your replies to me have been far more condescending than anything I've posted about anyone. It's all quote clips, and "you saids", I mean, maybe I just don't back down when people criticize Obama, but this whole thread begs for differences in opinion, so I find it surprising someone can't handle mine. Either way, if what I've said has been percieved as "too much", than maybe no-one should post anymore anti-Obama threads, because all it does is make me express my opinion, which is what I though this thread was about in the first place!.
There is something I want to say about the old race card, for the discussion here and also in answer to a PM I got, just so I won't be typing it twice, I'll do it here..
I agree 100% that the race card has been pulled in this election.. And I'm not meaning to pick on you here Michael, cause I understand that you see now what was wrong with your earlier comment..
But here's the thing about that.. I haven't seen it used by Obama's campaign. I've seen it in the media, where I've seen it used (the woman card is the same card after all) by the other campaign, directly!
None of us support our candidate well when we do that. I don't mind admitting that I would love to see a black President. The reason is that it says something about our country moving forward out of a racist past. But I could never with good conscience support a candidate based on the color of their skin. And I would vote against ANY candidate in a second if I liked the other better for his qualifications.. I was (how shall I put it?) going to find myself an undecided Democrat if this election had been between John McCain and Hillary Clinton, even though I would also very much like to see a woman President..
What I like about Obama is his intelligence and clear headedness on things. The fact that he doesn't throw McCain's preacher problem at him, even though one could say turnabout is fair game. He understands that it does NOT follow that one guy is racist just because someone associated with him is. The fact that he hasn't ever (that I've seen, please correct me if I'm wrong) pulled the race card, because he wants to make whites and blacks and everyone else, feel very comfortable with the fact that he's different (in appearance) than the candidates who came before him.
I agree 100% that the race card has been pulled in this election.. And I'm not meaning to pick on you here Michael, cause I understand that you see now what was wrong with your earlier comment..
But here's the thing about that.. I haven't seen it used by Obama's campaign. I've seen it in the media, where I've seen it used (the woman card is the same card after all) by the other campaign, directly!
None of us support our candidate well when we do that. I don't mind admitting that I would love to see a black President. The reason is that it says something about our country moving forward out of a racist past. But I could never with good conscience support a candidate based on the color of their skin. And I would vote against ANY candidate in a second if I liked the other better for his qualifications.. I was (how shall I put it?) going to find myself an undecided Democrat if this election had been between John McCain and Hillary Clinton, even though I would also very much like to see a woman President..
What I like about Obama is his intelligence and clear headedness on things. The fact that he doesn't throw McCain's preacher problem at him, even though one could say turnabout is fair game. He understands that it does NOT follow that one guy is racist just because someone associated with him is. The fact that he hasn't ever (that I've seen, please correct me if I'm wrong) pulled the race card, because he wants to make whites and blacks and everyone else, feel very comfortable with the fact that he's different (in appearance) than the candidates who came before him.
Drizzt80
Dakota Corns
Unfortunately you're wrong again, but that's okay. You are right about the quote clips and "you saids". You've said it, and then you deny it or change your story, so I'm forced to quote it . . . that's after calling people ignorant of course . . . which I think is racist.
oke:I'm still waiting for your source of the income "statistics" you provided when comparing whites to blacks . . .
D80
CassieK
Animal Fanatic
I would very much so like to know why some of you on this forum are choosing to insult and judge a person based on his or hers opinion. A few of you have taken this as an opportunity to attack several other members believes and views. You continue to pick apart what others are saying and trying to point out how their believes are incorrect. Ricky87 you have been the worst at this and no one has yet to say that those who want to vote for Obama are ignorant in their own words. Yet you continue to judge heavily those who feel differently. This forum I believe was started to be able to discuss not to belittle and down grade those who feel differently than you on voting. This is getting very ridiculous and I am tiered of sitting by and watching as other members patiently listen to you but once they put in their own input you attack them as individuals. Ricky87 I know you would not appreciate it if I stated that you were ignorant for voting for Obama yet you continue to say that about anyone who is voting for McCain. No one has in their own words down graded Obama.
I consider these a personal attack on ones integrity. Show the same respect that the other members have shown to you and stop attack people for their views. The attacks that you have received have been in response to your own harsh words.
Ricky87
“it's sad a 23 year old knows more about honesty, integrity, politics, and leadership, than any of you McCain supporters.”
“war mongering Bush and McCain”
“I feel bad for your children, because the last thing we need is another generation of self-righteous arrogants who only care about making themselves appear intellectual.”
“Follow McCain to his old, scraggly demise”
“Go figure, twice my age and half my intellect”
“Your ignorance is beyond useless”
“Do something positive, because you are too old to be SO mis-informed”
“I've experienced more than you could ever imagine, so that doesn't phase me one bit.”
“He's a liar, and he just wants to bomb everyone”
“Drizzt, if you believe Bush and McCain are doing the best thing for America, than you are sorely mistaken”
“It just sounded like you are much more confident in Bush and McCain's ability to lead our troops”
“Personally, anyone who gets their political info from Howard Stern is as "politically ignorant"
“but it does show that you personally have alot of soul searching to do”
“This shows that you do judge color, and you do have some very serious racist tendencies, regardless of how you choose to defend it.”
This is not about the people on this site.
I consider these a personal attack on ones integrity. Show the same respect that the other members have shown to you and stop attack people for their views. The attacks that you have received have been in response to your own harsh words.
Ricky87
“it's sad a 23 year old knows more about honesty, integrity, politics, and leadership, than any of you McCain supporters.”
“war mongering Bush and McCain”
“I feel bad for your children, because the last thing we need is another generation of self-righteous arrogants who only care about making themselves appear intellectual.”
“Follow McCain to his old, scraggly demise”
“Go figure, twice my age and half my intellect”
“Your ignorance is beyond useless”
“Do something positive, because you are too old to be SO mis-informed”
“I've experienced more than you could ever imagine, so that doesn't phase me one bit.”
“He's a liar, and he just wants to bomb everyone”
“Drizzt, if you believe Bush and McCain are doing the best thing for America, than you are sorely mistaken”
“It just sounded like you are much more confident in Bush and McCain's ability to lead our troops”
“Personally, anyone who gets their political info from Howard Stern is as "politically ignorant"
“but it does show that you personally have alot of soul searching to do”
“This shows that you do judge color, and you do have some very serious racist tendencies, regardless of how you choose to defend it.”
This is not about the people on this site.
VinnyJ
Red Chin Eastern Indigo
Just out of curiosity what did you mean by that? You say this like it's something that he could leverage but I wouldn't see the benefit of it since over 70% of the population is white. Maybe I misunderstood what you mean by that.