Are we killing the future market?

[KJUN]

I've stayed out of this until now, but just have to make one comment concerning these "high-end" new genes. Not every new gene is commanding a $1000 price tag. In fact, the first price tag I recall seeing for a particular newly accepted gene was $150. And that was for a morph that was not only homozygous for the new gene, but also for 2 other genes as well. A triple homozygous corn morph that contained a new gene for a mere $150. I don't think Rob raked in the dough on that one. (I have no idea what Rob was selling blue motleys for before they were accepted as anything other than selectively bred anery motleys or hybrids, but from what I recall, I doubt too many members of this forum bought them.) And by the time that gene was accepted by this corn snake community, it was found in multiple collections all over the world. So those of you who are commenting about the drop in price from $1000 to $500 to $300 for new gene morphs, it doesn't always happen that way.

That's because dilute had been around forr 10 years or so prior. The "blue motleys" were for sale in the 90s for something like twice what the ghost motleys were going for...and that was a lot of money for corns back then.....lol. The price actually went up a little when Rob proved it was a simple recessive gene. Note - he didn't prove it was NEW (because it wasn't) - he just proved it was recessive and NOT just an odd colored hypo. What Rob did was harder, and he deserves more credit for what he did. Kudos to him.

However, you can't use that as an example because it has been around since before any corns brought in the really "big bucks." Hell, I had on before I moved to Texas in 2000....lol.

 

[KJUN]

yep mystery project. My HLB was bred to to HLB hetfemales. carmal motley het hypo PH albino would not breed. Pied project reabsorbed both clutches. striped blood red projects bla. hypo miami project floped go 1 ok looking animal. . Hy hybrids screw up to . Corduran X jungle . 2 unfertile clutches. Hypo publanX corn F2 produced 2 clutches that did nit go full term. Jungels would not breed, then the lizards trans projects the hypo projects yes from 20 to 30 grand down the tubes.

You mean you failed to make $30k - not LOST $30k as in "I'm claiming a $30k loss on taxes this year." Right?
KJ

 

[Vinman]

That's because dilute had been around forr 10 years or so prior. The "blue motleys" were for sale in the 90s for something like twice what the ghost motleys were going for...and that was a lot of money for corns back then.....lol. The price actually went up a little when Rob proved it was a simple recessive gene. Note - he didn't prove it was NEW (because it wasn't) - he just proved it was recessive and NOT just an odd colored hypo. What Rob did was harder, and he deserves more credit for what he did. Kudos to him.

However, you can't use that as an example because it has been around since before any corns brought in the really "big bucks." Hell, I had on before I moved to Texas in 2000....lol.

KJ you remember thoes days too . I remember RZ selling the first butters for 300 each. At that time that was a whole lot of cash for a corn . thoes were the days.

 

[Vinman]

You mean you failed to make $30k - not LOST $30k as in "I'm claiming a $30k loss on taxes this year." Right?
KJ

Yes I failed to make 20 to 30 grand because of lack of animals I produced. I'm in such a hole this year

 

[KJUN]

KJ you remember thoes days too . I remember RZ selling the first butters for 300 each. At that time that was a whole lot of cash for a corn . thoes were the days.

Yeah, I remember when people were still buying an anerythristic to breed to an amelanistic to roll their own snows because a snow just cost too much. ...and snows were already less than $100/each......lol.

I wasn't around when snows were $500 when they first hit the scene, but Soderberg was. It's funny, because he remembers telling someone that they were nice, "but I'll never be able to afford one of those." Funny stuff!
KJ

 

[Jeff Linkchorst]

yep mystery project. My HLB was bred to to HLB hetfemales. carmal motley het hypo PH albino would not breed. Pied project reabsorbed both clutches. striped blood red projects bla. hypo miami project floped go 1 ok looking animal. . Hy hybrids screw up to . Corduran X jungle . 2 unfertile clutches. Hypo publanX corn F2 produced 2 clutches that did nit go full term. Jungels would not breed, then the lizards trans projects the hypo projects yes from 20 to 30 grand down the tubes.

Vin

I am sorry you had a bad year breeding. ****IMO**** Your crying over spilt milk. To LOSE 20-30 grand means you FIRST had it!!!!! What you did was count your chickens before they hatched!!! You are dealing with a unsecured investment. Plans don't always work out the way they were planned..

