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Guns

Plus a shotgun. The good thing about shotguns is that everyone knows the sound they make - very intimidating!

Very true. Nothing loosens the bladder like the sound of a pump action shotgun in the dark when you might be the target.....except maybe the sound of a lever action on a Model 94 .30-30 when you know you are the target.....lol.
 
You need to remember that the ONLY people in the UK to regularly have guns are criminals and the military...
Yes the police sometimes have guns over here, but it's very seldom that we see them..
We see guns as death....

That is an interesting point that I’m surprised KJ missed. In the US we all have guns. The criminals know that and need to take it into consideration. It is also important to note that even though it is illegal for you to owe guns, your criminals still have them. Many Americans feel that if guns were illegal, criminals would turn all their guns in and start going to church.

I find it interesting that you would “see guns as death”. I have many guns. I shoot all the time. My wife and kids do as well. I don’t associate guns with death at all, at least not any more than I associate cars with death.

I gave my son a 22 rifle when he was 10 years old. He was given lots of supervision, instruction, and lots of rules. It was an instrument of his becoming a very responsible young man. I made him pay for his own ammunition because he was breaking me. He was shooting 1000 rounds a week. It was one of the smartest things I did as a parent.

Everyone has different reasons. I don’t think about defending myself, but I’m glad the guns are here and at the ready when needed. I love to hunt, birds mostly. Probably 90% of the shooting I do is at targets of one kind or another. But the real reason I have guns is because I like guns. I like the way they feel. I marvel at the workman ship. The accuracy of the machining and the way the action works so smoothly.

Death, no guns don’t have anything to do with death. When I drive my car, I don’t think about death. When I carve a steak I don’t think about death. When I see lightning or a rattlesnake I don’t think about death, do you?
 
Well the short answer as to why I have guns, much less .50 caliber rifles, is quite simply, because I can. At least now.

Now more generally, I believe most people have a desire to have some say in their destiny. A voice in the vote concerning their future. Quite frankly, there are some situations that are possible that having a firearm within reach can make a huge difference in your future. Do you have health insurance? Automobile insurance? Why? Do you buy such things because you wish to use them? Or do you have them in the hopes that you will never ever HAVE to use those policies for which you purchased them?

Having a firearm is just another form of insurance policy. The only catch, however, is that the policy is only in force and useful if the policy (firearm) is within reach at the time you need it. Do I hope to use it for which it is intended as a protection against? Nope, certainly not. But I'm pretty darn certain that if I ever do need to use that particular insurance policy, I'll be damned glad that I kept the premiums paid up.

Quite honestly, I carry a handgun just about everywhere I go. If it is not on my person, then the only time I am more than 5 steps away from one is when I am in the shower. Paranoid? Nope, I don't believe so. Just aware of the simple fact that should I ever need a gun (such as in a break in here at the house) it is quite unlikely that the perpetrators will be so kind as to give me substantial warning before the event takes place. Or perhaps someone will get the idea in their head that they would like to take my car from me why sitting at a stoplight. Or someone believes that they have some right to take money from me while walking across the parking lot at the shopping mall. It nearly all cases of such things, having a firearm readily accessible is about the only way I can say NO to someone's such plans and be able to make it stick. Yes, I may get hurt resisting, or even killed, but I'll be DAMNED if I will just put myself at the mercy of someone who already has demonstrated a disregard for the law, my welfare, and common decency without a fight.

Oh as for the .50 caliber rifles, heck they are just toys. I don't hunt at all. Well except the squirrels that have made the unfortunate decision to ravage my bamboo groves. If I ever retire and have the time available, there is a little bit of local extinction in store for those little tree rats.... But not with .50 caliber rifles. Not that I wouldn't want to, but this would be pretty much the epitome of the term "overkill".

Anyway, the .50 caliber rifles are just a hoot to shoot. And really, why should anyone need any more reason in the world to have something other than it is just fun to do?
 
Well guns for me is kind of a family tradition. Once we are old enough my dad would take us out to hunt dear, it made us feel like we were doing our part to help the family. (I grew up in Wyoming) My dad was in the military and I always thought it was so cool for him to be teaching me what he learned. He won all sorts of awards and went to sniper school. So I wanted to be as good as him. Shooting sports in 4-H is a blast, they teach control, and how to care for your rifle while having fun and competing against others. It is also family tradition to pass down certain rifles. My dad gave my fiancée a 12 gage shotgun which means a lot in our family. Then I was very lucky to get a 303 British rifle from WW2 (still has serial # on mag), and I also got an old Teddy Roosevelt golden spikes 30.30. The 303 is my favorite, put a scope on it and practice sniper shooting. Got a dear at 300 yards with it. Its a family thing, its fun, exhilarating, and a challenge. Its not just hitting a target. You have to account for wind, type of bullet, pulse, breathing. its like a puzzle that always changes.

