Disappearing Pregnancy?

[Floof]

Well, this is an interesting development. It took me a couple days to get around to posting, though, so please bear with me..

I normally check in on my mice once or twice a day--at night before I go to bed and, if I have time, in the mornings before school. It works great for both the mice and my schedule, but I'm starting to rethink it...

When I checked on the mice on Thursday, two of the girls were bursting at the seams with itty bitty mouse fetuses! Cinnamon, an agouti and the most skittish of the group, looked to my untrained eye as if she would be dropping first. They had even banished the male to the toilet paper rolls outside of their nest box, and, despite this, the male was frequently running about reinforcing the nest's security and sitting guard outside the entrance in his toilet paper rolls. I refreshed their water, tossed them a couple almond treats along with their normal lab blocks, and went to bed.

I'm pretty sure I didn't check on them the next morning, but don't quote me on that. If I did, she was still pregnant when I went to school. That night, I went in to check on them again. No babies yet, though the girls had banished the boy to the toilet paper tubes outside of the nest. Finally, Cinnamon snuck out while she *thought* I wasn't looking... And she wasn't pregnant anymore! =( She had returned to her normal size--same exact size as the day she and her sister met the boy and gold girl back in early April. If I didn't know any better, I'd say she'd never been pregnant at all!

I lifted the nest box and checked for blood or left over pinky parts, but there's no evidence that she ever even gave birth... Did she manage to cannibalize an entire litter without leaving any evidence? Or did she do something weird like reabsorb the fetuses? This is definitely her first litter... I've had her since January, and she was about 6 weeks when I got her and her sister.

Luckily, the golden girl is still plenty preggers. I'm hoping it's not a cannibalism issue, and if it is, that I can confirm it and separate Cinnamon before the golden girl gives birth... Yelina, my amel corn, is due to drop eggs any day here, and I want a couple litters' worth of newborn pinkies in my freezer before those eggs hatch! =)

 

[PJ@PJCReptiles]

I am not an expert mouse breeder, but I have tried to do so a few times as well as breeding rats. From my experience, mom mice do eat their young, usually the first litter. If there is a male in the tank, mom might not feel the babies are safe and she will eat them. Or if she feels threatened by another female. It is trying. So bear with it. Keep asking, I am sure someone else here has a better answer for you than I do.

Keep plenty of fresh water and food at all times!

Good luck
PJ :wavey:

 

[Floof]

Thanks for the input, PJ. =) I do know mice cannibalize, but I would've thought they'd be a lot messier than this if that's what happened with my girl's "disappearing pregnancy."

I didn't know they might be THAT bothered by the male or other female, though, when they've been getting along so well.. It makes me wonder if I made an mistake giving them those almonds the night I noticed the pregnancies. The girls all started arguing over the almonds, and the boy didn't help a whole lot when he tried nibbling on the side and bottom of the girls' almonds while they tried to eat. I ended up tossing them 3, one for each female, but I don't know how that worked out, and now I wonder if it may've contributed to what happened!

Honestly, that almond thing was the first time I'd heard much more than the occasional, protestant squeak out of one of the mice since the first week they were together, when all of the females were annoyed beyond belief with the male constantly trying to "make babies."

Some background:

