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Are we killing the future market?

ghosthousecorns said:
I guess it would if you are the type that would freeze a snake just because you can't get your asking price. I feel a sense of responsibility for bringing the life into this world and my motivation to want to breed snakes is not just financial gain. I cull a snake if something is wrong with it. I could never cull just to keep prices high, though. Not judging what other breeders choose to do, but I couldn't.
I just really hope yours get euthanized before the beardies get them...
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again, that is the animal game . When working a new morph that the way you do it . this is done in all aspects of breeding animals. This is what I mean about educatind people in the breeders game
 
A very small handful of breeders may see it the way you do. I do not want to judge you because I know that many breeders keep kingsnakes for their culls and there has been a thread about the right and wrong aspects of feeding off unwanted "normals" that was beat to death already. But you will find or maybe are finding that the vast majority of people who breed snakes would rather have the snakes they produce lead long and healthy lives.
See if I were in the conundrum of having produced a new morph and been unable to get my asking price I would lower it, same as Rich Z.
 
hmmmm
let's see....
which business model to emulate.....

Rich Z's model

Vinman's model....

decisions....decisions.....
 
Yes your right new morph from a combo is one thing . I would do the same. A brand new gene is another story and thats what I'm talking about.

I have bred so many different fish one I'm getting into is a albino C. afra from Cobue. Now I will be crossing my males to W.C. females I will grow up the young till they are able to be sexed keep some females, Kill off what I dont need sell the males to the pet store. Now when I breed the het females to the albino males all the normal fry will get culled and I will keep and sell all the albinos
 
Finally, something I can relate to. See, in my world, fish breeders take their unwanted fish to auctions or to their clubs and either trade them with other breeders, or get them to new hobbyists as a way to get help them gain experience. We don't flush our fish in the toilet just because they don't have the exact traits we're trying to produce. That's the kind of thinking that reinforces the "disposable animal" mentality that is always oh so popular.
 
LBoz said:
Finally, something I can relate to. See, in my world, fish breeders take their unwanted fish to auctions or to their clubs and either trade them with other breeders, or get them to new hobbyists as a way to get help them gain experience. We don't flush our fish in the toilet just because they don't have the exact traits we're trying to produce. That's the kind of thinking that reinforces the "disposable animal" mentality that is always oh so popular.
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2 worlds clash........
 
Vinman said:
In my case to the bearded dragons they go. That's right cull them, not all but 3/4 to 7/8 of the animals for sale .
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So now you're saying your $2000 snake is worth exactly 12 cents since that's the cost of the same pinky mouse you can give your bearded dragon. Interesting. Not very smart, but interesting. I'll give you just over double, 25 cents each and then I'll sell them for $500 since I know they're not worth $2000.

Keep talkin' vinster, keep talkin'.
D80
 
LBoz said:
Finally, something I can relate to. See, in my world, fish breeders take their unwanted fish to auctions or to their clubs and either trade them with other breeders, or get them to new hobbyists as a way to get help them gain experience. We don't flush our fish in the toilet just because they don't have the exact traits we're trying to produce. That's the kind of thinking that reinforces the "disposable animal" mentality that is always oh so popular.
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Wrong , I belong to Fish clubs, many fish are culled and when you are talking about fish farming it is done all the time . Now some hobbiest . yea they will not be working with super dollar high end fish. So how long are you doing fisdh and what do you breed

Drizz you keep going back to money I dont know how you get this pinky method being 12 cents . Dude it goes to the Dragons or to my kings . who is putting a price tag on it it is better that in the garbage or down the bowl At least its life was not a total waste
 
Drizzt80 said:
So now you're saying your $2000 snake is worth exactly 12 cents since that's the cost of the same pinky mouse you can give your bearded dragon. Interesting. Not very smart, but interesting. I'll give you just over double, 25 cents each and then I'll sell them for $500 since I know they're not worth $2000.

Keep talkin' vinster, keep talkin'.
D80
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Brent, I LUFF ya!
I'm STILL waiting for Vin to answer your questions though....
 
But we're not talking about farming here, and trust me, even here in podunk, IN we work with high dollar fish. Our club is actually hosting the ALA this year. Maybe you should come out for a visit. Some time out of NYC might do you a world of good?
 
You know, I think if I ever did produce a new gene I would probably try an auction and let the market decide the price. Then I would know what was fair to ask for and what people were willing to pay. Once they owned that snake if they wanted to produce a bunch more and sell for whatever they can get that would be their prerogative. I think keeping the price sky high and out of reach of "the masses" might actually hurt that morph more than help, because my gut feeling is that it's not going to be that popular if you have to spend an arm and a leg to get one. Some morphs just seem hot and everyone wants to have one and others you might not see that many of because they were priced out of reach of Joe Schmoe... So the novelty passed and the next hot new morph popped up. :shrugs:
 
LBoz said:
But we're not talking about farming here, and trust me, even here in podunk, IN we work with high dollar fish. Our club is actually hosting the ALA this year. Maybe you should come out for a visit. Some time out of NYC might do you a world of good?
Click to expand...

I know waht you are talking about . when it comes to Rare fish and endangered Ssp. All red light Sp are given out to members. Now with a new gene or strain is being devloped , you know a whole lot of culling is going on be honest
 
Honestly, not as much as you seem to think. The Master Breeders that I know do not want to introduce "new strains" as it decreases the purity of the fish. Hybrids are definitely NOT popular in the fish world. The majority of culling that goes on happens with deformed fish, not just "off" colors or finnage.
 
I need to join the ALA . I working with hybrid livebarrers. Need pure P. velifera
My main thing is African cichlid . I been doing them since 1979 anf fish since the age of 5 and I'm 45 years old. I know guppy and swordtail breeders cull all the time it is widely admitted
 
We have a huge cichlid following here. I've kept many, but mostly african and now only Mbuna.

Still, I don't even see culling the common fish such as guppies and swords as common practice. Yes, many are used as feeders, but more so given to new hobbyists or taken to auctions as I said previously. I just can't wrap my brain around disposing of any type of animal that one has worked hard to produce as common practice, but that might be the mother in me as well. Snakes are very new to me, but from what I'm reading, not many seem to follow your line of business practices.
 
Then you are not told the inside info.98% of the guppys in a show that win are a cross of two strains of smi realted fish that are the same color and pattren morph. The fact is you get very big tailed young from this cross yet you cant keep the size as large and fix it into the strain. I know . Now I'm very good friends with Adrain Hernandez at swamp river aquaitcs. I'm also on endlers R us forum. Everybody culls when working on a new morph . Common morph culls go to the pet store or wholesaler
Then you are new in fish or the business of fish breeding
 
 
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