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What to feed a larger corn?

jessicalb

jessicalb

New member
Our snow, Ark, is 586 grams and we have had him on rats for a while. I have read that rats are too fatty so I figured we'd go back to large mice, but large mice are so tiny compared to the size of a small rat. So what do you do for your big snakes if rats are not a good option?

The Munson plan has this to say:

-Adult (20-30g) every 7-x days (Snake = 170+) See below.

Note: Adult females are fed more frequently than adult males (especially following brumation). Adult females are fed every 7-12 days; adult males are fed every 11-14 days
Click to expand...

So my choices are ... put Ark back on mice that seem incredibly small, or maybe go for double mice? Or stay with rats and make sure he gets out and exercises every day? I am going to put in a big RodentPro order soon, so I want to get this right. :)

I don't know his sex for sure, so I figured we'd go with feeding about every 12 days. We have no current plans to breed or anything.

Thanks!
 
I guess it depends on whether the weight is muscle or fat. If it's muscle, then maybe rats are working for him? Personally I never feed any of mine anything larger than an adult mouse, but that's what's always worked for me. I've avoided rats for the same reason that you're thinking of swapping back.

If you want to go back to mice, it will depend on what size of mouse you're talking about. You could always go for one adult mouse every 7 days and see what happens? The Munson Plan isn't a set of hard-and-fast rules, just a good starting framework that you can tweak as you see fit.
 
Does look a bit on the large side to me, but that might just be natural for him.

Muscle tone isn't really possible to judge from a pic - it's all about how he feels when you pick him up. Does he feel taut and tense along his entire length, or does he feel softer?
 
bitsy said:
Does look a bit on the large side to me, but that might just be natural for him.

Muscle tone isn't really possible to judge from a pic - it's all about how he feels when you pick him up. Does he feel taut and tense along his entire length, or does he feel softer?
Click to expand...

Honestly, it's really hard for me to say. He is the only adult corn I have ever handled, except for one about 4 years ago at the pet store to be sure I could deal with owning a snake. ;) He feels fine to me but I just have no basis for comparison.

I think I am going to try feeding adult mice more often and see how that goes. We are also making it a priority to have him out of his tank for 45 minutes or more every day that he can be handled, to get him more active.

Thanks for the comments and ideas everyone!
 
tsthompson said:
Adult mice are a better choice. Jumbo mice & rats have too much fat content.
Click to expand...

Do XL mice really suffer the same problem? If so that's a bit of a revelation for me seeing as I have a 4 foot 5 year old female that weighs in at 742 grams. Yes she is over weight and so instead of adopting the old owners "one small adult rat every 7 days" method we dropped to one XL mouse every 10.

If we go by rodentpro, a small adult rat is between 45 and 84 grams.

However an XL mouse is 30-50 grams. This means the absolute largest mouse you can buy from them will still only be the size of the smallest adult rats they sell. This doesn't clarify what % of weight is fat, but the rats certainly hold more potential for a higher % fat I would think.

Is there any research you could link for me or others that discloses this information? I find it very interesting!
 
The XL mice from RodentPro are retired breeders. They have really big bellies! which account for a good deal of their size. The large adult mice aren't too much smaller, but they are mostly males and are much more lean than the retired females. I'm not sure how that relates to fat content unless the XL females carry extra fat from their pregnancies.
 
BigByrd47119 said:
However an XL mouse is 30-50 grams. This means the absolute largest mouse you can buy from them will still only be the size of the smallest adult rats they sell. This doesn't clarify what % of weight is fat, but the rats certainly hold more potential for a higher % fat I would think.

Is there any research you could link for me or others that discloses this information? I find it very interesting!
Click to expand...

Rodentpro has a breakdown of nutrients of feeder animals. I can't remember who originally linked it in one of last week's threads discussing mice v. rats for nutrients, but I made sure to bookmark it :D
 
I've always fed my corns adult or large adult mice, with (very rarely) quail when rodentpro would have sales on them...10-14 days for adult males has always worked for me...Captive kept corns just don't burn calories like w/c ones would...Bitsy makes a good point with the Munson Plan also...Dean set that up as a guide, not a hard and fast "rule" that has to be strictly adhered to...
 
jess, i would probably go with an adult mouse. a snake does not need a meal that leaves a big lump in them(i know you didnt state this) to get enough to eat. especially if the snake is that big, older snakes dont need fed as often as babies or yearlings. if you feel he/she is not getting enough, you could always give him two adult mice every ten days, instead of one every seven. i know this may sound silly, but for an adult...that extra mouse and spreading it out to three extra days may be perfect.
 
jessicalb said:
Here are some recent pictures of Ark. People in that thread said they didn't think he was fat, just big, but honestly I don't have enough experience to know.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111299

Maybe we'll try the one adult mouse every week idea. Thank you! :)
Click to expand...

that snake is perfectly proportioned in my opinion...no "fat folds" where he is bent...you will always see wrinkles, but a fat snake will have "rolly polly rolls"...i think he looks good
 
Thanks, Rick! I am going to confirm that he will take mice and then hopefully make a big order from RodentPro. :)
 
A big adult male like that definitely does NOT need a mouse every week. Every 2 weeks or so. One mouse that you're feeding now is enough. If he starts losing weight, do two mice.

You CAN do rats. Fat = energy, so just feed less often, like once every 3-4 weeks.
 
A little off-topic, but does anyone know if corns are more likely to accept a f/t rat if they are used to live mice? I cannot convince him that the thawed mouse is alive, it's ridiculous. And the only place to get live feeders is Petco. Obviously I want to avoid that if possible.
 
dan803 said:
A little off-topic, but does anyone know if corns are more likely to accept a f/t rat if they are used to live mice? I cannot convince him that the thawed mouse is alive, it's ridiculous. And the only place to get live feeders is Petco. Obviously I want to avoid that if possible.
Click to expand...

What was the snake previously fed live mice?

Its my understanding that Corns and BP's are highly susceptible to imprinting on a particular food item, with some BP's known to imprint on the the pattern/color of mice or rats.

There are several threads all around the site that detail different ways of enticing a corn into feeding and I would think that the same tactics could be used to switch your corn over to F/T if thats the issue. My first attempt at any of those tactics would be to make sure the mouse is really good and warm (not dangerously so) by aiming for a mouses natural body temperature. Most sites I see suggest 98 degrees as an average temp in this case.
 
I'll make sure it's hotter. I didn't know corns sense heat that well. He acts interested, following it around when I dangle with tongs but never strikes!
 
tsthompson said:
Adult mice are a better choice. Jumbo mice & rats have too much fat content.
Click to expand...
Now I am confused - I was recently told that it's the opposite, at least regarding rats. This guy I met recently who is an animal awareness teacher and well experienced in the herp field for about 20 years now, told me to get my corns on rat pups as soon as they're big enough as they have more protein than pinks/mice, and that pinks/mice have a higher fat percentage...now I am not so sure. Clearly, both statements can't be true - so which is it? Rats fattier or mice fattier?
 
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