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A little rant on courtesy and professionalism

I too have notice the mob attacks lately. But some of the attacks are very provoked by certain non contributing members. They consistently give bad advice, are rude and insulting then turn around and report people for attacking them. Of course it's not any fault of their own.<--sarcasm

Not all questions should be met with an attack. Apparently the person asking the question cares some what about the animal, that's why their asking. Some times I ask questions that if I really thought about it, probably could have answered my self. But I would be greatly turned against this site if every thing I asked was met with insulting answers.

For the most part I try to help any one I can. If I am unsure of an answer I don't answer. During my short time here there's only been a couple confrontations that I've been involved in. And I eventually just stop replying because I get aggrivated.

Now..I'm going to use the "SEARCH" function for "Wayne". LOL :duck:
 
EDIT: I do hope I'm not overstepping any boundaries by posting this... I usually don't post in the "insider's forum"

That shining thing under your name says, post whenever you like, especially in the Insiders Club. Great first post. Welcome!:wavey:

I was thinking about what Rich posted and he's dead on. Think of how many inventions/innovations are made by people who haven't yet filled their brains with the standard operating procedures. They just think outside the envelope because they don't know any other way. Great new take on an old subject.
Terri
 
There are two areas that will guarantee you a quick death. Substrate and Cohabitation. If you are foolish enough to admit that you cohab your snakes on cedar shavings, I can promise the entire population of the planet will call you a dipstick. You’re toast!

The problem with that is that many new snake owners only know what they were told at the pet store and many pet stores give that kind of advise. Then they come here and get run over buy a train before they even get their feet on the ground. I’ve seen people get run off this forum before they even introduce themselves.

And the funny thing is, both of these subjects are totally confusulled with Internet bull. There is no real serious evidence that snakes are dying from bad substrate. Cedar has been shown to effect the livers of mice and rats. These are animals that constantly chew on the substrate. There are no studies on pine shavings. But if you use them 200 zealous newbees will attack you with religious fervor. “Your snakes are going to die a horrible death, TODAY.” And you will go to hell.

I think most people think cohabiting is bad. It probably is. But many people do it. And when a kid comes home from the pet store with his new pets, he has spent every dime to his name. He just bought a leaker aquarium, a heat lamp, a hot rock, a bag of cedar shavings and two beautiful cornsnakes. Now don’t tell him to throw have of that stuff away and go out and buy more stuff. His snakes won’t die this week or next. Give him some guidance and gently explain a better way. And suggest he get another tank sometime in the near future.

At least that is what I am going to do the next time I get a chance.
 
There were two posts yesterday, with totally different styles, and they were answered totally different...
One asked about snakes on a branch... They were co-hab'd with slightly wrong temps. The OP was given advice which they took on board, and started to put thing right straight away. No drama, 60 posts and not a crossed word....
Then the video thread..... What a difference.....

I think the pack only comes out when the OP won't back down, and more to the point gets abusive....
 
Thanks for the replies.. The rant wasn't just about how the seasoned members attack newbies, it was also about the newbies that refuse to listen to wisdom from experience. Both are aggravating and both show a lack of "common courtesy" <---oxymoron since it is really not that common. I have seen it go both ways. And usually the persons' posting style, spelling, and reaction to other posters has a great deal to do with how they are perceived,
The "goodbye thread" was extremely hard not to pounce on I have to admit.. I did have to go and post a link. Seems I can't even take my own advice and stay above the fray!
 
The "goodbye thread" was extremely hard not to pounce on I have to admit.. I did have to go and post a link. Seems I can't even take my own advice and stay above the fray!
Buy why should you...... Sometimes the only way to get through to people is to pounce on them and/or be rude....
I've been on the receiving end of the mob and it doesn't hurt to step back and look at why/what they are saying...
 
I see both sides of this issue, I think I've been one of those who've jumped on the newb bashing bandwagon, but in most instances I've tried to be neutral and only post something constructive to the situation. Some threads I've stayed away from completely as far as posting, but have read avidly. I've tried to be "professional" as much as possible, but some people have really irritated me.
 
I think we're all going to hell. I'll drive.
smiley-transport014.gif
 
Well, Jen, I just got through typing a long verbose poetic reply to your OP, and I got logged out and lost it, because it was so long before I clicked "post reply".
Anyhoo. Thanks for the OP.
I've been thinking about it ever since I read it yesterday.
I don't take it as an admonishment, but as a logical, gentle, and timely reminder of forum etiquette.
 