They always have food and water, though I'll sometimes go a couple days without refreshing it--the one 4 oz. bottle lasts them almost exactly 48 hours, so I usually fill it every other day. I give them fresh food daily, but they always have food in their bowl... I usually leave the leftover food in as sort of a barrier, since if the food is on the bottom of the bowl, the male covers it in bedding almost immediately. I try to keep a little chunk of cuttlebone (usually around 2x2 in.) in the cage, on top of the nest box. Sometimes there's two chunks for one reason or another. I refresh the cuttlebone once a week, when I clean the cage, or when it starts to get yucky from fecal matter and urine--whichever comes first.. Unless I just replaced it when I clean the cage, in which case the same piece goes back in post-clean.
They live in a 10 gal with a fairly large nest box ("small" igloo hide, second smallest size and fits 3 preggy girls easy), a wheel, food bowl and water bottle, and those toilet paper rolls I throw in on occasion. The nest box takes up almost one half of the aquarium, and the water bottle hangs down over it, since it's the only place I can get it at a convenient height for the mice without having to search out a completely new holder.
They get almond treats once every one or two weeks, but no more often than once a week since the boy got fat from them (he slimmed down just as fast as he fattened up, though!).
I try to interact with them daily, but Cinnamon rarely gets handled.. I can tail the other 3, but Cinnamon has to be ushered into a toilet paper tube before she'll even think about getting near my hand.
I haven't cleaned the cage out in a little while, but had been trying to do it once a week. I clean the wheel regularly, since they seem to have deemed it their "litterbox" and it gets crusted up with as much as half an inch of poop if I don't keep an eye on it... It's a solid wheel, one of the "silent spinners." Now that I think of it, I'll probably clean the cage today while I'm waiting for replies. =)

 

[claireree]

yes it sounds like she has eaten them, I have had this as well when I first started breeding mice and you think there would be blood everywhere but there usually isnt. It is not uncommon for them to eat their first litter and you just have to shrug it off to experience and hope they have better luck next time.

I must say it is usually only the odd few that do this, I have just put a new pair together due to me stopping breeding for a while whilst I used up my freezer supply first so I am hoping that they will do well with their litter. Upto now I have always left the male in as I fine they are usally good at looking after the babies when they are first born.

Like most people will say to you give them a second chance and if they do it again next time then cull them and start with a fresh pair of females.

 

[Floof]

Well, I just finished cleaning the cage and I have good news and bad news.

The good news: I think I know what happened, and the general consensus is right...

The bad news: I found evidence of cannibalism in a single piece of bloody paper towel from the nest box. That's all, just one tiny scrap of paper towel with one edge covered in dried blood.

Well, this clinches it. I'm going to give her a "second chance" because I assume she's already pregnant again, but I'm going to separate her from the colony. She's the only one who won't let me hold her, anyway, and I don't want that trait being bred into the rest of the colony when I hold back pinks. I'm going to separate her, and if she IS pregnant, gives birth, and manages not to cannibalize them, I'll let her raise up some of the litter to start a new, mostly "hands-off" colony (lol). If she cannibalizes, either Yelina or Xente will get their first "home grown" meal! ... And if she isn't pregnant, I'll either introduce her to a new male (or a hold back from the golden girl's litter, or maybe even the current male), get her pregnant, and see what happens; or euthanize her.

 

[Floof]

I should've seen it coming!!!

Well, kind of an update.

Sometime last night, the golden girl dropped a litter of 8 or 12--can't remember the exact count. By the time I checked in on her at about 7:45 AM, she'd killed all but two or three--several were lumps of skin, at least two were without heads (and one still twitching avidly). One of the survivors had only half a face--I caught her in the middle of eating it head-first. I considered this one dead, since you can't breath without a nose or mouth, and tossed the casualties. During this, I caught the male pestering the girl incessantly. He kept trying to mount her whenever she was out of the nest. In hopes that she wouldn't cannibalize the last two with the reduced stress, I moved the male to a separate container (and didn't realize until much later that he would've been better off tossed in with Cinnamon the Cannibal, since I didn't have time to figure out a water bottle or anything before I left for school). I did stop to consider just tossing them in the freezer or giving them to Cinnamon, but decided Cinnamon's milk had likely dried up and I had no use for JUST two 1-gram pinkies. Before I even left for school--about 15 minutes later, actually--I ran in to check really fast to make sure the two were still alive... One of them, which had already been injured (no skin on the back of its skull), was nothing more than a cold lump of skin and a little bit of bone. The other was still untouched, so I left it.

By the time I got home from school, the last baby was gone. All that was left was some blood in the nest. Unbelievable... I REALLY wanted her to try raising up that baby--even if her milk only lasted long enough to get it to a size I could use.. But, alas, no luck. I sort of wonder if I should've just tossed the thing in the freezer this morning and given Hansel an extra treat next feeding day, but oh well. I hope Fudge doesn't do the same thing later on...