I agree with BobbyHill, nothing relieves stress and calms you down like going out and shooting at some targets.:D
 
We are in the 21st century. The right to bare arms was written a gazillion years ago.

Yes and tyrrany isn't a 18th century penomenoun, just read today's headlines. Since last November's elections Americans have purchased enough firearms to equip the national armies of both China and India. More than 12 million guns. That says a lot.

Thomas Jefferson said it best:

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

It is interesting that even after 233 years others still have a hard time understanding the concepts of American liberty.
 
On thing to add is that people that carry get USED to having the gun. For people that have worn a watch for years, how do you feel if you leave your watch at home one day? Don't you keep trying to look at your watch and just feel like something isn't write. You hope you don't NEED the watch, but it feels like something is missing, right? Well, once you get used to carrying, you feel the same way. When you go somewhere that the gun isn't allowed, you leave it back in the car......and you feel like a part of you is missing. That isn't any more "sick" than a person who looks at their arm to tell the time even when they leave their watch at home: it is a comfortable habit. The only difference is that the firearm may save your life - a watch may, at best, just help you keep appointments and save your job.......lol.

because I can.

That really is a great answer.....and it's why I own some of the gun I do own!

Do I hope to use it for which it is intended as a protection against? Nope, certainly not. But I'm pretty darn certain that if I ever do need to use that particular insurance policy, I'll be damned glad that I kept the premiums paid up.

This reminds me of a story from one of Massad Ayoob's books (you probably read it, Rich, but this is for everyone else. Ayoob is a famous gun trainer and policeman. Amazing person with a handgun, too. This story is written out completely from memory, so I'm sure I have some of the minor details messed up a little bit. In other words, read it for the moral and not a biography of Ayoob's life.

When Ayoob was 13, his father gave him his first handgun. They owned a jewelry store, and armed robbery was a major problem. When he gave young Ayoob the handgun, he said something like, "I pray you never need to use this, but if you do, do not miss!" That's an important story because that's how sane gun owners (which are most of them in America) feel. We pray we never have use our firearms in self defense against a violent predator, but we also pray we planned ahead and have on in case the situation occurs. Like Rich was talking about, I pray I never need insurance for a major illness, but I still pay my insurance premiums every month JUST in case! It's preparedness and not paranoia.

Yes, I may get hurt resisting, or even killed, but I'll be DAMNED if I will just put myself at the mercy of someone who already has demonstrated a disregard for the law, my welfare, and common decency without a fight.

Well stated. Sure, a gun isn't an invincible shield, but I'd rather get hurt fighting with my boots on than make it EASY for a criminal to hurt me. As an adult responsible for my own well-being, I'd rather make a criminal work to hurt me or mine. Until the police can read the future and act proactively instead of reactively, nobody can protect me better than I can. As wade pointed out, outlawing guns doesn't take guns out of the hands of people who have shown they won't obey the law, anyway. Even if they could no longer get guns, they'd attack those who are smaller with clubs and knives (i.e., swords and Australia!). Can you outlaw EVERYTHING that a criminal could use to take advantage of a smaller "prey item" - I mean PEOPLE, of course? The only "real" reason for gun control is so that the government can make you dependent upon them AND so they don't have to worry about you resisting actions that they force upon you - it is not, and never has been, about making you safer.
 
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See? That right there is why...that guy would have had a gun in his face faster than he could blink...
 
Sounds liek a good time to quote The Nuge:

"I would rather this lady be alive and this carjacker dead....I'm WEIRD."
"I don't like repeat offenders. I like dead offenders."


That last one just about sums up my beliefs better than anything I could have said myself!
 
Another thought worth considering....

Homeland security begins at home.
 
Rich and KJ, I think your points are valid but I don’t think personal protection is the only reason or even the main reason to own a gun. I’ll admit that I don’t live in a high crime area, but I have never really worried about my home being invaded or my car being hijacked. I spend a lot of time in “the wilderness” and I carry a gun then, but I am thinking more about bears, mountain lions, and skunks. I think most people own guns because they like guns or they like shooting. Self defense is an added benefit.
 
Here's another quote I'm fond of.

"To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." - Ted Nugent
 
Umm, bad quote, wrong Ted, I am not unnatural, cheap, cowardly and pathetic because I do not choose to own a firearm.
Quite the opposite. Stop on by and try me....without your weapon. You might beat me, but you won't scare me.
 
