ACR names and registrations

[batwrangler]

I've been poking around the ACR in preparation for registering my snakes and I notice that the registry (unlike many other animal registries) allows for the renaming of animals: if "XYZ Corns" registered an animal as "XYZ's 001" and then sold that animal to "ZZY Colubrids", "ZZY" could rename that snake "ZZY's 200".

On the one hand, I can see wanting to use your in-house aquisition number for all the animals you have/breed. On the other hand, it seems really strange to apply your own snakery's name to an animal produced by someone else -- that's certainly not the way dog breeders, for example, use kennel names.

So how do you name/number your animals? Do you change names/numbers when you aquire registered animals from other breeders. Why?

 

[Drizzt80]

So how do you name/number your animals? Do you change names/numbers when you aquire registered animals from other breeders. Why?

Edit: Oops, guess I should have answered your questions. I named and numbered my animals according to my in house numbering technique which inolves year-#ofmorph-morphlettering. For example, 02-005-AM is a 2002 hatched snake, AM is for Amel, and 005 is the 5th amel I've had in my collection. I have two snakes in my collection that were registered by someone else that I acquired . . . I did not reregister or change their registered names.

Why? see my other comments below.

I no longer register any of my snakes. I registered some animals when it was originally free to do so, kind of a novelty, but as a breeder it's a ridiculous waste of money and there's no payoff for breeders that ""advertise"" the service to customers . . . in my opinion.

As a service for tracking lineage, it's no more accurate than trusting the person you're buying from.

D80

 

[ghosthousecorns]

I have had mixed feelings about it myself. I have sold a lot of babies with the stickers for the new owner to register them and to date ONE person has done so.
Meanwhile, it gets spendy to register all my new animals. I have all these serpenco out of eggers (technically to the ACR they'd be from unregistered stock even if it's a well known breeder) that will cost $10 each. And even my own keepers with preregistration stickers, $5 apiece. Even when the bulk registration lowers the price that's still a chunk of change. I just don't have the 100 to 150 dollars it would take to get updated papers for everything and I have been rethinking it. On the one hand it's a great idea to be able to keep track of bloodlines, but OTOH ouch to my wallet...I'll probably be holding off on registering a lot of mine until they reach adult size and breed, so I can still offer the stickers on the hatchlings I sell without going broke registering every animal I have.
As far as the original question, I guess if you get a snake with a really silly name that you hate it won't hurt to change it, the ACR will still have the record of who produced it - that doesn't change.

 

[batwrangler]

I no longer register any of my snakes. I registered some animals when it was originally free to do so, kind of a novelty, but as a breeder it's a ridiculous waste of money and there's no payoff for breeders that ""advertise"" the service to customers . . . in my opinion.

As a service for tracking lineage, it's no more accurate than trusting the person you're buying from.

D80

I have just enough snakes to get bulk registration discounts and yet not have to spend lots of money for the registrations.

I'm aware of the accuracy limits on the system (and even the AKC can't vouch for its registrations), but it's nice to have an easily accessible database, and it's a convenient off-site back-up for my own records.

 

[Drizzt80]

I have just enough snakes to get bulk registration discounts and yet not have to spend lots of money for the registrations.

I'm aware of the accuracy limits on the system (and even the AKC can't vouch for its registrations), but it's nice to have an easily accessible database, and it's a convenient off-site back-up for my own records.

Hey no problem. To each their own. At $3 a snake for off-site backup, I have a 512mb USB drive that works great!! I also added more information specific to your questions to my original post . . .

D80

 

[toyah]

I've been poking around the ACR in preparation for registering my snakes and I notice that the registry (unlike many other animal registries) allows for the renaming of animals: if "XYZ Corns" registered an animal as "XYZ's 001" and then sold that animal to "ZZY Colubrids", "ZZY" could rename that snake "ZZY's 200".

I'm glad someone posted that as I noticed it and found it really odd - changing the name, sure, I can sort of see that (if an animal hasn't been bred from), but changing the prefix? Ridiculous! If someone tried to relabel an animal I had bred in any other species with someone else's affix then I would go nuts.

I like the idea of the ACR, but I just don't think it's particularly workable with the way snakes are bred. To be honest I'd prefer to just see breeders giving out pedigrees with snakes where possible ... but even then, unless/until there is a culture of exhibiting snakes like people do with small animals, dogs, cats, etc, even that has no real major bonuses and so probably will not become the norm quickly.

So how do you name/number your animals? Do you change names/numbers when you aquire registered animals from other breeders. Why?

My snakes all have names, rather than numbers. I do give hatchlings their own "code" which goes along with it to the new owner - that means if the person gets back to me, I have more to go on than "you remember, the normal hatchling I bought in 2007".

Just because it doesn't seem "the norm" I don't usually bother with prefixes on websites etc, but certainly for my own records I have (for example) Strawberry down on my notes as Lexcorn Strawberry, and I'd have Barzona down as Serpenco Barzona.

