CS.com Primary!

[Rich Z]

"But this puzzles me, and maybe someone can straighten me out. Why is voting FOR Obama because he is black, not racist, and people voting AGAINST him because he is black, IS racist? Sorry, but that confuses me...."...

Is it the actual word "racism" that confuses you? Again, just asking. Not voting for Obama on the premise of his skin color is a form of racism. Racism comes in many forms, so perhaps this also should help your confusion.

If you cannot comprehend my question, it's OK to say so rather than just making waving motions with your hands and noises from your nostrils while you dance around my question without answering it...... So again, why is voting FOR Obama strictly because OF his skin color NOT considered to be racism? I DO understand what the word means, just not how it is being APPLIED in this context. Oh, perhaps to you, "racism" only means anti-blacks? But anti-white does not fit the definition as you know it? Interesting........ And I suppose that word "discrimination" is equally a one way street, eh?

Seriously, if blacks HONESTLY want to integrate themselves into society, they really should stop trying to make themselves stand APART from it. Be an AMERICAN, not a BLACK AMERICAN, WHITE AMERICAN, AMERICAN INDIAN, CHINESE AMERICAN, or any other qualifier you can think of to tack in front of that word "AMERICAN". Maybe these racism problems will then, and likely ONLY then, start to heal themselves.

 

[Rich Z]

Again, just making observations, not judging. But I'm still not sure who these "uneducated" group of people are, and I don't want to go off of assumption. And seeing I doubt you literally mean the few people in these videos actually swayed the entire election and undermined democracy and freedom, I'm curious who this group was... that's question #1.

Secondly... about these "uneducated" people... why is it that you seem to accuse them of not understanding how the constitution and how the government works?

If I were to make an observation, I would say that having had every previous president be white, would it not have been the failing of the government on behalf of previous (just so happened to be white) presidents, to give them a reason to not vote white, and to elect a (just so happened to be black) man as president (for one time in the history of the USA).

There also seems to be a relation between this unprecedented presidency and the sudden boost of "uneducated" people who seem to be accused of being the problem to the voting process. And of these "uneducated" people, I'm curious how many times you criticized them during the George Bush election... again, just asking. And to add further, I'm also curious how much you've had to say on the basis of a white person voting for a president under the same basis. Or has that not ever been a factor in the history of our country?

Yes, it was an "unprecedented" election, because in the first time in American history, many people voted both FOR and AGAINST candidates simply because of the RACE of each of the candidates. BOTH methods of choosing THAT criteria for the deciding factor in voting is just DEAD WRONG, in my opinion. Inescapable, because of the way society just is unfortunately, but still the wrong way to choose the leader of our country.

 

[Carinata]

Seriously, if blacks HONESTLY want to integrate themselves into society, they really should stop trying to make themselves stand APART from it. Be an AMERICAN, not a BLACK AMERICAN, WHITE AMERICAN, AMERICAN INDIAN, CHINESE AMERICAN, or any other qualifier you can think of to tack in front of that word "AMERICAN". Maybe these racism problems will then, and likely ONLY then, start to heal themselves.

BEST POST EVER!

 

[Rich Z]

Speaking of voting, THIS is interesting, I think....

 

[willderphil]

If you cannot comprehend my question, it's OK to say so rather than just making waving motions with your hands and noises from your nostrils while you dance around my question without answering it......

Because of the way you phrased your question putting voting against him because of his race at the end and capitalizing is it seemed like you were emphasizing that part of your question and didn't really know why it is racist to vote against him because of his color. that is why he answered you that way.I am sure you both agree that voting for or against someone based on race is racist.

 

[Michael823]

If you cannot comprehend my question, it's OK to say so rather than just making waving motions with your hands and noises from your nostrils while you dance around my question without answering it...... So again, why is voting FOR Obama strictly because OF his skin color NOT considered to be racism? I DO understand what the word means, just not how it is being APPLIED in this context. Oh, perhaps to you, "racism" only means anti-blacks? But anti-white does not fit the definition as you know it? Interesting........ And I suppose that word "discrimination" is equally a one way street, eh?

