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Venomous Bite Serious Question

Nanci

Nanci

Alien Lover
If you are trail running, and get bit by a rattlesnake four miles from your car, is it better to walk back to the car, or run, so you reach help faster? Let's say it would take 30-40 minutes to run, and 60 minutes to walk.

If you _could_ be reached by a vehicle, would it be even better to sit and wait, not knowing how long the response time would be?

Thanks!
 
The more the blood flows, the more the venom would spread, so sitting would be best, but I would not take a chance on someone happening to come by. I would walk back. Also, I would have a cell phone on me (nearly always do) and would be trying my best to get a call out to someone, anyone, to help. My employer has taken out HALO flight insurance for us, so I would use that to my full advantage in this situation.
 
Depends on the snake.

The reality is, you should have a cell phone on you, and hopefully you'll have a signal. Where you are, Nanci, my biggest concern would be Eastern Diamondbacks, which can inflict a deadly bite with ease. If one of them gets you 60 minutes from help...you might want to pray...

The best course of action for any viper bite, IMO, is to remain as calm as possible, and walk as quickly and calmly as possible to the nearest available help. The entire time you are walking, you *should* be trying to contact someone via cell phone...preferably 911 or a nearby forest service ranger station.

*Most* viper bites in North America aren't going to prove fatal, unless you have an annaphylactic reaction. But ALL need treatment. So be calm, but get help. You're not going to die within a few minutes. In fact, you probably have a few hours before any serious systemic reactions set in, unless you are allergic or annaphylactic.

Keep that in mind, and try to stay calm. In perfect world, your cell phone woprks, and you're not alone. I know that doesn't always happen but...we can at least try...
 
No one is bit yet, Lori. It was a hypothetical question from a friend who trail runs who has been seeing rattlesnakes. So the possible snakes are EDB, timber (but I have never seen one of those here), copperhead (very infrequently seen) (but they like to sun in trails!) and numerous cottonmouths. Coral snakes, but they aren't going to be out wandering around during the day, striking at people. You'd have to trip and fall on one. The area in question is where I found the only coral snake ever, yet!!
 
The very best answer is don’t get bit in the first place. If running in an area where snakes are likely use extreme vigilance. But as Chris said, this isn’t a perfect world.

I agree with the others, if you’re bitten, a calm walk to the truck would probably be the best option. I think you’re most likely to be bitten in the foot or leg. I think (I’m assuming EDB) you will be experiencing some pretty intense pain before you get to the truck. The pain itself is going to increase your heart rate, along with the exertion of walking. But I still think getting to help is better than waiting for help.
 
Growing up with a lot of copperheads in my area, we were always told to keep the affected limb as still as possible, never use a tourniquet and to move slowly so as to keep your heart rate down. Also to keep the bitten extremity lower than the heart. No problem if it's your foot. We didn't have cell phones then, but only one friend was ever bitten, even though we'd find copperheads in our yards all the time.

Kudo's to your friend for being prepared. Hope s/he is never faced with the situation.
 
snakewispera snr said:
Maybe your friend should get a snake bite kit, to carry while out running.
That would buy the extra minutes needed.
Click to expand...

NO.

Those suction thingies in those kits are absolutely HORRIBLE for haemotoxic venom. They rupture blood vessels, and instead of getting the venom out, they actually open more avenues for the venom INTO the bloodstream via these ruptures. Horrible pieces of equipment for rattlesnake bites, IMO. They might work for an elapid, like a coral snake, but...I still wouldn't recommend it...
 
tyflier said:
NO.

Those suction thingies in those kits are absolutely HORRIBLE for haemotoxic venom. They rupture blood vessels, and instead of getting the venom out, they actually open more avenues for the venom INTO the bloodstream via these ruptures. Horrible pieces of equipment for rattlesnake bites, IMO. They might work for an elapid, like a coral snake, but...I still wouldn't recommend it...
Click to expand...

Don't think there much use for an elapid either. I only really know about australian elapids, but you just want to get a pressure bandage on as soon as possible, leaving the bite site undisturbed. That way they can use swabs to take venom samples for the antivenom.
 
tyflier said:
NO.

Those suction thingies in those kits are absolutely HORRIBLE for haemotoxic venom. They rupture blood vessels, and instead of getting the venom out, they actually open more avenues for the venom INTO the bloodstream via these ruptures. Horrible pieces of equipment for rattlesnake bites, IMO. They might work for an elapid, like a coral snake, but...I still wouldn't recommend it...
Click to expand...
I wasn't thinking of a suction thingy.... I was thinking of pressure bandages and an epipen....;)
 
The time you'd spend applying a bandage that wouldn't help much would be better spent getting closer to the car, by most accounts. An epipen? I'd personally pass, but some folks with allergic reactions might want one. The best snakebite treatment is still car keys. If that place is just crawling with rattlers, I either wouldn't run there, or would run shorter distances and make laps out of it, rather than getting an hour into the woods.
 
I've never personally seen rattlers there, just the coral and tons of black racers. It's more oak scrub/palmetto woods, with sink holes. The northern end of the park (where the mountain bike trails are) has open grassy/ raspberry fields, with rabbits, and that is where the rattlers/cottonmouths are. It's common to see either, there. It's called San Felasco Hammock Preserve.
 
When you are running your blood (heart rate) is going much faster. The bite from a venomous snake will most likely increase your excitement wich makes it almost impossible to calm down in a sense that will stop (or slowdown) venom in your blood system. My guess is going back your your car as fast as you can to seek help is your best option.
 
There are lots of trains of thought....

on this. There are lots of factors involved in a venomous bite. From the snake to you. You're physiology, did he get an artery, lots of factors.

There have been some really good advice so far and I can't rep any of you cause I haven't spread myself around enough. Chris, Wade, and Chip have done a good job here.

Stay calm is the best advice. And walk out. The only different steps I've heard is to stop every 20 minutes to rest and calm down. Although I 've never done it some will use a tourniquet they move upward when they stop to rest, to keep the venom from localizing but still keep from spreading rapidly. I think this is a crap shoot personally.
BTW, I've been hit three times by ED and never used a tourniquet. That was my choice. Luckily it was with captive ED with medical help around the corner.
My concern with Cottonmouths would be a bacterial infection. The eat alot of crap.
 
How many people die in year in the US from a venomous snake bite? Very few.. I would personally try not to freak as I know Loma Linda is a good couple hour drive for me.. I don't have the nice Insurance Provider like KJ, and I am would likely spend $7500 for a short ride..


Regards.. Tim of T and J
 
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