Calls to boycott Arizona are spreading like a virus

[Lovin2act]

It is easy to sit back and take pot shots at what others are doing. I find your tone insulting. In fact I am having a great deal of trouble responding to your dribble while trying to remain civil. Why don't to tell us how we should run our country smart guy, you have all the answers.

Amen to that sir

 

[starsevol]

The U.S. has a long history of demographic targetting. It's not a history most are proud of and boast about. i.e., slavery, blacks openly treated as second class citizens, tolerance of the KKK to "manage" the problem, McCarthyism and communism,Cuban immigrants, Vietnamese boat people during the 70's, most recently the fear mongering created over Muslims........and this law fits right there amongst that way of thinking. Is it any wonder the U.S. struggles to put a positive light on their foreign policies?
This law won't reduce the number of illegals. There are just way too many. It won't stop cross border smuggling and illegal border crossings. It will simply cause illegals to locate out of Arizona once they have crossed the border. It's more or less a passing the buck kind of law.
Laws were already in place that enabled law enforcement to detain illegals if they were caught during routine identity checks. This law now creates this huge grey area of "reasonable suspiscion". It opens the door to racial profiling. It will happen. By nature, police will use and manipulate whatever tools they have at hand. This law provides just that "loophole".
Then again, I wouldn't expect anything less from the land of McCain.

So...If I snuck into Canada illegally, what would happen to me?

 

[jpccusa]

I don't get your whole debate jpccusa.

That's fine!

Your upset that Arizona is cracking down on illegal immigrants by simply asking for proof of legal residence- which is done in EVERY foreign country I have visited.

No I am not. I am concerned about possible racial profiling and the consequences that the law will bring to the Arizona citizens, such as my friends in the tourism business.

You carry your passport because if not you may be hauled away- it's the law and an easy one to follow.

True.

If every State enacted such a law illegal immigration would be reduced, and while I agree this particular law will only push illegals into other States after awhile these other States may crack down too eventually pushing our Federal government to do something about our problem.

Or we can push the government, specially the Congress, to tackle that issue ASAP by contacting our representatives, specially the ones who oppose an immigration reform (Republicans).

In my State I have seen once nice areas go down the drain and crime skyrocket because of large illegal populations. No, not every illegal is a violent criminal or a thief, but many are on the run from their country of origin because of past violent crimes, are gang members, drug dealers, and do nothing but contribute negatively to problems we already have all on our own.

True

I am also shocked you support companies hiring illegals so that their lower wages result in you buying goods for cheaper- exploitation of human labor is a pretty nasty thing to support.

I never said I support that. I just said that is what happens. I was pointing out facts. I was also stating that illegals don't mind working for lower wages, which in many cases can be debated if they are exploitative at all (since they are much more than what they would be making back in their countries. Is it exploitation if they are happily accepting that wage? Also, in case an immigration reform happens, employers would be paying minimum wage (if not already doing so), but there aren't many Americans willing to do back breaking work for that salary.

Maybe we can build huge concentration camps for the illegals to work for us and really help our economy! Calling this law inhumane but supporting the low wages illegals take is ridiculous.

I would rather illegals be brought out of the shadows by providing a way for them to become legal, then paying them whatever our government judges to be fair.

I also disagree it's impossible to become a legal citizen. Sure it takes a few years, a lot of paperwork, and patience; but the bulk of my family immigrated here in the 60's and the rest in the 90's with few problems. They waited, followed the rules, and live here legally- shocking I know

I actually was referring to people who are already here illegally. For those, there is very limited options.
Also, many people trying to immigrate here simply can't do it for reasons I already mentioned before (money, quotas, time, etc.)
Good to hear you come from a fortunate family of legal immigrants.

Civil offenses are criminal in that they break civil laws I guess it depends on your definition of criminal, but all the same overstaying a visa is not legal especially when you just apply to have them elongated before they expire so there's no excuse for that in my opinion.

Well, I was going by the definition of criminal as in the eyes of the law, not as what people believe to be considered a crime.
Now saying that you can have the visa elongated, well, I would say that is oversimplifying things. The real life is much more complicated than that.