Although I think this post is unwarranted, at least in the assumption that it's a response to me, and especially in the context that I have yet to directly even mention what "it" is by name to draw such a specifically directed response. But I have, and will continue to remain passive. If that's "dancing around a question", than I guess it just is what it is. But I have to suspect that you would really have no idea what I meant in the ambiguity of my response, in order to say that I'm "dancing". But if that was the case, than why have you seemed to so aggressively turn this into a race discussion? Again, I have said nothing about race.

We can pull the typical "you never answered my question" card, but I have zero interest in bickering, and I think by the tone of my discussion my initial observation was accurate enough to speak for itself.

Seriously, if blacks HONESTLY want to integrate themselves into society, they really should stop trying to make themselves stand APART from it. Be an AMERICAN, not a BLACK AMERICAN, WHITE AMERICAN, AMERICAN INDIAN, CHINESE AMERICAN, or any other qualifier you can think of to tack in front of that word "AMERICAN". Maybe these racism problems will then, and likely ONLY then, start to heal themselves.

I'm curious what you're idea of integrating is? Like perhaps becoming the president of the USA... or is that over-integrating? Just asking for some clarification. And are you familiar with the great Martin Luther King jr? Maybe you're already aware of his brilliance, based on your (seemingly) equal concern over integration.

 

[Michael823]

Because of the way you phrased your question putting voting against him because of his race at the end and capitalizing is it seemed like you were emphasizing that part of your question and didn't really know why it is racist to vote against him because of his color. that is why he answered you that way.I am sure you both agree that voting for or against someone based on race is racist.

Thank you! I guess it just shows up to some people.

 

[Michael823]

People on the street who vote, show them a set of pictures of famous faces. They can identify pop stars, rappers, reality tv stars, then show them a picture of the vice president, the minority whip, the speaker of the house, the chairman of the federal reserve.....and see how well they do.

The only response I have for this, is that this is an all-inclusive problem. So alongside "people on the street", there's plenty of people on the dirt road and across the white picket fence that also suffer from their lack of understanding. And along with the people who can identify "rappers" there are also those who can identify country stars, rock & roll bands and cartoon characters more easily than our elected officials. Of the people I know, some very smart... some not, some well-to-do... some not-so... I would say that they would all fair equally poorly in identifying even the high ranking members of our government.

Yes, the people in the video are a classic example of the uneducated voter, and they happen to be black. But uneducated white people have been messing things up for decades, this is not a new thing. And it is not just Presidential elections, it is local politics as well.

And I can take this and say that I agree 100%!!! Really where I wanted to see this conversation go in the first place. It's also words like this that I can completely appreciate "happen to be black". At the end of the day, we all only "happen to be" light, dark, fat, skinny, ugly, pretty, famous or snooki, and I think prefacing it with "happens to be" makes all the difference in even having dialogue about race.

Why isn't the Constitution taught in schools? Anybody? Bueller??

Because we have a flawed and unequal school system, and because concerned citizens would rather express disdain for those who the system failed, rather than help or teach them how to succeed.

But, having watched those videos, are YOU comfortable with the future of the free world being in their hands? No the election was not swayed by these few, but these are just a small percentage of what is out there voting....scary!!

Saying that I am, or am not comfortable in the free world being in someone's hands is irrelevant. As long as ignorance exists, in any area of life, we will always be at the mercy of it. Understanding is the only cure for ignorance, so I can't necessarily condemn people for a lack of understanding if I'm not helping them to understand first.

There's a lot that we all don't understand, and some people have had even less opportunity to learn. I don't think the country (even with a president that happens to be black) has fully adopted the idea that "those children" are really "our children". It's not due to a lack of potential that children don't grow, it's due to a lack of love and encouragement.

 

[Carinata]

Although I think this post is unwarranted, at least in the assumption that it's a response to me, and especially in the context that I have yet to directly even mention what "it" is by name to draw such a specifically directed response. But I have, and will continue to remain passive. If that's "dancing around a question", than I guess it just is what it is. But I have to suspect that you would really have no idea what I meant in the ambiguity of my response, in order to say that I'm "dancing". But if that was the case, than why have you seemed to so aggressively turn this into a race discussion? Again, I have said nothing about race.

