Anyone on facebook see this???

[ZoologyGirl]

So it is a piebald garter. With the original picture that was posted I did not think it looked like a cornsnake...but wasn't going to argue the authenticity until I could see a better quality photo...I think we all know that cell phone photo's can be shoddy at best.

Now that the better photo's are up...that is a beautiful snake!

 

[ChuckHurd]

Well, some of you get it…some never will. Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean that you should. Maybe you can legally post the picture anywhere since I put it on facebook, hell I don’t know….but why would you with me saying, I do not want it posted. Its not like I would go to the trouble of filing a law suite or driving to wherever you live to settle it personally. But still, with someone saying, this is mine, I don’t want it posted….how do you feel it is ethical to do so?

I was wrong when I called it a corn, sure enough. But what some of you are missing it, I knew that I had not properly examined the snake…..thus the reason I did not release the pictures to the masses, only on my personal FB for personal friends to see. I had no intentions of any of you folks seeing the first pic, picking it apart, and doing the normal detective work. I planned to do a more public release today, after I had opportunity to closely examine the snake and get the pictures that I knew would be demanded. So, don’t preach that I need to be more careful, my plans were circumvented by someone who seems to think she has the right to decide what happens with my stuff. And the fact that it turned out to be a garter snake, in no way alleviates the egg that is on the face of the detectives that found the old pictures I used to “make” this one, or the ones that noticed that the reflection did not match, or counted the scales and noticed they were off, or figured out it was a copperhead. =)

So, in short, if one of your members had left my picture alone, in accordance with my wishes, we would not have had this 20 page thread and I would not be back on a message board…..a place I have no desire to be…

 

[amazondoc]

I was wrong when I called it a corn, sure enough. But what some of you are missing it, I knew that I had not properly examined the snake…..

Chuck, anything that you post on the internet remains there for good -- or for bad. If you are not certain of something, then SAY YOU ARE NOT CERTAIN OF IT. In your case, you posted that pic and confidently stated that you were "convinced" it was a corn. In fact, you said "I am convinced it is a corn. There were normal corns from the same area to match it with. The head on this one matches the other corns and the patches of “normal” look like corn pattern. " You did not say ANYTHING about not being certain of the ID until you were caught out.

The snake isn't what you claimed. Admit your mistake, get over it, and try not to make any more false claims in the future. HONESTY on your part will help to prevent future threads like this one.

 

[wstphal]

Chuck, I think it's really cool, actually, that it's a piebald garter! I am not sophisticated enough about PS to have gotten into the was-it-photoshopped question, so I just sat back & watched, but I love the idea of a garter morph. So I hope the people who have it are going to breed it.

 

[danielle]

Chuck I get you not wanting your pictures reposted and respect that, but in fairness when you posted the pic on FB you didn't mention please don't repost my pic either so Steph had no way to know those were your wishes Once she and others knew you didn't want them posted they respectfully deleted them and appologized...should be end of story.

I am one who immediately thought the pic was fake and didn't believe it to be a corn. Doesn't look like a garter to me either in all honesty, but I'm no garter expert. People post fake pics all the time trying to scam people passing it off as the real thing and yes it is discussed on public forums. Forums like this help people avoid scam artists and educate people on what to look for when buying a potential snake online- sorry if you found our discussion offensive. If someone posted a pic of a hot you commonly worked with and you found it sketchy you would probably say so as well- it's called discussion for a reason. Hope you understand where we were all coming from and sorry your pics were prematurely distributed- good luck with this snake

 

[Tara80]

Like always, well said Danielle.

 

[danielle]

Thanks Tara I just didn't think Steph in any way was trying to disrespect this person and instead was genuinely interested in if anyone else had seen the photo, or heard of this new "corn snake". If I didn't want a pic posted I wouldn't personally put it on FB, or at least put a disclaimer stating my wishes were for the photo to remain posted only on my page. Oh well lesson learned I guess

 

[wade]

So, in short, if one of your members had left my picture alone, in accordance with my wishes, we would not have had this 20 page thread and I would not be back on a message board…..a place I have no desire to be…

OK Chuck, you have had your say and we have all heard it. Bottom line Steph found a picture on the internet labeled Cornsnake. I can't see you have any room to complain about her actions. Anyone who ever has been on the internet knows if you want to keep something to yourself, keep it off the internet. You can be as upset as you like but you are the one that made it public.

