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Calls to boycott Arizona are spreading like a virus

Shiari said:
Considering that people have been picked up despite being the wrong race of the alleged perpetrator...

After all, if cops looking for a tall, thin, hispanic man can surround and try to arrest for the crime a short, fat, black kid...
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Either they are accused of profiling, or they are accused of harassing everyone. Which is it?
 
Nanci said:
Either they are accused of profiling, or they are accused of harassing everyone. Which is it?
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Bored cops, overzealous cops, angry cops are going to have a heyday with this. I'd rather they harass *literally* everyone. They should do randoms sweeps of all businesses (not all at the same time, obviously) and check the status of every single person in the facility. You'd catch more actual illegal immigrants that way, rather than for the crime of "living in arizona while hispanic".
 
Lovin2act said:
Why not though? If I am a farmer and packs of coyotes keep eating my chickens and goats, I am gonna be looking out for coyotes. Of course large pythons are known to eat chickens and small goats too if they find one...but I dont see packs of pythons around this country. So yes...the farmer should be looking out for coyotes that are trying to eat his chickens and goats and doing what he can to keep them at bay much more than he should try to use up his limited resources to search for the occasional python (that some tart in Florida probably released) and eats once every couple weeks to a month. That farmer is an idiot if he does not relegate the majority of his efforts to curtail the coyote threat.

When I cut myself and bleed from it, I put a band-aid on my cut, not on my whole body.
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The difference is that all coyotes eat chicken... Not all people that belong to a race that statistically steals more than others will for sure steal from the electronics department.
 
There are a couple of people in this conversation that are determined to make this into a travesty. They are simply convinced we are going to have Gestapo checkpoints at every street corner and thousands of innocent Americans will be jailed as a result. The what ifs are becoming so far fetched that responding to them is becoming embarrassing and demeaning.

Fear the shadows, beware of the boogie man, hide under your bed. I personally a very low opinion of big government and no faith in the federal government to solve the problem of illegal immigrants. On the other had I have a great deal of faith in our Law Enforcement Officers. They have an extremely difficult job that they handle very well with little thanks or support from the people they serve. They make mistakes from time to time like all humans. But the vast majority of them are doing the best they can to serve and protect the citizens of their communities. The news media will jump all over everything they do wrong. The nay sayers will have lots of opportunities to say see I told you. But I for one plan to thank the next cop I have the opportunity to talk to.

You know they are watching us right now. They read what we write on the internet. Some of you have already been targeted for harassment and mistreatment. You better watch what you say.
 
jpccusa said:
The difference is that all coyotes eat chicken... Not all people that belong to a race that statistically steals more than others will for sure steal from the electronics department.
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I get you there. But if the majority of thefts are due to a specific race of people, then that specific race should surely be looked at closer. Thats logic. Are we as humans supposed to not be logical? Or do we leave that only to the Vulcans?
 
jpccusa said:
BTW, many illegal immigrants do pay taxes and never receive anything back (in case they are due).
Also, many illegal immigrants never use public healthcare. Many have insurance through employers or private.
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Your factual source?

jpccusa said:
The difference is that all coyotes eat chicken... Not all people that belong to a race that statistically steals more than others will for sure steal from the electronics department.
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You sure? Coyotes around here prefer fawns and ducks. Foxes eat chickens too. So does our mountain lion population. Bobcats. Pretty much any predator. Of course, if I had missing chickens I wouldn't hunt down the local sparrow population. Nor would I harass the neighbors cows.

D80
 
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At this point, I'm thinking we should all just agree to disagree. As with any polarizing issue, I'd guess that the probability of any person's argument for or against one side of the issue changing another person's belief about the other side of the issue isn't going to be very high.

'Course, that's just my thoughts, 'cause I don't like arguing :). On the other hand, it's a great thread for anyone with a desire to vent, no matter which way they feel!

Carry on :).
 
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Where to start:
I agree 70% of AZ voted for this bill, 30% of AZ population is Hispanic.
As I have been reading and watching all news channels including FOX, the next state to follow AZ will likely be Colorado.
I have yet to find exactly what proper documentation is!

Would I break this law if I could, yup I think so. Need my back yard weeded and cleaned up. Last guy we hired wanted $10.00, lunch and soda. All the while cell phone in hand. He was here a total of two hours wanted pay for four hours promising he would return the next day. He returned three days later. So for about the past week we have been weeding and cleaning our own back yard, we work slow. If I could go to a corner and pick someone up who would do the job I would. OH! GAWD I am a criminal, yes I am.

Like someone said you would think if citizens needed the money they would do the work, take pride in what they do.

Even food service ask teenagers who have never had a job if they will work at McDonalds, most will not. My gd refused to work at McDonalds went without a job for two months to get a job at a large home improvement store. She thinks it's great she hands out manure and other plant related. materials!!!!

Do I feel undocumented people should beneift from healthcare, welfare... NO. Do I think undocumented workers should be here...NO
Do I think someone has to do the work they do for what they make...YES
 
tsst said:
Huh?!?! :confused: :shrugs:
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It is not... those who enter the U.S. illegally are committing a crime but those who are here illegally (overstayed visas) are committing a civil offense, not a criminal violation.
There is a difference there, while the outcome (illegal immigration) is the same.
 