We can pull the typical "you never answered my question" card, but I have zero interest in bickering, and I think by the tone of my discussion my initial observation was accurate enough to speak for itself.

I'm curious what you're idea of integrating is? Like perhaps becoming the president of the USA... or is that over-integrating? Just asking for some clarification. And are you familiar with the great Martin Luther King jr? Maybe you're already aware of his brilliance, based on your (seemingly) equal concern over integration.

Obama is half black so he's just as much white as he is black. He's half honkey, all donkey!

 

[starsevol]

The only response I have for this, is that this is an all-inclusive problem. So alongside "people on the street", there's plenty of people on the dirt road and across the white picket fence that also suffer from their lack of understanding. And along with the people who can identify "rappers" there are also those who can identify country stars, rock & roll bands and cartoon characters more easily than our elected officials. Of the people I know, some very smart... some not, some well-to-do... some not-so... I would say that they would all fair equally poorly in identifying even the high ranking members of our government.

And I can take this and say that I agree 100%!!! Really where I wanted to see this conversation go in the first place. It's also words like this that I can completely appreciate "happen to be black". At the end of the day, we all only "happen to be" light, dark, fat, skinny, ugly, pretty, famous or snooki, and I think prefacing it with "happens to be" makes all the difference in even having dialogue about race.

Because we have a flawed and unequal school system, and because concerned citizens would rather express disdain for those who the system failed, rather than help or teach them how to succeed.

Saying that I am, or am not comfortable in the free world being in someone's hands is irrelevant. As long as ignorance exists, in any area of life, we will always be at the mercy of it. Understanding is the only cure for ignorance, so I can't necessarily condemn people for a lack of understanding if I'm not helping them to understand first.

There's a lot that we all don't understand, and some people have had even less opportunity to learn. I don't think the country (even with a president that happens to be black) has fully adopted the idea that "those children" are really "our children". It's not due to a lack of potential that children don't grow, it's due to a lack of love and encouragement.

To clarify my opinion of the scary uneducated voter who should not be allowed within 100 yards of a voting booth, my own mother is a prime example. I love her to pieces, but she has no clue about the issues. True story, last week she cancelled the newspaper. She does not have a computer and does not know how to use one, but she cancelled her newspaper. Why, you ask? Because they stopped running the "Rex Morgan" comic strip!! She said since they did that, she no longer reads the comics, the sports page is wasted on her, and she does not care about politics, she can get all the news she needs on "Good Morning America".!!!!!!!!
And yet she votes......

My sisters, on the other hand......Well, we are polar opposites politically. They are wealthy Massachusetts liberals, and I am a social libertarian, fiscal conservative. They are educated, know all the issues, and vote accordingly. Even though we disagaree, I wish all voters were like them, as far as knowing what they are pulling the switch for.

So when I say uneducated, I don't mean someone who disagrees with me politcially. Let me make that clear.

 

[Carinata]

Beth, I completly agree with you! This is my first voting year and I'm still learning the issues.

 

[Nova_C]

Seriously, if blacks HONESTLY want to integrate themselves into society, they really should stop trying to make themselves stand APART from it. Be an AMERICAN, not a BLACK AMERICAN, WHITE AMERICAN, AMERICAN INDIAN, CHINESE AMERICAN, or any other qualifier you can think of to tack in front of that word "AMERICAN". Maybe these racism problems will then, and likely ONLY then, start to heal themselves.

So the problem is that black people just haven't been doing things the way you want them to? Do you honestly believe the racism that has been perpetuated for the entire history of the United States is the responsibility for those who have been prejudiced against to fix?

Rich, no other president in history (That I know of) has had a sustained campaign against him that is trying to convince the world that he is not American. You know, you KNOW this would not be happening if he wasn't black. There is still an ingrained perception that "American" equals a WASP that speaks english.

It is not the responsibility of black people to make themselves more like white people.