 

[Outcast]

jpccusa, There is a way for them to become legal, I think you are over looking it... Or are you talking about a "You are now legal" grant from the president?
The reason that these people are illegal, is because they do not want to go through the correct channels in order to become legal. They have no ties to this country other than wanting to use what they can. If they get deported, they just come back across the border again, and again and again.

I don't understand your argument. To me it sounds like you are advocating a lot of stuff that you say you aren't.

 

[jpccusa]

jpccusa, There is a way for them to become legal, I think you are over looking it... Or are you talking about a "You are now legal" grant from the president?
The reason that these people are illegal, is because they do not want to go through the correct channels in order to become legal. They have no ties to this country other than wanting to use what they can. If they get deported, they just come back across the border again, and again and again.

I don't understand your argument. To me it sounds like you are advocating a lot of stuff that you say you aren't.

Let me try to explain what I mean then.
When I say it is almost impossible for an illegal person already in the US to become legal, I mean exactly that. Once you are here illegally, your options to fix that situation are very VERY limited. The most common is by getting married to a US citizen. Other than that, I don't know of any other way.

There is the option to go back to their countries and try to immigrate legally. Well, the issue is many people do not qualify for a visa (most don't). In order to receive a visa that allows a person to work in the US, you have to pass certain qualifications. If you don't, you are denied the entry. Also, in the case of agricultural workers, the number of visas granted is much smaller than the demand. Many workers trying to immigrate legally are denied entry, and yet, they know if they cross the border illegally, they will be able to get those jobs for which the visa was denied.

I don't think they are here to "use what they can." I think they are here in order to have a better life, and in turn, contribute to the country's economy. Give them a chance and they will help in the recession.

I hope I made more sense this time.

 

[ComoxCorn]

It is easy to sit back and take pot shots at what others are doing. I find your tone insulting. In fact I am having a great deal of trouble responding to your dribble while trying to remain civil. Why don't to tell us how we should run our country smart guy, you have all the answers.

This law is about illegal Mexican immigrants, for which laws were already in place. Laws should come into place that target employers who employ illegals, regardless of their origin. If you don't have a green card, you don't get a job. If the jobs are not made available to illegals, then the attraction of coming to the U.S. deminishes. There will always be illegal immigration for a variety of reasons. But taking away employment opportunities is certainly a start.
Whether you like or dislike the tone in which I write Wade, really is of little concern to me. I find this law perposterous to say the least and I stick by my opinion. Just like you can stick to yours.

Joe Arpeio, Sherrif of Mariposa County flat out stated this law targets illegals entering fron Mexico. But then, the pink underwear thing he started hasn't reduced crime in Arizona either.:nope:

So...If I snuck into Canada illegally, what would happen to me?

You would be detained by immigration services, attend a hearing, and more than likely be deported, just the same as you would be in the U.S. under already existing laws.

 

[starsevol]

This law is about illegal Mexican immigrants, for which laws were already in place. Laws should come into place that target employers who employ illegals, regardless of their origin. If you don't have a green card, you don't get a job. If the jobs are not made available to illegals, then the attraction of coming to the U.S. deminishes. There will always be illegal immigration for a variety of reasons. But taking away employment opportunities is certainly a start.
Whether you like or dislike the tone in which I write Wade, really is of little concern to me. I find this law perposterous to say the least and I stick by my opinion. Just like you can stick to yours.

Joe Arpeio, Sherrif of Mariposa County flat out stated this law targets illegals entering fron Mexico. But then, the pink underwear thing he started hasn't reduced crime in Arizona either.:nope:



You would be detained by immigration services, attend a hearing, and more than likely be deported, just the same as you would be in the U.S. under already existing laws.

Yes, there are laws already in place, but, get this...NO ONE IS ENFORCING THEM!!!!!!

No one is getting detained, attending a hearing, and being sent back by anybody. The people who are supposed to be doing this are looking the other way.

 

[ComoxCorn]

Yes, there are laws already in place, but, get this...NO ONE IS ENFORCING THEM!!!!!!

No one is getting detained, attending a hearing, and being sent back by anybody. The people who are supposed to be doing this are looking the other way.