 

[Camby]

Well, some of you get it…some never will. Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean that you should. Maybe you can legally post the picture anywhere since I put it on facebook, hell I don’t know….but why would you with me saying, I do not want it posted. Its not like I would go to the trouble of filing a law suite or driving to wherever you live to settle it personally. But still, with someone saying, this is mine, I don’t want it posted….how do you feel it is ethical to do so?

I agree with you that if you post the pic and then visibly advise you do not want the photo shared, then shame on those who do. However, if you do not advise this and you post the pic, then shame on you for not stating your wishes and then getting mad because it was copied and shared.

Also, as for you wanting to share the pic with friends only, did you ever think of emailing the blurry pic out rather than posting it on facebook? Seems logial that it would have achieved your goal of only sharing with your friends and avoided this whole issue doesn't it? Either way, I personally wouldn't have posted ANY pic of the animal if it wasn't clearly identifiable. Heck, you previously were "convinced" it was a corn, now you are convinced it is a garter, maybe it is, but since I do not utilize facebook in any form, guess I will have to trust you identified it correctly this time huh?

And the fact that it turned out to be a garter snake, in no way alleviates the egg that is on the face of the detectives that found the old pictures I used to “make” this one, or the ones that noticed that the reflection did not match, or counted the scales and noticed they were off, or figured out it was a copperhead. =)

Maybe you don't get it either. I guess you choose to ignore the fact that I said IF IF IF IF. I am not going to argue with you anymore. You know, it is no use wresteling with the pigs in the mud, they enjoy it! BTW, you mentioned you were going ot have Mike Jollif help with the id, since his first reaction was "that picture is photoshopped", where does that place him with you? I am betting with him it is acceptable. Also, for those who counted the scales, uhh, since it supposedly a garter now, wouldn't that make them correct in their original statement? Is that egg scrambled or sunny side up?

BTW, you still want those pinkish colored rattlers I occasionally run across?

So, in short, if one of your members had left my picture alone, in accordance with my wishes, we would not have had this 20 page thread and I would not be back on a message board…..a place I have no desire to be…

You know, maybe it is just me, but for someone who is so adamant they hate message boards, you sure have posted on this thread a great deal. I am done with this thread, gongratulation to the kid who found it, I am sure it is an amazing find and I wish him all the best. Same to you if you are going ot assist him with th eproject, just remember, native non venomous are not allowed in Georgia.

Peace out,

Sherlock Holmes

 

[Buzzard]

So true Camby about the natives. And the law strictly forbids morphs of those snakes found in GA.(almost moved in GA this past spring) But I believe Chuck said the kid lived in North, AL. Which is close to where Chattanooga meets.(AL<TN<GA all intersect real close to there) So its possible for the kid to keep it. I will say this, I am glad the snake is IDed. I am happy to see the new and improved photos, but I dont care for the "tude" you have shown Chuck. Many people on this site would gladdly edit a post if you asked in a more considerate way. As for the photo being released. Well I think we all know(now), if you dont want it to float around the forums, then dont post it where someone might be able to get a hold of it(wheather you say dont post it or not).

 

[RavenSpirit360]

When you posted that picture on Facebook.. You did NOT have it stated ANYWHERE that you did not want that picture released anywhere else.. I would not have done it if so.. Therefore, what you are saying, about me posting it when I knew you didnt want it posted, stands on shaky ground to say the least..

 

[RavenSpirit360]

Chuck, anything that you post on the internet remains there for good -- or for bad. If you are not certain of something, then SAY YOU ARE NOT CERTAIN OF IT. In your case, you posted that pic and confidently stated that you were "convinced" it was a corn. In fact, you said "I am convinced it is a corn. There were normal corns from the same area to match it with. The head on this one matches the other corns and the patches of “normal” look like corn pattern. " You did not say ANYTHING about not being certain of the ID until you were caught out.