With this new development, I decided to go ahead and put Cinnamon back with the colony. Why separate her for being a cannibal if the other girls are doing the same thing? So, my colony is 1.3 again, and I'm going to be heading up to the nearest store that *might* breed its own mice later this week to see if I can pick up a couple more experienced breeders to produce pinks for me while the current colony reestablishes itself and starts producing without cannibalizing everything.

Anyone have any ideas how I can prevent the cannibalism from happening when girl #3 pops? They ARE all first-timers, so I understand the high risk of it, but is there any way to prevent it from happening?
For example, should I separate Fudge a couple days before I expect babies, or remove the male around that time?

Is there anything I can do with their diet--add protein, etc--that will stop them from cannibalizing?
I already supply them with a constant supply of cuttlebone for extra calcium, and they always have food and water.
I feed them the Mazuri Rat&Mouse Diet from PetSmart, and they get the occasional treats of veggies (generally bits of collard green, snap pea, carrot, and squash, most of which is from the beardie's veggie stash) and nuts (almonds, peanut or cashew on the very rare occasion). Anything to add?
Since I only just remembered that we even HAVE cats, I'll start adding a bit of kitten food to the normal stuff.
I've considered giving them a bit of dog food countless times, but have always decided it was probably better for their health not to... Two of the dogs have arthritis, so all of them are on a diet extremely high in omega fatty acids, among other joint-healthy things... No exaggerating there, their food literally smells like fish! Anyway, I'm pretty sure the dogs' food would make the mice obese. Anyone think otherwise? I might crumble up bits of it in the food, anyway, on occasion, simply for the benefit of the fatty acids in the like.. Or does anyone think the dogs' food might be more detrimental?

And, more importantly, I plan to just clean the cage out when she starts really showing her pregnancy and leaving them alone--should I continue to leave them be if I catch someone cannibalizing, or should I interfere if that happens?
In your experience, is it better to let the mother cannibalize the entire litter, or remove the surviving pinks? Does removing the survivors seem to affect how quickly the female takes to motherhood the next time around, or does it do nothing at all?

Sorry for all the questions, but with today's experiences and my chosen actions, I actually HAVE questions. I'm worried that what I did may have severely affected the last pink's chance at survival, but at the same time, I'm fairly sure the mother would've gone after it, too, since she was already killing and eating the rest of the litter.

At the very least, between the mice and an extremely graphic Jr.'s and Sr.'s only "don't drink and drive" assembly this morning, I know I can handle raising and euthanizing mice... All the DOA car accident photos (all of which had in common no seat belts and drugs/alchohol) and the very vivid description of trauma procedures (everything from chest tubes to catheters WITH a visual demonstration using some local kid as a dummy!) were a million times worse than the mousie massacre this morning... Lol!!!!

 

[jimmythetiger]

You should probably keep Cinnimon separated, the golden mouse may have eaten her babies in the first place in which case you'll want to have her separate so you can find out for sure. My only other advice is to cull. More protein and calcium is always good though. I usually add cat food to pregger mouse diets, and buy cuttlebones (from the bird section) and break a piece off and give it to them. Those are good for their teeth and are rich in calcium. Good luck with your mice!

 

[Floof]

If you think the golden girl may've eaten Cinnamon's litter, then shouldn't I just remove the golden girl? Fudge is due to give birth any time now, so if I moved Cinnamon and left the golden girl and the golden girl is actually the problem, I would just end up with the golden girl eating Fudge's litter, right? I caught the golden girl in the act of cannibalizing her litter, but I can't be sure who ate Cinnamon's litter--I just assume she ate them herself. Whichever one I remove from the colony, I want to get her pregnant first to see if she'll cannibalize the litter when she's by herself... If either Cinnamon or the gold girl turn out to be consistent cannibals, she (or they) will definitely be culled.

