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Butter issue thread

That is very interesting. I will have to do that when my boy moves up to full pinkys again. Anything to help him keep it down is a good thing. Thanks
 
Update: Butter's still hanging in there. Gave him his first injection (by me) yesterday, along with his oral med. Just oral med today. He did a little more mouth breathing yesterday after his daily warm water soak. The vet told me to soak him in warm (85*) water for 15 min a day to help him rehydrate.

Also, while I've been checking his soak water and found nothing, I did see a suspected mite on him this morning when I weighed him (370g now - down from 404 2 weeks ago, and 380 at the vet's office on Wed!!!). Under a magnifying glass, the bug looks more like a 6-legged beetle (from the newspaper, perhaps) than an 8-legged mite. Thoroughly checked him over with the mag glass, and saw nothing else. During his nightly soak, I'll toss his newspaper, clean the tub and replace with white paper towels, and run his soak water through a coffee filter to make it easier to see any. At the moment, I'm gonna treat mites as a secondary problem, and not use any insecticidal treatment on him - just he daily soak and paper change/inspection. He needs to gain strength and recover from the RI first off.

Anyway, that's the daily Butter update. Thanks for continuing to keep him and now Vern in your thoughts.
 
Update 12/26 - Continuing daily meds and his third injection yesterday. He started to shed yesterday as well, but it was in bits and pieces. I've offered him f/t fuzzies and regular mice, but has rejected them consistently. After his nightly soaking last, my wife and I 'peeled' the rest of the shed off.

This morning, he again refused a fuzzy, but I got to thinking. The one f/t mouse he did eat on his second day with me, he struck it hard and constricted for 10 minutes. Then, he backed off and really studied it for a while before reluctantly eating it. Since the seller hasn't been a font of information, I wondered if maybe he had been feeding him live. So this evening, I went and got three females, a small critter keeper, and some food.

Having used up all my patience in military doctor's waiting rooms, I put Butter and the smallest of the three mice in a 90 qt feeding bin (hey, it's in my living room - I wanted to make sure the mouse couldn't make a break for it). Mouse got nose to nose with Butter and scooted; Butter got interested. Mouse made a second trip around to Butter's business end, and he didn't hesitate. Bang, wrap wrap. He did take a minute to acquaint himself with which end was which, but down the hatch the mouse went, and now I'll just wait and watch to see that he digests it fine.

I don't really want to feed Butter live prey, but if that's what he eats, that's what he'll get until he's healthy and plump and has plenty of reserves for our battle of wills. I'm just glad he ate.

Time for a toast.
 
Nanci said:
Cool, I agree, the most important thing is putting some weight on him.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Nanci... I'll call the vet tomorrow morning and ask if it's okay that he skip his oral and injected meds tomorrow to make sure he is undisturbed for digestion.
 
Well done Bruce!

Totally agree with Nanci and I'll join you in that toast, cos it's great when a plan comes together...lol

Best wishes and keep us posted,
 
So far, so good. past the 48-hour mark and no regurge. I skipped his oral meds yesterday but he got both the oral and injection this morning.

Trying to avoid the term "power feed"... I want to get as much nutrition into Butter as quickly as possible. I weighed him on the 23d on my scale and he was 370g, down from 404g on the 8th when I brought him home. The vet said that once the RI is undercontrol that her next biggest priority is to get him bulked up.

So anyway, I'll certainly consult with the vet (his 2-week follow up exam will be next thurs or friday), but what are your thoughts on a 'growth' feeding schedule? My initial thought is to wait until he produces his first good post-mouse poop, then give him 2 more days, then feed him again. If he poops on day 3, then he'll eat again at day 5. If the poop comes later at day 4, then it'll be 6. This way (at least to my thinking) I'd be letting his own system dictate the frequency of feeding. If he digests faster then he'll eat faster.

Again, I'm not trying to do this to breed early or to have a monster corn. I just want him to have ample energy reserves and be as systemically strong as possible to fight off things like this in the future.

Now, if only little Vern would eat. <sigh> She hasn't eaten since before the prolapse. No huge urgency yet, but I'd really like to see her eat, too. I tossed the wild mouse I had been successfully scenting with. Sure hope that wasn't the cause. Hmmmph. If it wasn't the cause, though, I threw out the one thing that seemed to work.
 
I don't think it would hurt to feed every five days, if he's agreeable. But seriously, you don't have to even begin to worry about weight loss till he's lost 25% of his beginning weight. Although, you thought he was thin to begin with...I just wouldn't go wild with meal size on a five day schedule.

