• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

Cold weather shipping question

Final entry:
I put the box in the freezer. The inside of the box was 89* when I put it in. The freezer was 0*. Within one hour the inside of the box was 20*.

I don’t have any way to chill the box to a temperature between 34 and 0. My fridge and freezer are my only two options. Our outside temperatures don’t get as cold as my fridge.

It has been 24 hours since I opened the heat pack. When the box is sitting on the counter at room temperature (73) the inside of the box is 85. So the heat pack is still working.

What I learned: Two big surprises for me. One was that the heat pack took 3 to 4 hours before it was really helping. Before that the box would assume ambient temperatures. The second surprise to me was that the insulation did not help much. When I chilled the box the inside temperature would start to drop after about 20 minutes and was cold within an hour.

When in the fridge at 34* the box stayed within survivable temperatures. When in the freezer at 0* it quickly dropped to temperatures that would probably kill the snake. Unfortunately I can’t tell you what would happen at 20* or 10*.
 
You know what I'd like to know, Wade. If you put the deli cup ON the heat pack, (with aspen inside the deli, and the probe inside the deli) with some sort of buffer in between, could the heat pack act as a UTH without having to heat the entire box, while at the same time not roasting the snake during the time periods the box was sitting in a heated building.
 
Ok, I took the heat pack out and laid it directly on top of the thermometer probe. The heat pack is 105.7*. I don't know the answer to your question Nanci other than to say that you would have to experiment with how much aspen/buffer you would need to separate the snake from the heat.
 
Nanci said:
You know what I'd like to know, Wade. If you put the deli cup ON the heat pack, (with aspen inside the deli, and the probe inside the deli) with some sort of buffer in between, could the heat pack act as a UTH without having to heat the entire box, while at the same time not roasting the snake during the time periods the box was sitting in a heated building.
Click to expand...
I think I'd rather have the snake cold than potentially cook it. It seems the heat packs are more conductive than radiative.
Any chance you'd try the experiment with two 40hr. packs wade? I only have a temp gun and that wouldn't be conducive to getting the proper temp reading.
Also did you poke holes into the sides of the box? ( I don't)

Oh, Has or was it generating heat into 40 hrs?
 
Wayne:

Just say this. Hope not too late.

I personally wouldn't ship until after the holidays. Shipping volume is a larger concern than temps right now. With that said, I like to not ship when TOO far below freezing (like not to AK in lat January....lol) and use the heat pack in a GOOD insulated box (no holes), of course. Ship ONLY to a business by 10:30am if in the solid 40s, and ship only HOLD FOR PICK-UP if below the solid 40s.

That's it. Otherwise, I've shipped every month of the year, and to most states of the CONUS during the "cold" months. Lost some SIGB babies once (forced to ship on a day I didn't want to - buyer's choice!), but I can't think of any corns rthat died during shipping.

With that said, I've had a few deaths on hatchlings occur POST-SHIPPING that were likely due to cold temps (house deliveries, I bet!)......but I could never prove that one way or the other. For me, replacements were easy, so it wasn't worrying WHY except to fill sorry for the snakes...whatever the reason they didn't make it.

Of course, when novice owners buy the snakes, you often wonder if it was shipping or their actual care versus the reported care....lol. ;(

KJ
 
Great experiment, Wade!

I did a somewhat similar experiment many years ago. But I had only a max / min thermometer, and no probe. So I just put it in the fridge for a while, checked it, and put it in the freezer for a while. Not very scientific, but still helpful. I don't remember the exact results, but they helped guide me to my shipping rules I now follow.

I don't see any sticky about shipping. We have discussed shipping guidelines in many threads. Maybe we should write up an FAQ on shipping, and ask the mods to sticky it. You could write up a summary of everything you found out in your experiment, pointing out the size box you used, and the fact that different sized boxes will net different results. And we could also put a link to the SYR video, too. Then we could point questions towards a much more exhaustive answer (FAQ) to the shipping question than could be provided by a new thread each time.

What does everyone (and the mods) think of that idea?
 