I understand your logic, but it did not address my point.
I'll do it again for you. That does not make me unnatural, cheap, cowardly, and pathetic. It's the other guy (with the weapon) that is unnatural, cheap, cowardly, and pathetic. I lose in that case, but not from cowardice.
LOL
 
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I knew what you meant, but I wanted to point out the irony of saying you didn't mind being attacked by someone without weapons....lol. However, I'm not sure Ted meant JUST guns. Notice he says, "How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness." I'm not defenseless without my gun. I've just given up my best tool for defending myself. One shouldn't be defenseless even if stripped naked, blinded, and dropped in the middle of a foreign country surrounded by people who speak an unknown language. Guns are just a tool. The person is the weapon (as we've all heard it said before), and I'm pretty sure Ted meant that and more. Of course, he probably meant "gun" a lot by that statement, too.....lol. I can't even pretend to deny that. :)

Personally, I accept that entire quote as being part of the natural division of human society into sheep dogs, sheep (or sheeple), and wolves. It's unethical to be a wolf that preys on sheep, and sheep have the right to BE sheep....but don't expect sheepdogs to respect that decision. I am NOT saying this is how ted meant it, but it is how I think of that famous quote. Furthermore, the forefathers that originally penned the 2A meant for men of militia age to show up with their OWN weapon when their country needed them. Yes, the 2A had original implications that were stronger than just "you can if you want." Again, I can't say Ted was thinking about that in his quote, but I firmly believe Ted (based on everything else he has said and done) believes we SHOULD all follow the original intent of the 2A.

Ted also said, "it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence." You didn't say anything about that, so is one to assume you agree with that part of the statement and only take offense at the second part?

KJ
 
"...And really, why should anyone need any more reason in the world to have something other than it is just fun to do?" (Rich Z.)

Exactly! Nobody really NEEDS a pet reptile, much less a giant python or venomous snake. But if a citizen can safely keep and enjoy a python, gun, or pretty much anything else in their pursuit of happiness, without harming anyone else, then what other reason should we need?

When you start legislating away rights / freedoms that you personally don't feel the need for, you will find lots of other people who don't think that your "odd" interests are really needed either, and they will also be legislated away as well.
 
We live out in 'the boonies', so to speak. We have over a dozen guns in the house, here. Just over half of them are shotguns and rifles, for both hunting and livestock purposes. (Ever had a rescue horse that needed to be put down? We have.) The other half are handguns. They spend 90% of their time locked up in a gun cabinet with a glass front.

The ones that are not locked up are the two in the bedroom. There is a .45 in the closet, in a locked gun briefcase. The key hangs on the wall over the bed. The other is in my fiance's work bag, because he carries it at work every day. It's a Taurus Judge, loaded with 410 shotgun shells and .45 long colts.

This entire family is pretty much military. His father is retired Army, an MP and a soldier for years, and is currently overseas in Afghanistan as a civilian contractor, working with base security systems. I'm a USAF veteran, with some training in security forces. The fiance has been shooting since he was a kid. No one here is afraid of firearms.

My view on firearms is that they are tools, but tools whose primary purpose is to cause death. Every time I go to the range, I am aware of the fact that I am practicing to kill someone or something. It is a sobering awareness. I don't have a CCP at the moment because we don't have a handgun small enough for me to comfortably use and carry. When we find one, and are able to afford it, I will get my CCP. I'll be the first to admit I don't like guns, but I feel a responsibility to know how to use them effectively and in as safe a manner as possible.

I can completely understand how someone from a different culture might think we're all scary, or that our insistence on owning weapons is odd. It's just the way it is here, though. I feel much more comfortable with them than I would without.
 
Great discussion guys.
You haven't convinced me yet, but I can see your point....Blinkered though it is... LOL
This comes down to a real culture divide, we drive on the left you shoot burglars... ;)
I could of quoted all of you on certain points, but it would just be splitting hairs, and I would of been typing questions and remarks all night. :D
Like I said earlier, I have used fire arms and I have done a lot of shooting.. I'm a bloody good shot actually, so I understand/know about weapons..
A lot of people I know have guns, but not in the sense you guys have them....
Farmers and country folk have rifles for foxes etc.... But hand guns are banned in the UK... The tragedy in '96 put pay to owning hand guns and semi automatic weapons...
So my colonial cousins... I am going to try and convince you all to drive on the left.....You all carry on and convince me about guns.... It's a very interesting read to say the least....
And Alan..... You are being made an honorary Welsh man for your views.... ;)
And Rich... I would love to try a shot with that 50 calibre... but cans only.... LOL
 
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