 

[tsst]

Alright, I have seriously tried to stay un-accusatory in recent political threads, and I'll continue with that decision. That said, I can't help but notice one thing about all of the videos that you have posted... that's all I'm going to say! And if you know what I mean, you also have to know that I'm right.

They all point to the abuses of big gov to entrap the less fortunate. And the less fortunate allowing themselves to be entrapped. And the vicious cycle of buy and selling votes (not literal) based on the give and take power of gov. The willingness of some to simply believe a campaign slogan rather than educating themselves with facts.

Your proclamation of being un-accusatory combined with the vague implication of your post leads only to presumptions that may or may not be correct. If you have a question for me I would much rather you simply state it.

I consider uneducated voters (not necessarily stupid people in general) to be those that vote with no real understanding of what the candidate they support stands for or intends to do once elected. I don't believe the uneducated voter fits in any category other than uneducated voter. I, like Bethany, am critical of uneducated voters even in my own family.

If I were to make an observation, I would say that having had every previous president be white, would it not have been the failing of the government on behalf of previous (just so happened to be white) presidents, to give them a reason to not vote white, and to elect a (just so happened to be black) man as president (for one time in the history of the USA).

I contend absolutely not. Voting based on skin color, for or against, is wrong no matter how one chooses to justify it.

... I don't think the country (even with a president that happens to be black) has fully adopted the idea that "those children" are really "our children". It's not due to a lack of potential that children don't grow, it's due to a lack of love and encouragement.

I feel this president has done more to divide than to heal whether with regards to race, socio-economics or religion. JMHO

 

[Rich Z]

So the problem is that black people just haven't been doing things the way you want them to? Do you honestly believe the racism that has been perpetuated for the entire history of the United States is the responsibility for those who have been prejudiced against to fix?

Rich, no other president in history (That I know of) has had a sustained campaign against him that is trying to convince the world that he is not American. You know, you KNOW this would not be happening if he wasn't black. There is still an ingrained perception that "American" equals a WASP that speaks english.

It is not the responsibility of black people to make themselves more like white people.

Really? What other president have we had that there was any QUESTION about his true nationality? Regardless of color. Do you honestly believe that had there been any question at all concerning George W. Bush being a bonafide native born American citizen that the liberal media wouldn't have ripped into that like a buzz saw? :laugh:

It's not a question of blacks "acting like white people" at all. It's about blacks saying that they do not want to be treated differently from white people, yet doing the exact opposite. When they claim that they don't want to be "segregated", but instead "integrated" into American society, how can this be true with the evidence we are presented by their very own actions? Why is a "Black Miss America" pageant OK, but if there was a "White Miss America" pageant there would be claims of racism? I have seen publications entitled something like "The Black Business Directory", which implies what exactly? But if someone were to publish a "White Business Directory", that would be decried as "discriminatory" and "racist". There is a congressional Black Caucus, but why no White Caucus? Hell in my younger days I was told by a job recruiter that if I were "black and female" he would have no problem finding me a job. What exactly does "discrimination" mean?

So my point, which some seem to be studiously ignoring, is that if blacks really want "integration" and to end "discrimination", then they have to stop engaging in the very same activities that they find so abhorrent when directed at them. Seriously, if there is a better example of trying to make two "wrongs" equal a "right" I sure can't think of it.

And in case people missed my original question, and the reason this turned in the direction it did, I'll repeat it again:

Why is voting FOR Obama because he is black, not racist, and people voting AGAINST him because he is black, IS racist?

No, I am not racist. Quite the exact opposite, in fact. I really don't care what race, creed, sex, age, or whatever you are. I will judge you by how you ACT, what you DO, and who you ARE as a person. But if everyone wants an even playing field for their lives, then everyone has to play by the same rules.

 

[tsst]

So the problem is that black people just haven't been doing things the way you want them to? Do you honestly believe the racism that has been perpetuated for the entire history of the United States is the responsibility for those who have been prejudiced against to fix?

Rich, no other president in history (That I know of) has had a sustained campaign against him that is trying to convince the world that he is not American. You know, you KNOW this would not be happening if he wasn't black. There is still an ingrained perception that "American" equals a WASP that speaks english.

It is not the responsibility of black people to make themselves more like white people.

It is the responsibility of EVERY American to make our country better. Choosing to continue the race game on either side only suceeds in dividing.

 

[Carinata]

Really? What other president have we had that there was any QUESTION about his true nationality? Regardless of color. Do you honestly believe that had there been any question at all concerning George W. Bush being a bonafide native born American citizen that the liberal media wouldn't have ripped into that like a buzz saw? :laugh:

It's not a question of blacks "acting like white people" at all. It's about blacks saying that they do not want to be treated differently from white people, yet doing the exact opposite. When they claim that they don't want to be "segregated", but instead "integrated" into American society, how can this be true with the evidence we are presented by their very own actions? Why is a "Black Miss America" pageant OK, but if there was a "White Miss America" pageant there would be claims of racism? I have seen publications entitled something like "The Black Business Directory", which implies what exactly? But if someone were to publish a "White Business Directory", that would be decried as "discriminatory" and "racist". There is a congressional Black Caucus, but why no White Caucus? Hell in my younger days I was told by a job recruiter that if I were "black and female" he would have no problem finding me a job. What exactly does "discrimination" mean?

So my point, which some seem to be studiously ignoring, is that if blacks really want "integration" and to end "discrimination", then they have to stop engaging in the very same activities that they find so abhorrent when directed at them. Seriously, if there is a better example of trying to make two "wrongs" equal a "right" I sure can't think of it.

And in case people missed my original question, and the reason this turned in the direction it did, I'll repeat it again:

Why is voting FOR Obama because he is black, not racist, and people voting AGAINST him because he is black, IS racist?

No, I am not racist. Quite the exact opposite, in fact. I really don't care what race, creed, sex, age, or whatever you are. I will judge you by how you ACT, what you DO, and who you ARE as a person. But if everyone wants an even playing field for their lives, then everyone has to play by the same rules.

So glad someone had the balls to post this! Big kudos to Rich,

 

[Nova_C]

It doesn't take balls to post ignorance, Carinata.

The fact of the matter is, there is a black Miss America and a black caucus because there needs to be. If there wasn't then there would be even more of an imbalance, even more of a stacked deck against black people. The white support group that you are seeking IS the US Government, IS the power structure, IS the system that you want blacks to submit to.

As far as the question of Obama's birth, why was it a question? People accused him of being not-American, but why? What was it about him that raised the question? And even now, years after his long form birth certificate was released, there is still a desperate campaign to prove that he is Kenyan, not American. The birth certificate should have ended it, but he doesn't look like the other Presidents. He's not white enough to be president. So people insist he is not American.

 

[Blue Apple Herps]

Unfortunately, the GOP is handing Obama a second term on a silver platter. It's a big circus full of clowns. Obama probably should lose this election, but the GOP is screwing it so royally he's most likely going to win. I don't necessarily think Obama will be good for the country, but I'm confident any of the GOP hopefuls would be bad for the country.

 

[Carinata]

So it's fair that blacks get things whites don't? We have a black history month that's never been questioned, my school tried to have a confederate history month and all the black people lost it! Is that fair?

 

[Rich Z]

It doesn't take balls to post ignorance, Carinata.

The fact of the matter is, there is a black Miss America and a black caucus because there needs to be. If there wasn't then there would be even more of an imbalance, even more of a stacked deck against black people. The white support group that you are seeking IS the US Government, IS the power structure, IS the system that you want blacks to submit to.

As far as the question of Obama's birth, why was it a question? People accused him of being not-American, but why? What was it about him that raised the question? And even now, years after his long form birth certificate was released, there is still a desperate campaign to prove that he is Kenyan, not American. The birth certificate should have ended it, but he doesn't look like the other Presidents. He's not white enough to be president. So people insist he is not American.

Needs to be? :laugh:

Again -> Why is voting FOR Obama because he is black, not racist, and people voting AGAINST him because he is black, IS racist?

Because it "needs to be" that way? :laugh: :laugh:

I believe YOUR prejudice is showing here.....