Airport Security - Too much?

[Karoni]

And lastly, I am not willing to see all the freedoms of this country, including relative freedom of movement, traded away for an illusion of safety. If everyone gets irradiated and their crotch fondled, Al Qaida will just find another way to attack us. It's an illusion of safety, not real safety.

Spot on. I completely agree. The honest truth is that the government cannot really keep us safe.

Gosh, the last time I got felt like that I had to give the person giving 50 bucks.

I know I'm weird, but being patted down/patted up like I've seen in the news and on the internet...I'm afraid I'd be giggling or reflexively knocking the fashizzle out of somebody if I weren't sedated. Maybe if they'd buy me a drink or sweet talk me first it might be a little more bearable.

You guys crack me up. Thanks for providing some comic relief.

The truly sad thing is that all of you who oppose this are going to be the one's crying the loudest and saying the government hasn't done enough when something does happen again.

Remy, I cannot possibly understand what you've been through, but I can't agree with you.

 

[bitsy]

The bottom line is that terrorists cannot be stopped completely. You will never be able to scan all luggage sufficiently. You will never be able to frisk enough people, well enough. No border controls will ever be tight enough.

As my father (ex-police) used to say: "You can't legislate against the loonies". If a group of people is determined to carry out acts of terror, then they are bound to succeed in some measure.

I guess Britain got lucky with the IRA - ultimately their aims were political, and politics is always negotiable. How we deal with an idealistic/religious group that doesn't even exist as a centralised organisation, is beyond me. Even if negotiations were possible, we have nobody with whom to negotiate. We don't know who or where they are.

The best we can do is learn to live with the threat and decide how far we're prepared to have our civil liberties curtailed in order to mitigate that threat. We also need to be aware that a population is more easily controlled and manipulated when it's frightened. Keeping an eye on our own politicians is as important as looking out for the fundamentalists. Nobody can truly keep us safe, so treat with suspicion anybody who claims to be able to.

This world is not safe. We cannot make it safe. We can only learn to live meaningful lives within the boundaries we choose to place on ourselves.

 

[Shiari]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ast-TSA-agents-airport.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

It just gets better and better.

 

[ShenziSixaxis]

Ahh, America. Trying to do the right thing through the worse means. Ain't it great? Time to look into train transportation, or your own little plane/helicopter...

I have a question the way I heard (don't remember where) the age limit is 12 and over. Would this not be just a 'tad' overwhelming for a 12 yo? Not that I have a solution, at this point just opinion.

That'd be overwhelming for ME and I'm almost 16! D< Trust issues don't help either.

 

[kathylove]

Originally Posted by susang View Post
I have a question the way I heard (don't remember where) the age limit is 12 and over. Would this not be just a 'tad' overwhelming for a 12 yo? Not that I have a solution, at this point just opinion.

AND - if the age limit is 12, a creative terrorist will use an 11 year old - or however young they have to go. I have no doubt that they would use an infant if that is what it takes. Or cargo, if that is easier.

Somebody asked how we will feel if we don't give up all rights (and, I suppose, eventually have to fly naked after a body cavity search so they can be REALLY sure), and then a terrorist attacks a plane. But my question is - how will we feel after going through these measures, and the terrorists will be creative enough to find the ways that we are neglecting (maybe cargo?) while we make a big show of patting down grannies at the security point?

I like the idea of the "bomb sniffer" machines that blow a puff of air on the traveler, and then analyzes it for explosives. That doesn't sound very invasive.

Of course, the idea I liked best was that each traveler goes into a bombproof box, and any explosives on their person are exploded while inside. Great solution - if only it were possible, lol!

 

[vetusvates]

Poor guy with urostomy bag and unsympathetic searcher-prober-groper.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40291856/ns/travel-news
http://lonelyconservative.com/2010/11/awful-tsa-screeners-burst-urostomy-bag-of-cancer-survivor-left-him-covered-in-urine/

 

[VickyChaiTea]

That poor man with the urostomy bag. :C

I do see a need for strict security in airports, and I am all for pat downs and scans so long as no one is hurt. I think they should ask people questions BEFORE they pat them down about urostomy bags, prosthetic limbs, etc. so things like that don't happen.

 

[Shiari]

Metal detectors and sniffer dogs would work really well. Have people sit down on a chair and have several dogs go past. 2 bomb dogs and a narcotics dog. This won't, of course, prevent sharpened plastic items, but if you had an air marshal on each flight, and locked cockpit doors it would seriously reduce the chances of explosives getting on planes.
It would even work to foil the plans of those who might swallow explosive items, or have them surgically implanted.