 

[Vinman]

Vin

I am sorry you had a bad year breeding. ****IMO**** Your crying over spilt milk. To LOSE 20-30 grand means you FIRST had it!!!!! What you did was count your chickens before they hatched!!! You are dealing with a unsecured investment. Plans don't always work out the way they were planned..

very true Jeff, I very honest. When I' wrong I'm wrong. I agree with you and KJ. This is how I put food on my table. It is like being a farmer and only producing 1/10 if the crops you should have.

 

[KJUN]

Yes I failed to make 20 to 30 grand because of lack of animals I produced. I'm in such a hole this year

Well, shoot. That's better than what I thought you meant. I saw Vinman losing his PC to NYC mobsters...I mean, bankers, due to snake bills...and being unable to post here anymore. Sorry for your loss (but you don't want to know what a sterile giolddust male caused me to lose over a 2 year period!), but better than it could have been, eh?

Hope you have a better year right now.
KJ

 

[Vinman]

THANK YOU FOR THE KIND WORDS KJ

 

[wade]

Help me understand. Vinny is the guy who wants to put a $2000 price tag on his snakes. So if I read this right he had 15 snakes that didn’t sell for his price and that constitutes a $30,000 loss. Oh the IRS is going to love you.

A loss is when your expenses exceed your income. That is vastly different than not making as much as you dreamed you would.

 

[starsevol]

Help me understand. Vinny is the guy who wants to put a $2000 price tag on his snakes. So if I read this right he had 15 snakes that didn’t sell for his price and that constitutes a $30,000 loss. Oh the IRS is going to love you.

A loss is when your expenses exceed your income. That is vastly different than not making as much as you dreamed you would.

Wade hunny, sometimes it hurts less when you DON'T understand some people.....

 

[El Jefe]

So Vin...when you feed your snakes off to your dragons is that a loss or part of the business? :sidestep:

 

[Vinman]

Help me understand. Vinny is the guy who wants to put a $2000 price tag on his snakes. So if I read this right he had 15 snakes that didn’t sell for his price and that constitutes a $30,000 loss. Oh the IRS is going to love you.

A loss is when your expenses exceed your income. That is vastly different than not making as much as you dreamed you would.

Did you not read the post when I said Jeff and KJ were right. There is no need for you post it was already agreeded on. Talk about beting a dead horse you should take your own advice.

Now since I only produced 25 to 30 animals my expences did out way my income.

 

[Vinman]

So Vin...when you feed your snakes off to your dragons is that a loss or part of the business? :sidestep:

The answer is no, just like the dragons I fed off to the snakes I dont consider it a loss because It is my choice

Jeff you know I did not produce anywhere neer what I should have. The only culls last year deforms and unfertile eggs. The 2 jungles I got off you did not breed for me either and the other jungle I got laid 2 unfertile clutches with my cornduran male. You know I had you high up on the list for the Okeetee X bell stock bloods that produced the pied sided. I almost called you up to aske you if you still wanted my amel 5' 6 inch corn. I cant part with him but if cash get read bad then I might be calling you to see if you still want him

 

[wade]

Did you not read the post when I said Jeff and KJ were right. There is no need for you post it was already agreeded on. Talk about beting a dead horse you should take your own advice.

Of course I read your post Vinny. I hang on your every word. But sometimes statements are so ludicrous they bear further examination.

 

[HanneysCorn]

There is a difference between the price of the snake and the value of the snake. I can set the price anywhere. The value is what I can actually sell it for. As much as I may like to, I don’t set the value. That is the job of the market which neither you nor I control.


Nobody controls the market and that is the way it should be. The buyer, not the seller, will always set the value of snakes.

The wisest post made so far in my humble opinion. If you want to make a living selling snakes then this should be written on your wall to remind you everyday...you ultimately need to satisfy the consumer, the buyer...or you DON'T have one. You can say a snake is worth $2000.00 but if you have no buyers...then go ahead, hold it back, keep it for another year...it won't be worth $2000.00 then either.