 

[batwrangler]

Hey no problem. To each their own. At $3 a snake for off-site backup, I have a 512mb USB drive that works great!! I also added more information specific to your questions to my original post . . .

D80

I figure another $3 for a snake I've already paid $30-$60 just to have shipped to me isn't that big a deal; Plus I tried free/shareware pedigree programs and various on-paper solutions when I was hobby-breeding fancy rats and none of those worked for me.

I've also had enough tech problems that having my data on two computers, an external hard-drive, a USB-drive, and a backup cd isn't enough... Call me paranoid.

 

[Nanci]

I think it's weird that you can rename snakes, but just like if you buy a registered horse or dog that is already named, what if you hate the name? With the ACR, at least you can change it! So I have two adults that I am going to transfer and change the names of to my ACR breeder name, and then their own name. I have so few I don't need to use their ACR number in the name. So my snakes will all be registered as Snickersnakes Bacon, Snickersnakes Lily, and so on. I totally support the ACR and the whole registry idea, although I know some larger breeders have lost interest in it. I find it interesting, at least, to be able to see photos of my snakes' ancestors.

 

[batwrangler]

I'm glad someone posted that as I noticed it and found it really odd - changing the name, sure, I can sort of see that (if an animal hasn't been bred from), but changing the prefix? Ridiculous! If someone tried to relabel an animal I had bred in any other species with someone else's affix then I would go nuts.

I think it would make more sense to have a permanent registered name plus a changeable call name, although the ACR does have a change-tracking field as part of the online records.

I like the idea of the ACR, but I just don't think it's particularly workable with the way snakes are bred. To be honest I'd prefer to just see breeders giving out pedigrees with snakes where possible ... but even then, unless/until there is a culture of exhibiting snakes like people do with small animals, dogs, cats, etc, even that has no real major bonuses and so probably will not become the norm quickly.

I have a tendency to put pieces of paper Someplace Safe and never see them again. Although now I am getting into the habit of scanning stuff.

The benefit (often outweighed by the initial registration cost) for corns as they are being bred now is ease of tracking genetics. I've been part of too many starter fancy rat/mouse clubs that withered for lack of members/activities (for some reason they just don't take root in the US) to even suggest starting snake "shows" equivalent to dog/cat shows.

My snakes all have names, rather than numbers. I do give hatchlings their own "code" which goes along with it to the new owner - that means if the person gets back to me, I have more to go on than "you remember, the normal hatchling I bought in 2007".

I'm terrible at naming things, so I'm happy enough to stick with ID numbers for the snakes I have that came with them, though I like Drizzt80's numbering scheme.

Just because it doesn't seem "the norm" I don't usually bother with prefixes on websites etc, but certainly for my own records I have (for example) Strawberry down on my notes as Lexcorn Strawberry, and I'd have Barzona down as Serpenco Barzona.

I've been printing out cage cards with the name/genetics/hatch date/source and "laminating" with wide packing tape for each of my snakes. That way all their data stays with them all the time.

 

[VinnyJ]

I'm with Brent on this one to a certain extent. As far as my snakes go I keep pretty good records of where they came from and what thier genetics are in an excel spread sheet. I periodically email the spread sheet to 4 of my email addresses so I don't loose any info in the event of a computer crash. That is pretty cost effective to me. Paying to register all my snakes... most of them at $10 each is not cost effective. If people were paying $10 to 20 extra for an ACR registered snake then sure but I don't see that ever being the case.

Now if I'm buying a snake from someone and they don't keep good records or know what the great grandparents were het for and may have possibly passed down then the ACR is a great tool to find that information.

 

[Rich Z]

The idea of a corn snake registry has been bantered about almost as long as we have all been breeding corn snakes. The idea, in theory, sounds good, but the devil is obviously in the details. Otherwise I would have started one myself many many moons ago. I can distinctly remember having the domain name CornSnakeRegistry.com all ready to register, but thinking about it a bit, I just said "NO WAY", and passed on that idea.

The most insurmountable problem is the fact that any system will be subject to a "garbage in, garbage out" situation. Not only the matter of incorrect data, but cases of blatant lying about the genetic makeup and ancestry. Since there is really no way to VERIFY the provided information, it's value to anyone would be limited only to those people providing the information that you personally trusted.

Another issue was the problem of workload. Quite frankly, any system that required ANY workload at all, would likely be too much of an additional burden for the people whose input would be most valuable to the system because of the VOLUME of the data THEY could provide. Seriously, when I have 3,000 to 7,000 babies hatching out, the very LAST thing I need is even more work to do. So no matter how valuable (or interesting) such a system might be to some, the time involved and workload needed just will not be available WHEN it is needed. And once the majority of the babies have been sold and some time is then available, what is the sense of doing the record keeping at that late date in the season when most of the babies are now gone?

Then there is cost. No one would do something like this for free. But even if registration were a minimal $1 per head, assuming the above concerns were not valid, why would anyone producing 3,000+ animals want to spend another $3,000+ on registration, adding to the overhead for snakes where every year buyers seemingly expect the prices to be LOWER than they were last year?

