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co housing snakes

do you agree with co housing snakes?

  • Total voters
    266
My snakes appear fine
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Thats precisely the reason I dont co-hab. I have absolutely ano idea what a snake who is "fine" or "happy" looks like. Does anyone here? You guys that have worked with corns for 20+ years, what are signs of stress besides not eating. I just dont have the time or the patience to sit there and monitor who is squeezing who. Dogs and cats I get when theyre happy and fine.....snakes, no idea.
 
jazzgeek said:
Y'know, if someone states they'd prefer an "environment as natural as possible" for their snakes, I've got a hint:

(The snakes don't know for "natural". They have itty-bitty pea brains.)

I'm all for aesthetics. I prefer to see an aquarium that's well decorated, and I can understand the desire to do the same for one's snakes. But please, understand that you're doing it for yourself more than anything.
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Thats mean :(

Then why do we have hides? Isnt it because its natural for them to seek somewhere dark and hidden? I dont agree with, they dont know natural....by using heat mats, aspen for burrowing, hides, vines and brush those of which have been recommended here over and over for vivs we are mimicking what is "natural" for them, arent we?
 
JustineNYC said:
I just dont have the time or the patience to sit there and monitor who is squeezing who. Dogs and cats I get when theyre happy and fine.....snakes, no idea.
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Well Justine, if they're anything like the Labs we own....I've got a couple of snakes who are VERY happy to see me when I put my hand in their tub.

They wag their tails, very quickly. That must mean they're very happy!! ;)

regards,
jazz
 
JustineNYC said:
Then why do we have hides? Isnt it because its natural for them to seek somewhere dark and hidden? I dont agree with, they dont know natural....by using heat mats, aspen for burrowing, hides, vines and brush those of which have been recommended here over and over for vivs we are mimicking what is "natural" for them, arent we?
Click to expand...

I think we'll need to make the distinction between "natural environment" and "instinctual behavior". :shrugs:

regards,
jazz
 
jazzgeek said:
Well Justine, if they're anything like the Labs we own....I've got a couple of snakes who are VERY happy to see me when I put my hand in their tub.

They wag their tails, very quickly. That must mean they're very happy!! ;)

regards,
jazz
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Ah yes, I have a tail wagger too :rofl:
 
My opinion is that yes, changes DO cause stress, even GOOD changes. (I read a study once about humans who had terrible luck - such as a spouse dying, and great luck - such as winning the lottery. And the stress levels and consequences, such as heart attacks, etc, for the really good luck were surprisingly in line with stress levels for those with the really bad luck!) And that many stressful changes can EVENTUALLY become normal for the snake so that changing from THAT is stressful. For example, I believe that if 2 snakes have lived together for a long time successfully (don't ask what a "long time is - probably many, many months or years), then they have probably gotten very used to the cagemate and separating them will be TEMPORARILY stressful, just as changing to a different cage, substrate, or a new home is temporarily stressful.

If you receive 2 snakes that have been living together successfully for the past year and seem to be 100% healthy, my advice would probably be to try to change little or nothing for the first month. Try to keep them in the same cage, substrate, temps, etc, as long as nothing seems too absurd (way too hot or cold, etc). Then after a month of eating and digesting well (the most obvious signs of a thriving corn), it is time to separate them, but keep all other conditions similar to what they are used to. After several weeks of individually eating and digesting well, then it is time to make other changes, such as different substrate (if you don't like what was being used), more handling, etc. Then the changes come slowly instead of all at once.

Some might argue that the first month of cohabbing could bring a disaster, and that is true. But everything should be evaluated on a "likely cost vs. likely benefit" basis. And if they had been cohabbing successfully for a year, then my opinion would be that the likelihood of a disaster in the first month vs. likelihood of extra stress in the first month, weighs in with leaving them together while they adjust to their new home. After the first month, then they would get separated. And of course, if any signs of stress or other problems popped up during that cohabbing month (not eating, regurging, or ??), then they would get separated right away.

That is just my opinion - others may disagree. But it seems logical to me.
 
Thank you

kathylove said:
My opinion is that yes, changes DO cause stress, even GOOD changes. (I read a study once about humans who had terrible luck - such as a spouse dying, and great luck - such as winning the lottery. And the stress levels and consequences, such as heart attacks, etc, for the really good luck were surprisingly in line with stress levels for those with the really bad luck!) And that many stressful changes can EVENTUALLY become normal for the snake so that changing from THAT is stressful. For example, I believe that if 2 snakes have lived together for a long time successfully (don't ask what a "long time is - probably many, many months or years), then they have probably gotten very used to the cagemate and separating them will be TEMPORARILY stressful, just as changing to a different cage, substrate, or a new home is temporarily stressful.

If you receive 2 snakes that have been living together successfully for the past year and seem to be 100% healthy, my advice would probably be to try to change little or nothing for the first month. Try to keep them in the same cage, substrate, temps, etc, as long as nothing seems too absurd (way too hot or cold, etc). Then after a month of eating and digesting well (the most obvious signs of a thriving corn), it is time to separate them, but keep all other conditions similar to what they are used to. After several weeks of individually eating and digesting well, then it is time to make other changes, such as different substrate (if you don't like what was being used), more handling, etc. Then the changes come slowly instead of all at once.

Some might argue that the first month of cohabbing could bring a disaster, and that is true. But everything should be evaluated on a "likely cost vs. likely benefit" basis. And if they had been cohabbing successfully for a year, then my opinion would be that the likelihood of a disaster in the first month vs. likelihood of extra stress in the first month, weighs in with leaving them together while they adjust to their new home. After the first month, then they would get separated. And of course, if any signs of stress or other problems popped up during that cohabbing month (not eating, regurging, or ??), then they would get separated right away.

That is just my opinion - others may disagree. But it seems logical to me.
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Thank you for the advice. That seems like common sense to me. During this initial period of leaving them together, I will work on getting enough tanks to house them all seperately. I will watch them close after seperating them to be sure they each continue to eat normal and act normal.

Thank you all for the ideas and advice. It is greatly appreciated.
 
We need to pattern captive conditions after natural conditions. Corns live alone in nature, so should be kept alone in captivity. Garters and ribbonsnakes often live in groups, so cohabbing them should be fine. Depends on the species, but IMHO it's a big no-no with corns, only exception a breeding pair when you're breeding them. The first indication of a problem may be having only one snake some morning when you had two the night before. That's definitely not worth the risk.
 
No you should not,,,,,,HOWEVER

Greetings all,

To the Thread starter, The True answer is no......
Now for the However

During breeding season after the first waking up from Brumation or cooling time, Its natural for snakes to interact, now its kind of an one night date if you'll catch my drift, in the wild. Me myself if I have a pair of corns that don't lock up right away(maybe she doesn't like his cologne:laugh:) I leave them in over night and separate them in the morning. But that is temperamental no snake should be housed together because of more then one reason, cannibalism being one but i assure you there are more. If your looking for a space saver, try sweater boxes in a rack like most of us breeders do. Just keep in mind you need plenty of air holes, a good fit to the box/shelf, these little critters seem like they have all read The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas.
Any way spend some time reading through these treads in this website, You will learn more then you need to know.

Have Fun and as always
Be Well

George D.
DragonSpawn

WWW.HerpPros.com (under Construction:twohammer)
[email protected]:D
 
I forgot to add...........

During breeding season after the first waking up from Brumation or cooling time,


I should have added also, after their first shed, not when you just take them out.

TTFN:)
 
Well if I have to take massive leaps like that to understand... I mean come on I'm only a student most of my brain cells have been drunk away by now. Lol
 
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