You know sometimes I think some folks are trying to inflate prices for all the wrong reasons. Is it status? Is it hype? Congratulations on isolating/discovering a new gene but hey folks...tell me you've found a cure for cancer and then maybe your secret pill/remedy is worth $2000.00. A cornsnake? It's a snake...a pretty creature, a different colour or pattern. Isn't personal satisfaction in discovering something no one else has had the 'luck' of uncovering yet enough recognition? We aren't talking real life here folks, we are talking hobby for the majority of buyers. Investment quality snakes...sorry I just don't buy it!

If you want to think it's something special go ahead...hype away. Personally, I'm in this hobby to make beautiful snakes, plan the breeding, nuture the gravid female, tenderly watch over the eggs, become excited about the possibility of what will hatch, get those cuties feeding and established, choose my keepers, and then pass on that excitement to someone else...share it with others who have a similar passion and perhaps make a little money to offset my costs of having/being part of such a miracle of birth.

I'm just shaking my head...is there no passion left with some of you or is it really all about how much money you can make? Can't anyone remember the good old days when corns were admired and loved as just that...a cornsnake!

My .02 cents and that's peanuts in this high stake world of "investment corns".

Ruth

 

[starsevol]

I just got a nasty pm from Vin, saying that we are no longer friends.

While I don't dislike Vin, I think his behavior in this thread has been monsterous. He has no idea how much this thread has hurt him. His huge ego prevents him from seeing the bigger picture.

Vin, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. But really man, you're hurting yourself here.....people are talking...your reputation is being shattered because of your attitude....seriously man, get a grip...

 

[Vinman]

Of course I read your post Vinny. I hang on your every word. But sometimes statements are so ludicrous they bear further examination.

Cool, I still consider it a loss being it put food on my table . Just like when a farmer say I had what ever amount in crops. I had eggs go bad whole clutches and some clutches where 2 to 6 eggs were good in a whole clutch. Just like a farmer will tell you he has lost money in his crops it is not the plant he is talking about it is the frut, seed, or root he is talking about. So in my case yes I lost 20 to 30 grand in expected futures. I'm glad the fish has pulled me through and some side jobs and most important family

 

[starsevol]

The wisest post made so far in my humble opinion. If you want to make a living selling snakes then this should be written on your wall to remind you everyday...you ultimately need to satisfy the consumer, the buyer...or you DON'T have one. You can say a snake is worth $2000.00 but if you have no buyers...then go ahead, hold it back, keep it for another year...it won't be worth $2000.00 then either.

You know sometimes I think some folks are trying to inflate prices for all the wrong reasons. Is it status? Is it hype? Congratulations on isolating/discovering a new gene but hey folks...tell me you've found a cure for cancer and then maybe your secret pill/remedy is worth $2000.00. A cornsnake? It's a snake...a pretty creature, a different colour or pattern. Isn't personal satisfaction in discovering something no one else has had the 'luck' of uncovering yet enough recognition? We aren't talking real life here folks, we are talking hobby for the majority of buyers. Investment quality snakes...sorry I just don't buy it!

If you want to think it's something special go ahead...hype away. Personally, I'm in this hobby to make beautiful snakes, plan the breeding, nuture the gravid female, tenderly watch over the eggs, become excited about the possibility of what will hatch, get those cuties feeding and established, choose my keepers, and then pass on that excitement to someone else...share it with others who have a similar passion and perhaps make a little money to offset my costs of having/being part of such a miracle of birth.

I'm just shaking my head...is there no passion left with some of you or is it really all about how much money you can make? Can't anyone remember the good old days when corns were admired and loved as just that...a cornsnake!

My .02 cents and that's peanuts in this high stake world of "investment corns".

Ruth

I just had to rep this.....

 

[Vinman]

I just got a nasty pm from Vin, saying that we are no longer friends.

While I don't dislike Vin, I think his behavior in this thread has been monsterous. He has no idea how much this thread has hurt him. His huge ego prevents him from seeing the bigger picture.

Vin, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. But really man, you're hurting yourself here.....people are talking...your reputation is being shattered because of your attitude....seriously man, get a grip...

your pm was not open and deleted no beth please dont bother Pm or contacting me again thank you. I tried to do trhis i privet . This is very tasteless to post it here to say the least