I do the same thing with the cuttlebone... I got a pack of 5 last time I was at Petsmart, and I try to keep one or two manageable sized pieces in at all times. I gave them a bit of kitten food after posting earlier, and they love it! =) The girls kept fighting over the golden girl's piece until they figured out there was more outside of the nest, lol.

 

[medusacoils]

I am so sorry to hear that you are having trouble with your breeding colony. Sometime these things occur and unfortunately, it's hard to determine who the culprit is. Fortunately for you, you happened to catch the culprit, red handed. I would suggest euthanizing her and finding her a new home, preferably in the belly of an appropriate sized corn snake. Unfortunately, once they start cannibalizing, they "sometimes" won't stop. You can try one more little, but I wouldn't get too excited about it. She probably ate or killed the other litters as well.

My wife and I have raised thousands of rodents and on occasion, have had the difficult colony. Actually, right now, in one of our feeder colonies, we have a cannibal. In order to figure out the culprit, we will have to separate the females, just before they drop their litters and see which one is causing the problem. We usually do this by adding a divider.

The males will begin to harass the females, almost immeadiately after they give birth. That is how fast a female mouse goes through a typical gestation cycle. Sometimes a male will kill a competitive males litter, just to bring the females into cycle, faster.

Good luck

Wayne

 

[MedusaCorns]

Either she ate them or the other mother ate them for nesting spot. Very few fathers eat the young and are often good dads helping moms when she wants to leave and eat he keeps them warm. I've had more problems in the past ten years with females fighting then males.

 

[Floof]

Well, darn. I was really starting to like that little golden girl, too! I'm going to try her on one more litter, but I'll separate her from the colony for it... I'll probably move her to the "isolation cage" when Fudge starts to show--leave her with the colony as long as possible, to make sure she gets pregnant before I move her.

Killing over nesting spots? I never would've thought of that! Do you think I should add more nest boxes? They have the one big nest box, and I always thought it was a decent size to accommodate all three mothers with litters. The male certainly isn't the problem, unless the reason the golden girl was cannibalizing was due to the stress of his attempts to mate.

I'm going to try starting up a second colony this week. Probably something much larger (1.6 or so?), and I'm going to try getting some of my founding stock from a store that breeds their mice in hopes that I can get some experienced mothers. Hopefully that will work out well. =)

Thanks for the input, everyone.. It's helped me out a lot!!

 

[Buzzard]

Nesting box??? I do not use a nesting box. Every time you have to open the box (lift it up) you run the risk of scaring the mother and stressing her out(then she eats the babies ect..). I use toilet paper tubes. This gives them a place to hide if they want. They won't or havent ever built a nest inside one that I have seen. You then can see the pinkies and cull with less stress when you have to go into the cage.

If you can stager the age of the females. Like get an older female that maybe has had babies, then maybe 2 younger ones and yet a younger one. This allows for the longer lasting colony and sometimes (at least it seems) the older mothers will help out more with parential care of the pinkies. Hope this helps and good luck with the next group....

 

[claireree]

yes anything that causes less stress the better when breeding, mine new pair is currently in a old hamster cage I have which has a see through bottom so I dont have to disturb them to check for babies I just can move the cage round. It is so annoying when they do this, and 90% of the time it is due to inexperience with the mice.

My first mouse I ever brought from a pet shop was pregnant when I got her and she ate all of her babies but went onto be the best breeder I had.

 

[jimmythetiger]

I just said to separate them, it doesn't matter who you take out, lol

 

[kc261]

I had a horrible time getting my mouse colony started, but it is going really well now. Mostly it just takes patience. I still sometimes have trouble with first time moms eating their young, but usually by the 2nd litter they have figured it out. Here are a few things that have worked for me.

1) - security - I believe this is the number one thing. If your mice don't feel secure, they will eat their babies because in the wild it is better for them to recycle all those nutrients than to let a predator eat the babies. I also believe this is a big part of why raising mice gets easier after the first generation or 2. Mice that have been around you and your routine since they were born, or even better, were raised by moms who have been around you and your routine since they were born, are obviously going to feel more secure than ones you brought home from a pet store a month ago. So anything you can do to increase security is a good thing.