I'd recommend NOT letting the heat packs touch a cup. not good in MANY cases.

Something we all know but often don't think about: heat packs consume oxygen to produce heat. (This may have bne4en mentioned - I haven't read every post.) Extra heat packs often do NOT produce much extra heat in a small box because of the limited amount of oxygen available. The way to get them to produce more heat is via additional ventilation, but that means MORE COLD AIR going in......and that usually means overall internal temps are reduced not increased. Personally, in a small box, I like one pack ONLY. ...and it'll be producing less heat before they open the box that when you first pack it AND after they first open it. Larger boxes might benefit from 2.

Also, 20 hour heat packs run less time (OK, I stated the obvious....lol), but they run HOTTER. I keep 20, 30, 40, and 60 hour packs in stock....and I use theshorter ones when I need warmer temps and vice versa. The longer ones take longer to reach peak temps, too.

KJ
 
There was a person who posted the story of a shipping accident last winter, or the winter before. The snake was, I believe, very nearly frozen when it arrived. It thawed out, but wasn't right, and I don't know if we ever heard the eventual outcome, but the snake definitely had neurological damage.
 
I haven't read all the posts. What I would find very interesting. Is if we knew the temperatures of the storage on the plane and the temps of the boxes on the trucks.

I think if they were remotely warmer than the temps outside.. Which you think they would be. That would be a huge help. Sorry I have no experience with this Wade. But if the packages were outside for short periods of time and say 40 or 50 in the truck/plane.. I wouldn't feel so bad shipping. But, we don't know the temperatures they are kept at unfortunately.

Good luck!
 
I have tried to pin down FedEx and UPS about how the packages are handled but they are real reluctant to commit to anything. I know but the FedEx and UPS depots here are indoors but they have big bay doors that are open most of the time, so I would think the temps are very close to outdoor temps.

I don’t know what the temps would be at the different hubs and how much time the package spend being transferred from the plane to the terminal and back to another plane.

My experiment this weekend showed me that it doesn’t take long in cold temperatures before you are really relying on the heat pack.

I think Kathy’s idea of a sticky is a good one. I don’t feel like I have time to write it right now but if nobody else does I will at a later date.
 
I probably wouldn't get around to writing anything until after the holidays, either. I could probably write up a general shipping guidelines the way I do it, and maybe you could summarize your experiment.

I think there was an old thread on Fauna at one time detailing some info somebody found out about airplane temps, I think on FedEx. If anyone has time (or inclination) to find it, maybe post a link here.

When packages are held at a regular, FedEx staffed FedEx, so far all of my customers have said that they were held in the heated office. So I don't think they are held TOO long in the cold (or hot in summer) warehouse. I really think that holding at FedEx is a key to successful, low stress (for animals) shipping in cold or hot weather.

Another "trick" I have used in really cold or hot weather is to put the deli cup inside of a bubble wrap type envelope mailer. I stuff it with crumpled newspaper to make it as filled out as possible, to contain as much air as possible. Then I seal it to provide more insulation than just the box. I have considered putting in a gel pack (usually used for cooling, but at room temp) to provide thermal mass so the package won't change temps as quickly. A soda bottle full of water would do the same thing, as long as the box is big enough, and as long as you are sure the bottle won't leak. I haven't actually done this myself, but may do so in the future. (the next person who wants to experiment as Wade has, could try using some thermal mass to see how much difference it would make).
 
I wonder how you would go about handling using heat packs or not when say you are shipping from a cold area (say 40's) to a warmer area (80+)?...or vice versa.

Also, does anyone know how much exposure to outside/cold temps a package has if it is dropped off at a fedex and picked up at a fedex, vs being dropped off at a home/business. I.e. what are the temperatures in trucks, hubs, plane cargo holds, etc...

Edit: noticed I kind of mirrored what Kathy wrote in the last post, I'd be interested in seeing the plane temps thread if anyone finds it.
 
I remember that thread Steph, it would be a good idea to combine both aspects of shipping in adverse weather.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top