The snake isn't what you claimed. Admit your mistake, get over it, and try not to make any more false claims in the future. HONESTY on your part will help to prevent future threads like this one.

EXACTLY!!!!! ANd why get so defensive over me saying my friend doesnt think its a corn, when he knew he hadnt properly id'd it.?????? That makes no sense... To attack my character because I said that it doesnt look to be a corn?? When you are not even sure yourself?? What kind of person does that..??

 

[RavenSpirit360]

Thanks Danielle, Wade, Camby and Buzzard

 

[omni]

I think I implied the worst in my earlier post the other day. Chuck, please accept my apology if I was out of line.
I'm not super familiar with cell pics, I dont believe in cell phones myself. The fees seem just so unfair, why can't they be like radio? Buy one and you're jammin... So I didn't think a phone pic would be so sketchy in some places, and decently detailed in others.
Amazing snake! I hope you go on to have successful breedings with it, and garter enthusiasts have a lot of fun with a new gene in their collections

I think forum ppl are very much so disbelieving of internet claims and have an attitude "prove it. until you can, I disbelieve." Don't be too harsh on fellow herpers here, I've found this community to really be of good ppl and little bashing or meanness goes on that I've seen. Other forums not always so nice an atmosphere.
Chalk it up to many of us on CS are just waiting(can't wait!) for some new discovery in corns and must know for certain if it is proved beyound doubt. I actually think there is relief that it isn't a corn, since it would be something nobody has to work with but you and there is bound to be jealousy.

You can bet when a truly striking discovery in corns comes up, there is a frenzied attitude cuz everyone gets excited.

With all that said by me, and everyone, I hope you have some understanding and know not all forums are evil lol. There's some good ones. Welcome to CS, Chuck and Best of luck with your new project!

 

[rich333]

ummm...cant we all just get along???

it's like my mom always told me....if you wanna keep a secret keep your darn mouth shut. the minute you open it...it's no longer a secret. as for the snake..WOOOOOOOWWWWWW!!! what a beauty!! well, i guess now we wait to see pics of the babies.....hopefully someone trys to breed her.

 

[RavenSpirit360]

And I love the way he makes no response to anything I have said and just continues to talk about me like I am SUCH a bad person.. LOL.... I think that snake, that is now a garter snake, is beautiful.. I hope its genetic..... Should prove to be a nice little project.. I hope I find a little project of sorts out here oneday, even if it happens to be a Crotalus... There is a lot of variation in the C. m. mitchelli out here, but it just happens to depend on the are they are found in.. Have seen some nice pinkish ones.. I ran across one really super light gopher snake once, but I left it be..

 

[toyah]

As far as I knew, posting pictures that are on the internet are public domain and can be reposted as long as the source is stated.. That I did.... If I am wrong in that belief, then I apologize....

Not related to the topic - but you are incorrect. Photos - on the internet or elsewhere - are not public domain unless the copyright owner of the photo (normally the photographer) explicitly releases them to the public domain.

Chuck, on facebook, when you post a picture, you actually give up the rights to that picture. I found this information on http://www.facebook.com/terms.php

Your understanding is incorrect - you need to re-read what you quoted. You have granted facebook a license to use the image. The image remains the property of the photographer, and the photographer still controls their right to dictate where the image is used outside of the license they've granted facebook.

 

[vetusvates]

I failed to see anything copyrighted. I thought that was a process. Does a cellphone initiate that process?

Hmm....I wonder if my avatar is copyrighted. Or how much trouble to copyright it.

Heather (ZoologyGirl), is hypnotoad copyrighted?

 

[amazondoc]

I failed to see anything copyrighted. I thought that was a process. Does a cellphone initiate that process?

Any photograph is automatically considered copyrighted under the intellectual property provisions of US Copyright law. It can be very difficult to *enforce* that law, but legally that's how it works.

Now, there ARE some exceptions based on "fair use" principles, and one *might* make an argument that the use of the snake's photo here fell under Fair Use -- but that's debatable.

To start learning more about copyright law, look here:

http://www.copyright.gov/

 

[amazondoc]

Oh, P.S. -- you can't copyright your avatar, because you didn't take the pic. Photographs are copyrighted to the person who actually took the picture.