There are two areas that will guarantee you a quick death. Substrate and Cohabitation. If you are foolish enough to admit that you cohab your snakes on cedar shavings, I can promise the entire population of the planet will call you a dipstick. You’re toast!

The problem with that is that many new snake owners only know what they were told at the pet store and many pet stores give that kind of advise. Then they come here and get run over buy a train before they even get their feet on the ground. I’ve seen people get run off this forum before they even introduce themselves.

Yep. Did you know that I lost my second corn to egg binding when she was just 18 months old?
The pet store told me I could keep them together, after all, they kept all their breeders together, not just by pairs either, they had about seven adult snakes of mixed sex all together. They also told me that the male would not be fertile unless he was brumated, so even when I witnessed mating behavior I didn't separate them because I was told he was shooting blanks.
At the time there was not a lot of info to find on keeping cornsnakes so I followed the advice of the pet store. (When I finally found the KS forums I thought I won the knowledge lottery) I don't think many of us are put on this planet knowing that the people who sell you a pet can give some of the worst advice ever. I don't think taking a pet stores advice is a mistake worthy of being shamed. There is a lot more info out there now, but still most people rely on the pet store for info and don't research until they are in trouble. Then again, like I said before, the people asking for advice have to be ready to accept it and not become inflammitory. It's great to ask why and for back up on reasoning, but don't say "I already heard something different, this is what I WANT to believe and the rest of you are losers for telling me different."
I recently bought fish from a store that specializes in fish and I told them these fish were going into the same tank and they gladly sold them to me. Now I'm doing some research and I'm being told to expect world war 3 in my tank. :angry01: I know I should have known better.
 
Okay when I first joined up in 04 I was kind of a newby and I know I made my share of dumb posts. So in the almost five years I have lived and learned and kind of grown. My breeding operation has grown, my sales have picked up a bit each year, my collection is much bigger than it once was. I am sure if I went back and read some of the stuff I posted when I was first starting out it would make me cringe.
Maybe it's asking too much, but I feel as if you kind of have to pay your dues and it takes time to make a name for yourself. Even if you don't plan to sell snakes but only keep them, are you that qualified to give advice when you are new to the game? Is it too much to ask that when someone who clearly has been doing this for a long time, makes a post they get the bit of respect and courtesy they have earned? If you read something in a book or a pet store owner tells you it's true but someone like Kathy Love is saying something different, could it possibly be that they know better? Is it really necessary to be belligerent and challenge them?
Oh and that professionalism should work both ways. If you see a newby getting hammered for some wrong doing, is it always necessary to jump on the bandwagon? I assure you plenty of people will be along to berate them for their cohabbing or whatever mistake they made. Just because you have been around a while does not make you such a better person, you most likely made the same mistakes and someone set you straight. Always remember they could be your next customer.
It just gets so frustrating sometimes to read some of what goes on in this forum, maybe it is the winter cabin fever thing but lately it seems like there's been a lot of this kind of thing. End of rant.

Great post! I haven't posted much here over the years because of those reasons. What you spoke of in your post has been going on since I signed up here back in early 05.

When I first came here the big controversy was feeding schedules. Back then if you fed your snake more than once a week you were called an evil "power feeder".

I remember Dean "the moderator" getting ripped over this, along with many others. Dean was a self proclaimed novice at the time, but because he documented what he was doing we now have the "Munson Plan". As far as I was concerned he got ripped by noobs that had never "read" what Dean was doing in their cornsnake manual, or Veterans that didn't "believe" or had never tried what he was doing.

Another example... I remember when Vinman came out of the closet with his pork, chicken and beef feedings. It was a blood bath! I thought Vinman was a revolutionary, but you had corn noobs quoting cornsnake manual "scripture" to him. "YOU CAN'T DO THAT!", they told him!

You gotta love the corn noob that can quote cornsnake manual... book, line and verse to set the veteran straight. I believe Kathy Love stepped in at the time and said that Vinman's idea was the foundation of the "Snake Sausage" product. The blood letting was less after that but it showed the essence of this corn community. Which is pack/flock mentality over knowledge.