That includes the State of Arizona

 

[airenlow]

That includes the State of Arizona

Not now! :dancer:

 

[jpccusa]

What I find interesting to see in threats like this is that most support an immigration reform, and yet, Republicans in the Congress refuse to tackle that problem before the elections this year. I hope something good come out of this flawed law in AZ, and that is a push for immigration reform ASAP and not next year. Politicians need to stop being cowards and self centered (seeking reelection) and need to start listening to their constituents a little more.

 

[Buzzard]

Yes, there are laws already in place, but, get this...NO ONE IS ENFORCING THEM!!!!!!.

Not all of them, The issue is they are not getting supported by the Federal gov't, to be able to do more of their job. The border Patrol officers I know try their best, they are just overwhelmed.

Again, Kudos to AZ for stepping up and taking action and watching out for themselves against "illegal" immigration.

 

[Outcast]

This kinda goes along with the whole "states rights" thing. Arizona has the right to pass whatever laws they like.

 

[wstphal]

What I find interesting to see in threats like this is that most support an immigration reform, and yet, Republicans in the Congress refuse to tackle that problem before the elections this year. I hope something good come out of this flawed law in AZ, and that is a push for immigration reform ASAP and not next year. Politicians need to stop being cowards and self centered (seeking reelection) and need to start listening to their constituents a little more.

I really agree. Whether one supports the AZ law or opposes it, I think it's pretty clear that US immigration laws are not working and not being enforced. There is a demand for more low income workers than we are letting in, so they sneak in illegally. Either we need to reduce the demand or we need to let applicants who try to do it the RIGHT way (ie by applying for a visa & work permit) come & take those jobs. AND we need to tighten up the borders (although this might well mean building a huge wall and putting a whole lot of military personnel on that wall). The Congresscritters need to tackle these issues. Neither the Dems nor the Repubs want to touch it with a 10 foot pole before the election this November though.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that the AZ foofooraw leads to some action at the Congresscritter level.

 

[Cflaguy]

This law does not target Mexicans.....

The law targets illegal aliens. My time considering and applying for Border Patrol I learned in any given week over 500 different nationalities cross the Rio Grande.

We are assuming we're going to see a Planet of the Apes type round-up of Latino's. We are counting the chickens before they're deported. We're the ones making the assumption. Of course, the locality to Mexico will surely stack the numbers in that direction yes. Anybody know how many illegal Asians are in this country? Serbs?

As I stated before, the law is solid. I'm not nieve enough to believe however some cowboy cops won't abuse a portion of the law to check out Latinos. This is of course wrong. But if you have the proper documentation you have nadda to worry about. If you're inconvienced for a few hours because you don't have the proper papers, who fault is that?

BTW, 42 states require their citizens carry ID while in public.

 

[wade]

This law is about illegal Mexican immigrants, for which laws were already in place. Laws should come into place that target employers who employ illegals, regardless of their origin. If you don't have a green card, you don't get a job. If the jobs are not made available to illegals, then the attraction of coming to the U.S. deminishes. There will always be illegal immigration for a variety of reasons. But taking away employment opportunities is certainly a start.
Whether you like or dislike the tone in which I write Wade, really is of little concern to me. I find this law perposterous to say the least and I stick by my opinion. Just like you can stick to yours.

Joe Arpeio, Sherrif of Mariposa County flat out stated this law targets illegals entering fron Mexico. But then, the pink underwear thing he started hasn't reduced crime in Arizona either.:nope:

Of course the Arizona law targets Mexicans, why would Arizona be concerned about Egypt? They are not patrolling the streets looking for Englishmen either.

The new law makes it illegal to hire an illegal. A very sensible move. It also makes it illegal to house or transport and illegal. Also a very sensible move. The point of the law is to make it difficult for Illegal Aliens to live in Arizona. Also a very sensible move. You are not coming up with any new ideas here, Mr. Comox. You appear to be agreeing with the fine people of Arizona.

Most violent crimes are committed by men. When looking for the perpetrators of violent crimes the police target men. That is not a sexist position that is logical. If you think looking for illegal aliens along the Mexican boarder is racist than I guess that will just have to be. Maybe we could encourage Canadians to swim down the coast and figure out a way to enter the country illegally from the south. Work on that will you?

You sir are welcome to your opinion. I have found that in this life there are problem solvers and problem identifiers. We know which you are, now get out of the way and let the problem solvers do their job.