The U.S. has a long history of demographic targetting. It's not a history most are proud of and boast about. i.e., slavery, blacks openly treated as second class citizens, tolerance of the KKK to "manage" the problem, McCarthyism and communism,Cuban immigrants, Vietnamese boat people during the 70's, most recently the fear mongering created over Muslims........and this law fits right there amongst that way of thinking. Is it any wonder the U.S. struggles to put a positive light on their foreign policies?
This law won't reduce the number of illegals. There are just way too many. It won't stop cross border smuggling and illegal border crossings. It will simply cause illegals to locate out of Arizona once they have crossed the border. It's more or less a passing the buck kind of law.
Laws were already in place that enabled law enforcement to detain illegals if they were caught during routine identity checks. This law now creates this huge grey area of "reasonable suspiscion". It opens the door to racial profiling. It will happen. By nature, police will use and manipulate whatever tools they have at hand. This law provides just that "loophole".
Then again, I wouldn't expect anything less from the land of McCain.
 
Blutengel said:
LOL If I still was a single lady perhaps ;)

(What does DYK mean BTW? Did you know?)
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Lol, it means, "Do You Know", which is my bad since I'm in the habit of using it all the time in the DYK thread... :D I can be your cook! Pool boy? Ok...

Shiari said:
They should do randoms sweeps of all businesses (not all at the same time, obviously) and check the status of every single person in the facility. You'd catch more actual illegal immigrants that way, rather than for the crime of "living in arizona while hispanic".
Click to expand...

They actually do that here in Florida. They swooped in one day, blocked all the exits and swept our warehouse taking everyone without papers with them, (Latino's, Serbs, and/or Bosnians, as well as some other Eastern Block people). My friend who was born in LA, and a citizen, was taken because he didn't have his ID. When he got back he told us that they need more translators because that's what he ended up doing there for the 5 hours he waited for his wife to bring his drivers license. I think he works there now part time translating...
 
jpccusa said:
It is not... those who enter the U.S. illegally are committing a crime but those who are here illegally (overstayed visas) are committing a civil offense, not a criminal violation.
There is a difference there, while the outcome (illegal immigration) is the same.
Click to expand...
I apologize. I made the assumption we were talking about those here illegally from crossing the border in AZ not about expired student visas.
 
I don't get your whole debate jpccusa. Your upset that Arizona is cracking down on illegal immigrants by simply asking for proof of legal residence- which is done in EVERY foreign country I have visited. You carry your passport because if not you may be hauled away- it's the law and an easy one to follow. If every State enacted such a law illegal immigration would be reduced, and while I agree this particular law will only push illegals into other States after awhile these other States may crack down too eventually pushing our Federal government to do something about our problem. In my State I have seen once nice areas go down the drain and crime skyrocket because of large illegal populations. No, not every illegal is a violent criminal or a thief, but many are on the run from their country of origin because of past violent crimes, are gang members, drug dealers, and do nothing but contribute negatively to problems we already have all on our own.

I am also shocked you support companies hiring illegals so that their lower wages result in you buying goods for cheaper- exploitation of human labor is a pretty nasty thing to support. Maybe we can build huge concentration camps for the illegals to work for us and really help our economy! Calling this law inhumane but supporting the low wages illegals take is ridiculous.

I also disagree it's impossible to become a legal citizen. Sure it takes a few years, a lot of paperwork, and patience; but the bulk of my family immigrated here in the 60's and the rest in the 90's with few problems. They waited, followed the rules, and live here legally- shocking I know:)

Civil offenses are criminal in that they break civil laws I guess it depends on your definition of criminal, but all the same overstaying a visa is not legal especially when you just apply to have them elongated before they expire so there's no excuse for that in my opinion.
 
tsst said:
I apologize. I made the assumption we were talking about those here illegally from crossing the border in AZ not about expired student visas.
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No need to apologize. Many don't know that, and to be pretty frank, the concept doesn't make much sense.

So yes, immigrants (legal, "criminals", and civil offenders) will be asked for documents. Legal and civil offenders most likely won't have a problem, only the ones who crossed the border.

What good would that do if we will still have the civil offenders around?
 
ComoxCorn said:
The U.S. has a long history of demographic targetting. It's not a history most are proud of and boast about. i.e., slavery, blacks openly treated as second class citizens, tolerance of the KKK to "manage" the problem, McCarthyism and communism,Cuban immigrants, Vietnamese boat people during the 70's, most recently the fear mongering created over Muslims........and this law fits right there amongst that way of thinking.
Click to expand...

And here he goes again, everything is racism :uhoh:


It really does not fit right in there at all.
 
ComoxCorn said:
The U.S. has a long history of demographic targetting. It's not a history most are proud of and boast about. i.e., slavery, blacks openly treated as second class citizens, tolerance of the KKK to "manage" the problem, McCarthyism and communism,Cuban immigrants, Vietnamese boat people during the 70's, most recently the fear mongering created over Muslims........and this law fits right there amongst that way of thinking. Is it any wonder the U.S. struggles to put a positive light on their foreign policies?
This law won't reduce the number of illegals. There are just way too many. It won't stop cross border smuggling and illegal border crossings. It will simply cause illegals to locate out of Arizona once they have crossed the border. It's more or less a passing the buck kind of law.
Laws were already in place that enabled law enforcement to detain illegals if they were caught during routine identity checks. This law now creates this huge grey area of "reasonable suspiscion". It opens the door to racial profiling. It will happen. By nature, police will use and manipulate whatever tools they have at hand. This law provides just that "loophole".
Then again, I wouldn't expect anything less from the land of McCain.
Click to expand...

It is easy to sit back and take pot shots at what others are doing. I find your tone insulting. In fact I am having a great deal of trouble responding to your dribble while trying to remain civil. Why don't to tell us how we should run our country smart guy, you have all the answers.
 
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