 

[VickyChaiTea]

Forgot about dogs! They're important. I saw one while I was at an airport and I wanted to pet it so baaaad. lol

 

[josie]

I would rather have someone feel my business than end up splattered across several states because someone refused a pat down or body scan and got away with it. I personally saw the plane crash into the twin towers from not even 100 feet away and lost many friends in the terrorist attack. There are no security measures that are too invasive if it means that no one has to die like that again. People have obviously forgotten the horror and suffering of that day, otherwise this would not be an issue.

I agree. I wish people would just shut up about it. It's standard practice in other countries to be patted down, we're slow once again, and I've had it happen. I think it should be "get scanned/patted down or don't fly". You're complaining about them trying to keep you safe???? Seriously?

 

[gelshark]

I think everyone should go around naked from now on. Yes it will be cold for some of us that live in colder areas, but isn't it worth it knowing that you will not have to worry about anyone suspecting you of being a terrorist? Plus you get the added peace of mind that no one will think you are a nerd because of the clothes you wear, nor will you have to worry about your clothes getting stolen if you prefer the fancy hip hop styles. The female celebs will no longer have to worry about the paparazzi trying to get "nip slip" photos. We will be able to more easily intervene when there are cases of anorexia and needle using drug users. Physical abuse will be hard to hide, and maybe just maybe everyone will be that much more determined to be physically fit.
In summary not only will we be be able to solve airport security we will be able to solve almost all of humanity's problems by ditching our clothes.

 

[harleydan1956]

living in fear.

There are more car accidents deaths every year than Plane bombings. Live in fear of everything and you can't live your life and I for one, refuse to tiptoe through life, only to arrive at death safely.
They have went way too far...

 

[josie]

Being in the Middle East gave me a whole new perspective on a lot of things, this is just one of them. I do not live my life in fear, when it's your time it's your time. No matter where you are or what you are doing. I just think that there are bigger issues in this country then going through a body scanner in an airport.

 

[Outcast]

I'm not a big fan of "racial profiling" but so far all of our airline terrorists have been Muslim males. Not little old ladies of any type, not African Americans or Latinos, not little children or kids under 14 or so of any type. Maybe, just maybe, we should concentrate on the high-probability people?

That in itself is a problem, because not all Muslims are Arabs, there are many African, Asian, Europeans and yes, even Americans, that are Muslim. That in itself makes it hard to "profile", Muslim's do not all dress the same, and the extremists are really good at blending in until it is their time to strike.

I like the idea of the "bomb sniffer" machines that blow a puff of air on the traveler, and then analyzes it for explosives. That doesn't sound very invasive.

Of course, the idea I liked best was that each traveler goes into a bombproof box, and any explosives on their person are exploded while inside. Great solution - if only it were possible, lol!

The only problem I have with those machines is that I and a few of my buddies have personally set them off. There was a whole lot of C-4 on our clothes and boots. I would not have been happy to get blown up... LOL... But, if it was more than just trace amounts, as in a diaper made of PETN like that one guy a while back, who ended up burning his waist before getting arrested.

People have obviously forgotten the horror and suffering of that day, otherwise this would not be an issue.

The suffering of that day, eventually led to my joining the military and going to Afghanistan twice to disarm IED's in order to protect my fellow military members, and the civilians who are trying to make a life for themselves. So I have not forgotten the suffering. I still think that frisking everyone and scanning them will not do nearly as much good as they think.

 

[wstphal]

That in itself is a problem, because not all Muslims are Arabs, there are many African, Asian, Europeans and yes, even Americans, that are Muslim. That in itself makes it hard to "profile", Muslim's do not all dress the same, and the extremists are really good at blending in until it is their time to strike.

And that's why I'm not advocating straight profiling. It just seems there ought to be a better way, using IQ & technology than humiliating disabled people, terrifying children who have been told not to let strangers touch them "there" (that's "bad touch" if I ever saw it!) and re-traumatizing rape & abuse survivors. Not to mention the embarrassment anyone might feel.

The suffering of that day, eventually led to my joining the military and going to Afghanistan twice to disarm IED's in order to protect my fellow military members, and the civilians who are trying to make a life for themselves. So I have not forgotten the suffering. I still think that frisking everyone and scanning them will not do nearly as much good as they think.

I salute you for your service. I KNOW you have not forgotten, and will not forget. Thank you!