2) - diet - I believe that one of the many reasons that mice may eat their young is if the diet is not good enough. A good lab block is usually fine, but just to be sure I supplement a little bit with a quality dog food and black oil sunflower seeds, which increases the fat and protein in their diet. The mice prefer these to the lab blocks, so when a mom looks ready to pop, I'll give that colony a little extra seeds & dog food. I figure having tummies full of yummy treats will make the pinks less appealing.

3) - social aspects - For some reason some colonies produce tons and others don't. I think at least some of the time it may be due to the level of harmony between the individual mice. If one mouse is a bit of a bully, it might through the whole colony off. One extreme example of this is a colony I had that I eventually decided the problem was the male was such a bully he hardly let the females have enough to eat, so even though I was putting plenty of food in the enclosure, the females were still somewhat malnourished, and ate their babies every time. Sometimes when I suspect something like this may be an issue, I've had success by separating the females. Ones that ate their babies in a colony have done fine raising them by themselves.

4) - nannies - Sometimes for various reasons, I'll put an experienced mom in when I'm forming a new colony. I haven't kept detailed enough records to be sure, but it seems like those colonies have a lower rate of eating their first litters than those that were made from all new breeders. Even if the experienced mom isn't the first one to have a litter, it seems like maybe somehow she communicates (or just demonstrates) that babies are for taking care of rather than eating.

 

[carnivorouszoo]

I got lucky all my girls had babies and they lived without mishap. I think part of it was I went with older girls to start and a young male. At least one of the girls had had babies before. She happened to deliver first. I think her example helped calm the others. I also handle them alot whether there are babies or not so my coming and going only scares the one nervous girl and all she does is bite me. I'm culling her after she and another delivers their next litters so I have her pups and don't feel bad I culled a preggers girlie. If you can try to get older girls and you can easily expand by keeping daughters from the first litter or two you get. Hope that helps!

 

[claireree]

Yes I have just put another pair together with some of my more experienced mums just in case I do have mishaps with the other pair, I am very low on fuzzies and if they do eat their babies i will be in trouble.

 

[Floof]

Claireree - Good luck with the new colony! I would love to hear how things go with the new girls getting help from the experienced mothers...

Carnivorouszoo - I'd been planning to expand the current colony by holding back some daughters, actually, so I'm way ahead of you there--lol! Anyway, that's how I was planning to populate future colonies... With their offspring and maybe the occasional pet store toss in for variety in the blood line. I'm actually hoping to breed for docility and, if I can figure out a way to gauge it accurately, slower speed.. I'm not exactly the best mouse wrangler, and those dang things are just too fast. Thanks for the input, though. It's really comforting to hear first hand experience with the effects of an experienced mother in a new colony! =)

Before I forget.. Kc261, your first point, concerning security, makes me wonder if part of the golden girl's deal is not being familiar with my household. I have had Fudge and Cinnamon since January; the golden girl and the male were new additions at the beginning of April.
Also, I've since adjusted their diet--their food is now sprinkled with kitten food daily. Since you mentioned adding a bit of extra fat to the diet... Do you think extra fat is better in this situation? My dogs' food is hugely fatty, or I would have already been adding bits to the mouse food for extra protein and the like.
The social workings of the colony seem to be beyond ideal... I have yet to witness much more than petty squabbles over bits of almond and kitten food, but that's usually one of the girls getting mad at the male for trying to nibble at the other end of her piece of food while she eats. Of course, I don't check on them much more than once or twice a day, so I'm mostly going by the fact that I've never heard anything, seen any physical damage, or witnessed anything. If anything, the male seems to be an extremely helpful father-to-be: working to make the nest more secure and comfy and sleeping in toilet paper tubes instead of the nest.

Nesting box??? I do not use a nesting box. Every time you have to open the box (lift it up) you run the risk of scaring the mother and stressing her out(then she eats the babies ect..). I use toilet paper tubes. This gives them a place to hide if they want. They won't or havent ever built a nest inside one that I have seen. You then can see the pinkies and cull with less stress when you have to go into the cage.