I highly doubt scenting with a wild mouse could cause parasites- how would that work? And it was frozen. And you just rubbed your mouse on it- not like it's carrying worn eggs around on its fur. Plus, it takes time to build up a parasite load. Although parasites are a common cause of prolapse, I'd be very, very surprised if your baby snake has a significant parasite load, if any.
 
Yeah, Nanci, I think the parasite theory is secondary to 'it was a pretty big pinky as her last meal and she pushed too hard' theory and maybe even with 'bacterial infection.'

Oh, yeah... the mouse Butter ate Wed evening gave him a small lump, which was totally gone by this morning. I keep going back to the vet calling him "emmaciated."
 
Plus, it takes time to build up a parasite load. Although parasites are a common cause of prolapse, I'd be very, very surprised if your baby snake has a significant parasite load, if any.
Click to expand...


Our first snake, Lady G, had a significant parasite load and required a couple of treatment from a vet. She was very surprised at the load in one so small. I think it contributed to the issues that the vet found when we lost her a year or so ago.
 
Holy Camel Drink, Batman!

I had been remiss in putting Butter in for his evening soakings (per the vet's instruction, every night until he shed, then every other night). Skipped the first one cuz he just ate, then forgot yesterday evening.

Anyway... When I put him in the gladware to soak, he stuck his snout in the 83* water and drank. And drank. And drank. I stopped counting swallows at 50, and he went on for at least that long again. The more he drank, the deeper he stuck his head in the water. I've never seen any animal drink that long at one sitting.

I'll take this as another good sign. At least I don't have to worry about him being dehydrated for another day or two.
 
Bruce it sounds like things are looking up!

I am so glad to hear it. I was pulling for Butter to get better.
 
Hi Bruce... I have been reading this thread with great interest but havent been able to reply until now. As you know I went through a very similar situation with a royal python about 2 months ago. And as you probably know he has pneumonia and was euthanised.

It's been heartbreaking to read about you buying such an unwell snake, your sons first snake. I am sure he was devistated to learn just how sick butter was. Have you ever said anything to the previous owner? Or have you not been able to get in touch since it was a show purchase... I would have been livid and not afraid to tell them.

I REALLY hope butter pulls through, and I am sure with such intensive treatment he will. Drinking the warm fluids should do him good and hopefully he will be hydrated enough to have a decent shed. Wishing you, butter and your son all the bestest luck in the world!
 
Thanks, Elle!

Butter shed Christmas night, with help from us. He ate the night after (no poop from that yet) and drank enough tonight to be obviously heavier when I put him back in his bin afterward. He's MUCH perkier and fights his medication like he should.

I HAVE been in contact with the seller, who claims to have raised him since a hatchling (now they say he's 4, as opposed to 3 as they told me at the show) and that his vet says he was in 'perfect' health. Whatever. He probably thought I was trying to shake him down for money. Screw that! I just wanted answers. How much, how often was he fed, live or F/T? What substrate was he used to? Any medical issues? I got nothing. Live and learn. You can put money that I won't be buying from Reptile Kingdom in the future. Oops! Did I just reveal their name? Pity.

At any rate, Butter IS showing substantial improvement. I've been thinking for the last week that he wasn't going to make it. Now, I think he's got a decent chance.

Now to get Vern to eat (oh, and you won't see me buying a snake from Petco again, either!).
 
You deffinatley live and learn. I made the descison a while ago about who I buy and don't buy from. I certainly won't be buying imports again after having "bad luck" with a couple of hatchlings. It's so much better to buy from a known, close source who will give you support and even compensation if something goes wrong through no fault of your own.
 
Hey Bruce are you going to the next Reptile Show in Manassas (in Feb. I think)? I would really like a ring side seat when you tell them off and show them your vet bills.:devil01: Nothing like making people squirm in public. The overhearing of the situation might also influence others not to buy from them. I have an evil side.
 
Yay! I got pooped on!

Okay, so getting pooped on normally isn't much to celebrate about. But tonight, it is for me. Put Butter back into the soaking tub hoping it'd prompt a poop. Nope. Instead, he drank and drank again. Cool. Took him out and instead of sticking him right back in his tub, I thought I'd give him a few minutes of holding time that didn't involve me craming a syringe down his throat, poking him in the back end with a needle or stuffing him in a bucket of water.

What do I get for my moment of care and thoughtfulness? Yup. Pfffffftttthhhhffffft! Right on my lap. Yay! It was all urates, but it was moist and didn't seem to require him to strain to get it out. So, while in the future I'd prefer not to have to put him in a gladware bucket to drink or hold him in my lap to poop (did I mention I had new pants on?), so be it.

Really growing fond of this dude...

Tomorrow - live mouse #2... stay tuned.
 
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