 

[Outcast]

And that's why I'm not advocating straight profiling. It just seems there ought to be a better way, using IQ & technology than humiliating disabled people, terrifying children who have been told not to let strangers touch them "there" (that's "bad touch" if I ever saw it!) and re-traumatizing rape & abuse survivors. Not to mention the embarrassment anyone might feel.

Oh, I agree completely. Could you imagine the amount of people that would be pulled aside because they are acting strange, and when questioned farther being put in to a holding cell, because they do not wish to disclose that they had been molested before, or harassed?
There are smarter ways to do things, and honestly, I do not fly if I do not have to, I have issues with large groups of people crunched into small areas. That's one of the things the doc's used to tell me I have PTSD. Oh, its not fun to live with by the way...

I really hope that they can think of a smarter way to search people. Because, right now, its dumb... I have been through the security lines in Airports and have glanced over my shoulder when someone has to call the "expert" to look at the x-ray, Having been trained to know and understand x-rays of different boxes and electrical components, I could have told them what it was on the screen. I seriously think that the TSA should have better trained people for those machines, that would help out a lot.

 

[wstphal]

There are smarter ways to do things, and honestly, I do not fly if I do not have to, I have issues with large groups of people crunched into small areas. That's one of the things the doc's used to tell me I have PTSD. Oh, its not fun to live with by the way...

I don't know if that alone equals PTSD as it is very, very, very common. But anyway, I am sorry that you suffer, whatever the label!

I am arguing the same point from a different viewpoint. We need to search SMARTER not search more invasively. Thanks for your viewpoint, BTW, I had never thought about all the times they call someone else in to look at the pictures of the carryons!

 

[Outcast]

I don't know if that alone equals PTSD as it is very, very, very common. But anyway, I am sorry that you suffer, whatever the label!

That alone does not equal PTSD, but that plus a whole lot of other symptoms do, and as time goes, if I do not have a release for the stress that builds up because of all of that stuff, I end up snapping or hyperventilating. It really isn't fun. I usually have to go off alone, hiking or fishing or something, that usually helps me relax.

 

[wstphal]

That alone does not equal PTSD, but that plus a whole lot of other symptoms do, and as time goes, if I do not have a release for the stress that builds up because of all of that stuff, I end up snapping or hyperventilating. It really isn't fun. I usually have to go off alone, hiking or fishing or something, that usually helps me relax.

I wasn't trying to poke at you; I apologize. You're right, the collection of symptoms does sound like PTSD. And yeah, from everything I have heard, it REALLY isn't fun. It's good, though, that hiking & fishing & so on helps.

I dunno if this helps to read or not, but it may well get a lot better. I've talked to vets who have gotten better with time, to the point where they only feel that way a couple a times a year, or less. Sometimes some of them go for years on end without the symptoms happening at all.

When Saving Private Ryan ran in the movie theaters, a whole lot of families thought "let's take grampa to the new WWII movie!" and these guys wound up having attacks of PTSD symptoms that they hadn't had since the 1950s. So they had gotten a lot better, and gone decades without any symptoms at all until their families traumatized them with the first part of that movie. Sad that it had to cause them such stress & distress, but neat that so many had been OK, symptom-free for 40+ years. I hope that you, too, find that kind of relief.

 

[Outcast]

I wasn't trying to poke at you; I apologize. You're right, the collection of symptoms does sound like PTSD. And yeah, from everything I have heard, it REALLY isn't fun. It's good, though, that hiking & fishing & so on helps.

I dunno if this helps to read or not, but it may well get a lot better. I've talked to vets who have gotten better with time, to the point where they only feel that way a couple a times a year, or less. Sometimes some of them go for years on end without the symptoms happening at all.

When Saving Private Ryan ran in the movie theaters, a whole lot of families thought "let's take grampa to the new WWII movie!" and these guys wound up having attacks of PTSD symptoms that they hadn't had since the 1950s. So they had gotten a lot better, and gone decades without any symptoms at all until their families traumatized them with the first part of that movie. Sad that it had to cause them such stress & distress, but neat that so many had been OK, symptom-free for 40+ years. I hope that you, too, find that kind of relief.

I did not take offense, so no problem. I have actually found that by talking about what I have done, instead of it building up inside me it helps me release little by little, and I am a little more social.
I completely understand the SPR scenario, I had been going good for roughly 3 months until my geography professor showed us a slide show of the war in the middle east, and it gave me bad flashbacks and sent me on a downward spiral. Since then though I have been making progress back up the ladder. Hopefully I can make it to a reptile show one day and work through my groups of people problems.