 

[Lovin2act]

Of course the Arizona law targets Mexicans, why would Arizona be concerned about Egypt? They are not patrolling the streets looking for Englishmen either.

The new law makes it illegal to hire an illegal. A very sensible move. It also makes it illegal to house or transport and illegal. Also a very sensible move. The point of the law is to make it difficult for Illegal Aliens to live in Arizona. Also a very sensible move. You are not coming up with any new ideas here, Mr. Comox. You appear to be agreeing with the fine people of Arizona.

Most violent crimes are committed by men. When looking for the perpetrators of violent crimes the police target men. That is not a sexist position that is logical. If you think looking for illegal aliens along the Mexican boarder is racist than I guess that will just have to be. Maybe we could encourage Canadians to swim down the coast and figure out a way to enter the country illegally from the south. Work on that will you?

You sir are welcome to your opinion. I have found that in this life there are problem solvers and problem identifiers. We know which you are, now get out of the way and let the problem solvers do their job.

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

 

[ComoxCorn]

Of course the Arizona law targets Mexicans, why would Arizona be concerned about Egypt? They are not patrolling the streets looking for Englishmen either.

Glad to see you changed your tune from earlier posts when you said this law targets "illegals". At least we now agree on this point.

The new law makes it illegal to hire an illegal. A very sensible move. It also makes it illegal to house or transport and illegal. Also a very sensible move. The point of the law is to make it difficult for Illegal Aliens to live in Arizona. Also a very sensible move. You are not coming up with any new ideas here, Mr. Comox. You appear to be agreeing with the fine people of Arizona.

I believe those laws already exist on a federal level. This isn't innovative on Arizona's part.

Most violent crimes are committed by men. When looking for the perpetrators of violent crimes the police target men. That is not a sexist position that is logical. Of course it is logical if evidence at a crime scene supports that. If you think looking for illegal aliens along the Mexican boarder is racist than I guess that will just have to be. This law is statewide, not merely confined to the border. Maybe we could encourage Canadians to swim down the coast and figure out a way to enter the country illegally from the south. Work on that will you? There are thousands of miles of unprotected borders between the U.S. and Canada, sorry, we don't need to go for a swim. That comment must have been tequila generated....:nope:

You sir are welcome to your opinion. I have found that in this life there are problem solvers and problem identifiers. We know which you are, now get out of the way and let the problem solvers do their job.
I wasn't aware that I had an obligation to solve the problem. Just the same as you have done nothing to solve the problem. A thread like this allows people on both sides to voice their opinion. Sorry you object to freedom of opinion.

 

[Tara80]

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

I Concur!!! GREAT POST WADE!!:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

This is when my signature comes in handy:

"A pessimist is one who makes difficulties of his opportunities and an optimist is one who makes opportunities of his difficulties" -Harry S Truman


Ain't it the truth.

 

[wade]

Comox, I'm not going to play your games, nor am I going to loose sleep over your insults. Thanks for your input, your opinions are worth exactly what I paid for them.

 

[danielle]

Comox, The thing is everything Arizona has proposed in this law is already a Federal law, but the feds don't enforce the laws nor reimburse States when they enforce them, which is why so many States have turned a blind eye to illegals- it's terribly expensive to deport an illegal to have them hop your border a week later. Border States have a much greater problem with this kick em out watch them hop back in circus and have had it. Illegals place economic strain on States whose budgets are already strained. Illegals can't pay taxes they don't have SS #'s, can't get legal insurance so they drain State insurance funds, clog up already crowded jails, and raise already high crime rates- they are a burden.

I don't see why any State should bare this type of financial burden on account of their tourism business or need to underpay workers. Illegals who break the law should have to pay in the same ways citizens who break the law do, and here they don't because their not nationals. All we can do is send them home to countries who don't punish them for leaving since it eases their budgets when their gone, and therefore they come right back. It's not Arizona's fault Mexico happens to be the country they border with or that the bulk of the illegals there happen to be from Mexico- it's kinda a no brainer yes the law targets the population most likely to be breaking the law- duh! I propose we ship all of our illegals to Canada and then your country can figure out how to get them to come in legally- would that work for you?