Lastly, and perhaps overlooked quite often, is the fact that many people are doing projects that they would really rather not have made public before reaching fruition. Certainly I have several such projects ongoing, so I assume other people do as well. Why would people engaging in such projects want to make it public in a registry? So if they don't, how can ANY of the animals related to those projects be registered with accurate information without tipping their hand on what they are working on? They either have to exclude even the culls from those projects from the registry, or falsify, at least partially, the information they provide about them.

Actually, in proofing this post, it appears that ALL the issues may very well be insurmountable. :shrugs:

So as I mentioned, it is a good idea, but seriously, it is just not probable that such a system will ever be practical in utility. It is not really a failing in anyone attempting to do such a thing, but a failing in the details of information collection and management over which they have no control whatsoever needed to make it work.

 

[Tom Tuttle]

I no longer register any of my snakes. I registered some animals when it was originally free to do so, kind of a novelty, but as a breeder it's a ridiculous waste of money and there's no payoff for breeders that ""advertise"" the service to customers . . . in my opinion.

As a service for tracking lineage, it's no more accurate than trusting the person you're buying from.

D80[/QUOTE]

Yep,I'm with you on that one!

 

[TandJ]

Yah.. I can trace the lineage of some animals, which has been effective in a Sunkissed/het sunkissed kids I got last year.. Like it was said above, it is really expensive for me to go ahead and register and a long time for me to sit down to preregister the clutches for the year.. to some people it might make a difference, to me, it depends on who and what breed the animals to begin with, essentially the animals pedigree...

Your going to have to have faith and trust in the breeder your dealing with..

Regards... Tim of T and J

 

[Duff]

I'm another who started doing it, but haven't bothered lately. Just don't think it'll ever really get to a point where it will have any real significance.

 

[CornCrazy]

Well, I have all of my snakes registered. It took a while to get them all in. I just sent in the last 44 registrations (22 from registered stock and 22 for unregistered stock). I spent $198 for the recent registrations.

I personally like having my snakes registered. It gives me proof of ownership. A few years ago, someone stole one of my snakes when they came to see my collection. I had no way of proving it was mine (I was told that just having pics of it wasn't enough) and therefore lost the snake. With the certificates, I do not have to worry about that. It is documented both here and online that the snake belongs to me. That is the main reason I use the registry.

 

[Duff]

I personally like having my snakes registered. It gives me proof of ownership. A few years ago, someone stole one of my snakes when they came to see my collection. I had no way of proving it was mine (I was told that just having pics of it wasn't enough) and therefore lost the snake. With the certificates, I do not have to worry about that. It is documented both here and online that the snake belongs to me. That is the main reason I use the registry.

That sounds good in theory, but not sure how well it would hold up legally. It doesn't provide any legal proof of ownership, as anyone can register any snake they have a picture of. A good attorney will negate the ACR as any kind of proof of ownership. Especially since it's just a privately run, "honor-system" registration database.

Not trying to be negative, just trying to point that if that's your main reason, it might not be very usable from a legal stand point.

 

[Tom Tuttle]

IMHO it's a waste of money. I've kept breeding records of all my stock long before the Acr was ever thought of. It's worked well for me for 3 decades now,if it aint broke why fix it?.
From the certificates that I've seen, and possess from some purchases, the documentation isn't good enough to stand up as identification in the court room any more than your personal pictures.:shrugs:

 

[Susan]

I have most of my snakes registered, but I'm now waiting until their first breeding to do so. As for the honesty in the genetics listed in the registry being only as good as the honesty of the person doing the registration, that is correct, but that is something people have to deal with with ANY registrations of ANY creature. There is no way other than the breeder's word to verify that this male is the father of that puppy/kitten/horse/cow/sheep/snake/whatever. And if you think DNA testing will improve things, IMO, I don't trust it one bit as I already know how extensive errors can be made in that department. It may all seem to be a complete waste of time and money, and maybe that is correct, but then again, in 50 years, maybe it won't be. It hasn't taken me that long these past 2 years to pre-register all my clutches. And as for putting the paperwork together for the hatchlings I've sold, it's easier than getting all the feed and shed records together (trust me...no one wants my originals). And if the new owners don't want to register their new snake(s), fine. At least they have something that has my info and the parents' info on it in case they need to know at some point in the future.

 

[Duff]

True, if it stays around long enough, it may become what it's aiming for. My only issue with it as things stand now, is it's far from there. Some may call me cheap (or a whiner), but honestly, I don't believe in spending money for someone else to profit from something that is really no use to me. Call me crazy or selfish, I guess.

 

[Tom Tuttle]

True, if it stays around long enough, it may become what it's aiming for. My only issue with it as things stand now, is it's far from there. Some may call me cheap (or a whiner), but honestly, I don't believe in spending money for someone else to profit from something that is really no use to me. Call me crazy or selfish, I guess.

Your not crazy or selfish, just realistic! Pretty much the same way I feel. :cheers: