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Dealing with "humanists"

lilwing89

New member
Someone recently approached me about my keeping of snakes and referred to my new python as a "poor creature" who will have a "miserable" life according to "snake standards" because I decided to "keep her as a pet".

How irritating and disrespectful! I really didn't know what to say. How would you folks handle such a pretentious idiot?
 
"Yeah, okay, sure, whatever helps you sleep at night."

I pride myself in knowing that I'm the one who has spent hours upon hours of research, not them, and that I don't try to make myself believe that my snakes call up the ones over in Africa or Florida and talk about their new pads.

"Hey dude!"
"Duuuude!"
"I got bought buy this young chick who put me in this really big glass box!"
"Really? What else you got?"
"Lots of aspen! Mounds and mounds of it! A pipping hot mouse every week that doesn't fight back, the perfect warm spot day and night, 24/7. All the flora I could dream of!"
"..."
"Um... you there dude?"
 
id tell them o i know poore baby with a guarenteed meal whenever it needs and being able to basc in the heat without fear of predators what an aweful life
 
Really, they dont know anything. You should just ignore the people who contradict you about keeping snakes as pets. And like Shenzisixaxis said your the one who spent hours reaserching about snakes, not them. They really are just trying to put you down. But just ignore them. I hate those types of people too. Your not alone.
 
I would either totally ignore what they said and just change the subject right in front of them. OR if on a bitchy day... I would just say.. "well, hey, they are warm, safe and dry... seems to me out in the wild they would have to fight to get all that".... THEN change the subject.

You can't make everyone happy, no matter how much you try.. or don't try.. LOL
 
According to "snake standards"? Has a group of snakes convened to agree on a quality of life index? And if so, how has this person been informed of it? Do they speak snake?

If I have learned anything in the short time that I have been keeping snakes, it is that they are simple creatures without the burden of complex, socially mediated thoughts and feelings. It's something I like about them. Given adequate space, food, water, hides and temperature gradients, I doubt they feel like they need to complain about anything. Nor do they probably have any concept of what life in the wild is like or how it would compare to life in the viv. People feel miserable when they can imagine how life might be different. I don't think snakes have a point of comparison, but can simply perceive whether or not their needs are met and based on that, whether or not they are suffering.

Suggesting that a snake is miserable in captivity is anthropomorphizing. While I don't think snakes are stupid creatures that function entirely on pre-programmed instincts (they learn and remember things), I highly doubt they even understand the concept of captivity or possess the intellectual capacity to compare captivity to anything else. An enriching and healthy environment can be easily created for snakes in captivity and I am sure that as long as snakes do not feel cramped/sick/exposed/the wrong temperature, they are content. Snakes like places that make them feel secure and my snakes voluntarily return to their own vivs when they're tired of being handled; it's familiar and comfortable territory to them. I don't think snakes make escape attempts for the sake of some idea of freedom. My snakes only get restless when something about the viv environment is not meeting a need -- hides aren't good enough, the tank space has been outgrown, the snake is hungry. Once the issues are corrected, the escape behavior stops.

Personally, I would explain to this person that they are anthropomorphizing, but if they refuse to listen to reason and are instead wrapped up in their own feelings about this issue, there's not much to be done.

On a not totally related note, I do sometimes think about my disconnect from nature when I look at my vivs. Living in the city, it's like I unconsciously need to put some of nature in a glass box so that I don't feel so separated from it.
 
If you think thats bad you should hear some of the comments I have received from people in person and online about me hunting. There are some that could care less I hunt and fish for food not trophies to them I am still some kind of murderer.

Your snakes im sure have a much healthier life than if they were in the wild. They receive food on a regular basis, the health care they need if they become injured, and they dont have to worry about being eaten by another animal. Like was said above they are trying to put their emotions into the snake when the snake (especially if cb) knows no difference, they are just as content as they would be in the wild.
 
I fish all the time in the summer and occasionally hunt (for food). I actually think this typical 'anthropomorphic' attitude some people have stems from what oneirogenesis said about being detached from nature. Modern technologies and urban lifestyles now allow people to lead lifestyles that are more consistent with their humanistic views, while the violent and gruesome qualities of nature/life are tucked away behind facades of livestock farms and slaughterhouses. Most people these days have never even seen an animal go through the butchering process... can't blame them for being disgusted by these sorts of things - they have an incomplete idea about how it all works.

Sometimes when people try to start the whole "stop intervening with nature" argument, I just wanna tell them they might as well promote mass suicide. It doesn't matter if you are a vegetarian PETA member that wears all-organic products or not, because the world is overpopulated with human beings and changing the details will not alter the damage our presence has on the ever-changing ecosystem.

I'm well-accustomed to these debates because my GF is a partial vegetarian, haha.
 
Oops. I thought this was going to be about Erasmus and Sir Thomas More....(renaissance humanists).
 
You guys crack me up...:laugh:
I must admit, I thought this thread was going to be a rant about secular humanism at first.
 
And here, my uneducated mind thought a "humanist" was just about the same thing as an "atheist"....

Just what IS a Humanist, exactly?

But, yeah. For a creature that spends most of its life hiding out and sleeping when it's not hunting for food, you'd think that once it has a regular food supply, and therefore no longer needs to hunt to find food, that they'd be perfectly content in captivity with all their husbandry needs met. At least, that's how I look at it for my corns, boas and pythons. I don't know about any other snake species' activity levels.
 
Apparently. She won't eat any kind of flesh except fish and eggs. No logical reason why. I like to tease her and say, "oh, it must be because they can't scream while getting butchered" lol

Oo ok, that makes sence. Vegans are the ones who dont eat any meat at all or dairy products I think. Just the way you said it sounded funny haha.
 
Apparently. She won't eat any kind of flesh except fish and eggs. No logical reason why. I like to tease her and say, "oh, it must be because they can't scream while getting butchered" lol

That sounds more like a pescetarian. I mean, can you really call yourself a vegetarian if you are eating animal, any animal (last I checked fish were still an animal). I think people just think it looks better if they call themselves a vegetarian.
 
It could be, but I never read all the way through Utopia.

Sorry, couldn't think of a better word at the time of thread creation.
LOL. Thanks for being a good sport and playing along.

And Beth, the "Shore" just hasn't been the same since Deena came into the picture. And now they're saying JWoww is leaving...

I thought vegans _could_ eat fish and eggs and meat, for example, if it was free-ranging...not industrially or commercially raised/prepared...
 
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