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Cornsnake morph guide, 2009

Russell said:
But that doesn't mean you should put up walls! And if a wall is there, well by golly, take the upper road and move on!
Click to expand...

The whole point of my first post was that Yes Chuck and Connie do still have walls. When was the last time they came to this site to tear down those walls? Why are they not even here now?
Because they chose to leave those walls up. I am not going to support that, and am actually surprised that so many do.

Anyone know why there is a 30 day limit to editing posts?


As per the questions about the errors, I would have to pick up a new copy, as I no longer have my old copy, I threw it away a long time ago.
 
Russell said:
Brent,
oh really? are you ready to talk to me again then? You are trying to hold Chuck to a high standard, yet you don't live it yourself! I have also tried hard to mend the fence between you and I and you won't allow it and totally ignore me just the same!
Click to expand...
Don't lie. As far as I can recall, I have directly answered any and all private messages you have sent me. The last communication between us (from my memory) was regarding your reptile show which I answered several years ago. I have had no reason to mend fences with you because you have made your feelings (once again) perfectly clear both publicly and privately. Your last remembered communication to me was when?

Russell said:
I still consider you a highly respected corn snake breeder. I have animals of yours and never fail to tout you as a great breeder.
Click to expand...
I have heard otherwise privately and have not seen you publicly tout animals in your collection as mine since our last communication. Why the discrepancy between your words and your actions?

I think I've adequately explained my feelings based on my experiences with Mr. Pritzel. The fact that you arise to defend him, and he chooses not to defend himself nor enter into dialogue concerning our past transgressions, nor come "home" to the most active cornsnake website, is very telling, but so be it.

D80
 
mike17l said:
The whole point of my first post was that Yes Chuck and Connie do still have walls. When was the last time they came to this site to tear down those walls? Why are they not even here now?
Because they chose to leave those walls up. I am not going to support that, and am actually surprised that so many do.
Click to expand...
IIRC, Chuck, Connie, and a few others - Carolyn Piquette and Carlos Rodriquez come to mind - decided to leave this site and form "The Source" because of their frustration over the way a particular "drama" was handled, i.e. the "chat room" incident. They're not here because they chose to devote their time over there. As Michael Corleone would say, "it's not personal, it's business".

I didn't agree with it, I don't agree with it, but I accepted it, and moved on. But I wouldn't infer that their choice to form and foster another corn snake resource on the web is a volitional choice to "leave those walls up".

Emailing Connie, Chuck, Carolyn, or Carlos (ok, the first initial thing was weird) is a relatively painless process. I wouldn't doubt if you got a response from any of them within 24 hours. (OK, maybe not Carolyn.)

As per the questions about the errors, I would have to pick up a new copy, as I no longer have my old copy, I threw it away a long time ago.
Click to expand...

So, you're making an accusation of "mistakes" and "gross misinformation about genetics", without being able to cite and support those accusations.

Noted.


Dale
 
mike17l said:
As per the questions about the errors, I would have to pick up a new copy, as I no longer have my old copy, I threw it away a long time ago.
Click to expand...


Mike, I haven’t been a part of this from the beginning. I’m not really taking anyone’s side. But I think it is really unfair of you to say there are errors but I can’t back that up in anyway. If you’re going to slander a mans word in public, you ought to be able to be specific. Other wise it’s just petty name calling.
 
jazzgeek said:
I didn't agree with it, I don't agree with it, but I accepted it, and moved on.
Click to expand...
Regardless of how my current motives may be perceived by Russell, I did too. I noticed your very specific absence from CS.com for a time and privately applauded your very specific recent return. :shrugs: I wish to be able to say the same for others eventually.

D80
 
wade said:
Mike, I haven’t been a part of this from the beginning. I’m not really taking anyone’s side. But I think it is really unfair of you to say there are errors but I can’t back that up in anyway. If you’re going to slander a mans word in public, you ought to be able to be specific. Other wise it’s just petty name calling.
Click to expand...

I said that there were errors in his early copy and thus did not keep the book. I also said, I hope he has fixed those errors. I do not know if he did fix them in his 09 version, but I hope he did.
 
I guess it's obvious I'm getting old . . .

wade said:
Mike, I haven’t been a part of this from the beginning. I’m not really taking anyone’s side. But I think it is really unfair of you to say there are errors but I can’t back that up in anyway. If you’re going to slander a mans word in public, you ought to be able to be specific. Other wise it’s just petty name calling.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the reason Rich made the B.O.I. was partly so bashing would not interfere with the sharing of information on forums like this. I think people that are new to this forum may decide it's not the place to absorb ideas, and further their cornsnake education, when they see such bashing and bickering. I think we should all stick to the ideal of sharing information here, and if we have a problem with someone personally, take it up on the B.O.I. This thread is an example of why I don't spend more time here. I know it's virtually impossible to have the mass sharing of ideas on forums like this without some differences of opinion, but if I were new to this forum, I'd wonder if this thread was representative of the core of this forum, or just an isolated attack on someone.