I'm sorry! I gotta through this in here. LOL What about the time a corn noob ripped Stephen AKA Steve Wagner for selling a "neon" snow for a hundred bucks. That was a classic! That corn noob did a lot of ripping! LOL

I am an out side of the box thinker. I always think to myself "There has got to be a better way". There is nothing wrong with that. Just like there is nothing wrong with I read so there for it is.

I love Rich Z. post! He talks about noobs discovering "new things". What about the Veterans that discover new things? I think there is a lot that gets dismissed because it is "against the grain". It gets subcategorized under the "Crazy Corn" breeder.

I was doing some feeding schedule "experiments" back in 04, but never shared them because of all the "power feeding" BS that was going on at the time.
 
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Great post! I haven't posted much here over the years because of those reasons. What you spoke of in your post has been going on since I signed up here back in early 05. When I first came here the big controversy was feeding schedules. Back then if you fed your snake more than once a week you were called an evil "power feeder". I remember Dean "the moderator" getting ripped over this, along with many others. Dean was a self proclaimed novice at the time, but because he documented what he was doing we now have the "Munson Plan". As far as I was concerned he got ripped by noobs that had never "read" what Dean was doing in their cornsnake manual, or Veterans that didn't "believe" or had never tried what he was doing.

Another example... I remember when Vinman came out of the closet with his pork, chicken and beef feedings. It was a blood bath! I thought Vinman was a revolutionary, but you had corn noobs quoting cornsnake manual "scripture" to him. "YOU CAN'T DO THAT!", they told him!

You gotta love the corn noob that can quote cornsnake manual... book, line and verse to set the veteran straight. I believe Kathy Love stepped in at the time and said that Vinman's idea was the foundation of the "Snake Sausage" product. The blood letting was less after that but it showed the essence of this corn community. Which is pack/flock mentality over knowledge.

I'm sorry! I gotta through this in here. LOL What about the time a corn noob ripped Stephen AKA Steve Wagner for selling a "neon" snow for a hundred bucks. That was a classic! That corn noob did a lot of ripping! LOL

I am an out side of the box thinker. I always think to myself "There has got to be a better way". There is nothing wrong with that. Just like there is nothing wrong with I read so there for it is.

I love Rich Z. post! He talks about noobs discovering "new things". What about the Veterans that discover new things? I think there is a lot that gets dismissed because it is "against the grain". It gets subcategorized under the "Crazy Corn" breeder.

I was doing some feeding schedule "experiments" back in 04, but never shared them because of all the "power feeding" BS that was going on at the time.

That's the post of the month for me, well said.
 
I'll just add that I've read some new posts recently dragging up and critisising Vinman over his feeding experiments. Which have angered and saddened me. I've got 2 beautiful corns bred by him, living proof that his methods produce healthy stock. I'm proud that he's my friend. I don't always agree with what he says, but we discuss and disagree without rattling each other' chains.
 
There are two areas that will guarantee you a quick death. Substrate and Cohabitation. If you are foolish enough to admit that you cohab your snakes on cedar shavings, I can promise the entire population of the planet will call you a dipstick. You’re toast!

And the funny thing is, both of these subjects are totally confusulled with Internet bull.

I think most people think cohabiting is bad. It probably is. But many people do it.

(Bolding is mine)

Funny thing about cohabbing is the zoo I worked for (Riverbanks Zoo in Columbia, SC...origin of the Lava Corn) has been cohabbing their corns for YEARS without ever having a single problem. Many are F1 and F2 from wild caught snakes that used to be on display and there are both sexes in the display. In fact, they produce fertile eggs EVERY year with no brumation. Also, when I was curator of the my undergrad university live animal collection, we cobabbed corns for several years and got fertile eggs as well. No apparent problems were observed.

Let me be honest, though, I am not suggesting cohabbing is the way to go and it probably shouldn't be the norm, but it is not always the worst thing on earth either. I agree, baby corns might not take it as well but it seems once there is some size on them it can occur without many complications.
 
[chain rattling]I've yet to see any evidence/proof that feeding breast and/or leg meat from a chicken is as healthy as feeding whole mice or rats.[/chain rattling]

The issue with the vinsters "feeding practice" was that it's not an effective replacement for the nutritional value found in feeding whole prey items. You want to use it as a supplement or save some extra cash doing it that way? Fine, be my guest. You want to tell me that it replaces feeding mice or rats? Your dead wrong and your snakes health will eventually suffer for it.

D80
 
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