Really? I would think no nest box would incite more stress... At least, for mice not used to being exposed. I hope to start another small colony as well as a larger one, so I'll try your method with the smaller colony, and see how they compare to the current one... I'll probably start with 1.3 inexperienced mice in a 10 gal like I did with the first colony for a fair comparison. It'll be interesting to see what the difference is...
I'll probably stick with nest boxes for the large colony-to-be, since they'll most likely be eye-level to four dogs--five dogs, if you count one standing on her hind legs.

If you can stager the age of the females. Like get an older female that maybe has had babies, then maybe 2 younger ones and yet a younger one. This allows for the longer lasting colony and sometimes (at least it seems) the older mothers will help out more with parential care of the pinkies. Hope this helps and good luck with the next group....

That's exactly what I thought would happen... Thank you all for confirming, then! Hopefully that store DOES breed their mice, in which case, I'll pick up at least one experienced female. The owners of the store are extremely helpful, so, hopefully, they won't mind parting with some of their older girls. =)

Do you think it would be safe to get a few girls from this store and then some others and, probably, the male from a different store for variety, or would I be running the risk of fights among the new colony? Specifically, the girls from the one store fighting the mice from the other...

Lol, as I'm typing, I sort of have a "plot" forming--pick up two or three experienced girls from the breeding store, and then at least that many girls and the male from the "other" store--this one doesn't breed their mice, and keeps the 10 gals they're kept in uncrowded... At any one time, they have at least 5 "female" mouse tanks, and 3 "male" mouse tanks, so I would be able to get each mouse from a separate tank if it would help reduce any fighting.

Am I right in assuming the girls from the breeding store would be less likely to start any fights if they were out numbered?
Same going for the mice from the other store, actually... I would be picking no more than one or two mice from each tank there, so those mice would probably feel outnumbered, too. Would this situation cause more or less fights?

I would get them all from the one store, but I want to diversify the bloodline a bit... Depending on your guys' answers, I may make a quick stop at a Petco or something when we go up to the city in a couple days--just a female or two to throw in the new colony if I don't get to the little stores before I can get to Petco.

If anyone has an opinion/advice on the subject, I would really appreciate your input! I want to hear all sides of it before I can be comfortable deciding on a course of action...

 

[carnivorouszoo]

Carnivorouszoo - I'm actually hoping to breed for docility and, if I can figure out a way to gauge it accurately, slower speed.. I'm not exactly the best mouse wrangler, and those dang things are just too fast. Thanks for the input, though. It's really comforting to hear first hand experience with the effects of an experienced mother in a new colony! =)

Breeding more naturally mellow mice will help them slow down the need for speed is driven by their fear. So by choosing those that 1) don't actually bite (nibbling out oc curiosity and saying you know this is MY house! is ok), 2)those that crawl into your hand on their own (showing friendliness), and 3) those that don't run when you open the cage. I did this by only keeping pups from my very mellow black and white girl. She has all of those attributes. I have handled the pups since birth and they are now at the phase where they have full fur and crawl out of the nest (hoppers?) and they do not try to get out of my hand when I pick them up. So it CAN be done! Patience will pay off so good luck!

Before I forget.. Kc261, your first point, concerning security, makes me wonder if part of the golden girl's deal is not being familiar with my household.

I would say so, most folks seem to get the mice and toss them together for breeding right away. I got mine and gave them a week to settle in before placing the male with the females. I really think this helped minimize new home stress from bothering breeding and pup rearing.

I have had Fudge and Cinnamon since January; the golden girl and the male were new additions at the beginning of April.

I don't think I would add females to an established group unless they are daughters. If I wanted more females from an outside source I would recommend setting up a whole new colony. When I need new blood I get a new male.

Also, I've since adjusted their diet--their food is now sprinkled with kitten food daily. Since you mentioned adding a bit of extra fat to the diet... Do you think extra fat is better in this situation? My dogs' food is hugely fatty, or I would have already been adding bits to the mouse food for extra protein and the like.