Just my $.02 worth.

Don
 
Drama aside, to those who have gotten the 2009 copy, anything really new/different from the '08 version that makes it a must have?
 
No offense to anyone who is disucssing this stuff but... How does -any- of it relate to the Guide? I'd rather talk about the fact that it is a hand made awesomely informative (Everyone makes mistakes in printing and information) book.

How about the comb-binding that let's me lay my book out while I look over a snake?

Least that's what I'd rather discuss....
 
Was the section on eye color in the 2008 edition? I really enjoyed that! Oh, and the microscopic scale ID section. (I don't have the book at work). That was really interesting! And some new morphs. New future projects.
 
Saffleur said:
No offense to anyone who is disucssing this stuff but... How does -any- of it relate to the Guide? I'd rather talk about the fact that it is a hand made awesomely informative (Everyone makes mistakes in printing and information) book.

How about the comb-binding that let's me lay my book out while I look over a snake?

Least that's what I'd rather discuss....
Click to expand...

I’m going to second that opinion. I have no axes to grind and have found the book to be invaluable. I would recommend it to any one who is interested in getting a better understanding of Cornsnake genetics.
 
Drizzt80 said:
Don't lie. As far as I can recall, I have directly answered any and all private messages you have sent me. The last communication between us (from my memory) was regarding your reptile show which I answered several years ago. I have had no reason to mend fences with you because you have made your feelings (once again) perfectly clear both publicly and privately. Your last remembered communication to me was when?

I have heard otherwise privately and have not seen you publicly tout animals in your collection as mine since our last communication. Why the discrepancy between your words and your actions?

I think I've adequately explained my feelings based on my experiences with Mr. Pritzel. The fact that you arise to defend him, and he chooses not to defend himself nor enter into dialogue concerning our past transgressions, nor come "home" to the most active cornsnake website, is very telling, but so be it.

D80
Click to expand...


Nope, I refuse to argue about it anymore Brent. Let's just drop it. Cause yes I have the information to prove your statement wrong, and I have several examples I could dredge up. But to what end? It will only stir up bad feelings, and not good ones! And your right, there are and will always be people who will stand up for Chuck and Connie as Kathy, Don, and Dale and others have and will do. Let's not argue shall we? Friends? And I have to point it out, I've always said my bloodreds from you are top notch! You don't have to dig that far to find those posts!

Ok, this is about the morph guide....so let's stick this back on track than.

What's different, well, that's already been posted, interesting indeed! And yeah, talk about getting a CLOSE look at your snakes when your pulling out microscopes! Sheesh!
 
Well I personally wasn't here for this whole connie/chuck business...so I don't have anything against, nor for them. As a neutral observer...all i can say is that while yes, much of the information can be found on the internet...I do like to have a hard copy of information in one place. It's the reason I buy books, instead of solely relying on the internet. The same reason I bought Kathy Loves book (and enjoyed it), and am planning to buy Don's book.

As far as the CMG, a lot of it I already knew, most of it I could find on the internet...but I thought it was a good read and there were things in it that I learned more about. The 2009 edition is the first I bought so I'm not sure what was in previous editions...but I found the eye color thing interesting, as well as head patterns. I did not know much about head patterns until reading that book.

Anyway, I think it's a good supplement to have. It may not have all the answers, but who does.
 
I intended to post on this thread when i saw it this morning but didn't have time.Lo and behold i get home and find that i have recieved my autographed 09 Cornsnake Guide in the mail today.
I am not sure what happened here in the past but consider Chuck and Connie very close friends.
Not being a genetics wizard myself i respect what they say and listen closely when they speak.
Thanks Rob
P.S.I shall read it carefully tonight and report if i find any mistakes lol.
 
It is always good to check for mistakes. No matter how many times you proof a book, a few always creep in. The first printing of our Comp. Guide said (if I remember correctly) that corn hemipenes were 3" long and that corns could get to 36', or something like that. Always something more to correct!
 
So whats new with the 2009 guide I really enjoyed the 2008 version which did discuss eye color and head pattern, but what else is in there?
 
It is in mine I swear let me look up the page numbers...pg. 46 talks about what controls eye color and all kinds of stuff is there something different?
 
Um- I was looking at 2007! Can't find 2008!! Sorry...But I know the part about the microscopic differences between the hypo morphs is new!!!!!!!! And that weird white speckledy corn is in there...
 
The 2008 edition did have an eye section but not the images, and some other print(?), that is in the 2009 guide.
 
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