You don't want the protien too high or it will cause hot spots and sick mice should not be bred. Its either or cat or dog food, I do not advice the use of kitten food as the protien is WAY too high. Either regular lower end protien cat food or any dog food will do. I do notice if fat is too low the tend to look dry in the coat so dog food will probably be the better choice for you.

The social workings of the colony seem to be beyond ideal... I have yet to witness much more than petty squabbles over bits of almond and kitten food, but that's usually one of the girls getting mad at the male for trying to nibble at the other end of her piece of food while she eats.

This tells me that you have highly dominant personalities in your females. Mellow females are also submissive. You want the only mouse in the colony acting this way to be the male, but not so much that he bites you. So when you find daughters that are mellow and submissive cull out the dominant females.

Really? I would think no nest box would incite more stress... At least, for mice not used to being exposed.

Mice that are given nest boxes are best used for raising pups that will reach weanling age. And only if those will be fed right off and not kept as breeders as they will be flighty and nippy if not bitey.

[DISCLAIMER: Most of my advice comes from breeding gerbils which are very similar to fancy mice in the general dynamics except that the females are the hierarchy rather than the males and that while you can have more than one male to a female you ca not have more than one female to a group.

At any one time, they have at least 5 "female" mouse tanks, and 3 "male" mouse tanks, so I would be able to get each mouse from a separate tank if it would help reduce any fighting.

You can try it but be VERY careful the cage must be odor neutral and you will have the very best luck putting vanilla or almond oil on their rumps and noses so all smell the same then spend at least an hour watching them for problems. I really would NOT recomend the way you are going to be doing this, its actually higher risk than getting all the girls from one cage and adding the male. At least, in my experience.

I would get them all from the one store, but I want to diversify the bloodline a bit... Depending on your guys' answers, I may make a quick stop at a Petco or something when we go up to the city in a couple days--just a female or two to throw in the new colony if I don't get to the little stores before I can get to Petco.

If you want diversity get the male from one shop and the girls from the other. Produce 1 or 2 litters keeping girls, cull off the male and get a new one where you got the girls. Have a few more litters and again replace the male but from where you got the original male. Do this a few times and you'll have a VERY diverse colony. But not so diverse that you run risk of high illness at the same time not so close to cause illness.

Well, those are my thoughts and how I would do it which is what you asked for right? In NO way is my way the only way of doing things

 

[kc261]

Just to clarify, the majority of the diet I offer my mice is Mazuri 6F lab block. If you want to add a little of the dog food you give to your dogs, I would think it would be fine. I would not switch your entire diet over to it.

Nesting boxes - I do give my mice hides. They spend a lot of their time under the hides, and they usually have the babies in the hides. It seems to work for me. Sometimes, when I am checking on them and I lift up the hide, one of the mothers will panic slightly and grab a baby and run around the enclosure with it. There was only one female that seemed to take this to the next level and then start eating the babies, and I have long since eliminated her from my colony. I think the fact that every day when I check/feed/water my mice I lift the hide in every colony helps. If I only lifted it when I was checking on babies, the change in routine might freak them out more.

For getting your new mice, I don't think it matters much whether you get them all at the same place, but I would recommend getting them all on the same day. Put them all in the new enclosure at the same time, and they'll probably be too busy checking out their new surroundings to start fighting. If you bought a couple, let them get established in their new home, and then bought a couple more and tried to introduce them, you'd be much more likely to have trouble. A little squabbling as they establish a pecking order and the male tries to mate the females is normal. If there is a more serious issue, identify which one is the aggressor, and eliminate it.

Also, I would worry less about diversifying the bloodline than about getting a good bloodline. I've heard people talk about never adding new blood to their colony for over 10 years, and having no issues. If one of the stores you are going to has really high quality mice, then by getting some of your mice from another store, you will actually be weakening your bloodline.

I will also second what carnivorouszoo said... these are my thoughts, but in no way is my way the only way to successfully raise mice.