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Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake

I was talking to one of the ladies I used to teach with when I taught in public schools, about 10 years ago (we now both have our kids in the same homeschool co-op), and she mentioned that she wasn't surprised that Allidraggy liked snakes because she remembered my insistence that they let me catch and move the snake that got into our school, when the custodian wanted to kill it. Based on the way she was describing it, you'd think I'd wrestled an anaconda or relocated a cobra.

Said snake was a cute little striped garter snake. About as harmless as you can get, and if I remember correctly, probably not even 2 feet long. I used a ruler, scooped it into a shoebox, and took it a block away to a park with some wooded areas and turned it loose. Poor thing was probably terrified-and certainly much more endangered by the kids than a danger TO the kids!

---Donna
 
crotalis40741 said:
To play devil's advocate here, yes it was a shame to kill the snake. But if the person was not experienced enough to relocate the snake and would be taking a big risk of self injury or injury to children, then we should not condemn them for the act. Not everyone sees our beloved creatures as we do. We ask them to respect our feelings about them, so why can't we respect theirs? Also before someone brings it up, not all areas have a service that comes out and removes them for you. No I do not condone killing the snakes, but here if I am not around and one of the family is in possible danger from a venomous snake, I do not condemn them for killing one.
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Seriously, this guy had a kid and not a lot of options. I don't condemn him. I'd kill anything that I thought was a threat to my children. ANYTHING!

If I had this beauty on my property, I would certainly find a way to remove it. My kids (5 and 4) have never messed with a snake without first letting me know, and know a lot more about snakes than your average 5 and 4 year olds. But I would not trust them to not stumble upon it again and not do the right thing. Not a chance I would take. I'm quite certain that I would/could find the means of relocating it, but I'm a bit surprised at all the torches being brought out over a dad protecting his child. I love snakes too, but come on! Not everyone can nor should handle a venomous snake!!!!
 
gsdbecca said:
Seriously, this guy had a kid and not a lot of options. I don't condemn him. I'd kill anything that I thought was a threat to my children. ANYTHING!

If I had this beauty on my property, I would certainly find a way to remove it. My kids (5 and 4) have never messed with a snake without first letting me know, and know a lot more about snakes than your average 5 and 4 year olds. But I would not trust them to not stumble upon it again and not do the right thing. Not a chance I would take. I'm quite certain that I would/could find the means of relocating it, but I'm a bit surprised at all the torches being brought out over a dad protecting his child. I love snakes too, but come on! Not everyone can nor should handle a venomous snake!!!!
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But he wasn't protecting his child.
The snake wasn't threatening his child.
It was just there existing.

Instead of killing beautiful animals, parents really need to WATCH their toddlers and pets, and TEACH their kids what is dangerous.
Sure, he may "feel" safer after the needless mindless destruction of that animal, but if he lives in rattlesnake country, a better course of action is to be a responsible parent and watch and teach his kids!!
 
starsevol said:
But he wasn't protecting his child.
The snake wasn't threatening his child.
It was just there existing.

Instead of killing beautiful animals, parents really need to WATCH their toddlers and pets, and TEACH their kids what is dangerous.
Sure, he may "feel" safer after the needless mindless destruction of that animal, but if he lives in rattlesnake country, a better course of action is to be a responsible parent and watch and teach his kids!!
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Darn skippy. I owe you rep.
 
starsevol said:
Now being childless (happily) and living in Rhode Island (not so happily) I am probably talking out of my butt here. If I am, please let me know.

But it seems to me that if you live in rattlesnake terratory there is a good chance that you won't see all the snakes in an area. There could always be more. Now if you are a responsible pet owner, you know this and don't let them wander outdoors freely and unsupervised. Also, if you have toddlers and very young children, and are a responsible parent, you don't let them wander outdoors freely and unsupervised. Older children are capable of learning what is safe and what to stay away from so in this case, a parent should take the time to teach them.
There is no reason to kill ANYTHING.
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You are talking out of your butt. :sidestep: I don't watch my kids 100% of the time, and I don't think I'm negligent in not doing so. I do teach my kids about snakes, but I still wouldn't trust their undeveloped brains to put it into practice.

I get ya, that there is a difference between the perceived threat of a snake and the actual threat. But again, while I might not have done what this parent did, because I might not have perceived this snake just hanging out as a threat, if I perceived a threat from an animal (even two-legged), I'd do whatever was in my power to keep my kids safe.

Just my two cents. I won't argue it further....or will try not to. I respect the love of creatures you all have. I share it for the most part, but don't mess with my babies. If my mother herself came after my kids, I'd take her down! :spinner:
 
You do know that an unsupervised 4 or 5 year old is in danger from ALOT more than a snake that will announce itself? Right??
 
No matter how you spin it, a snake on your property isn't really a threat to your children. Crotalus are particularly shy, while they will certainly bite if cornered, if there's human activity in their area, they're gone. Odds of seeing that snake again were minute before it's head was cut off. The biggest bite risk was taken by killing it. And you can't kill them all.
 
When you have a 4 and a 5 year old and watch them 100% of the time, we'll talk. I have a lot of friends with kids the same age. I don't know of any of them that watch their kids 100% of the time.

I'm not particularly arguing that the snake was a threat. But really, how many people know that "crotalus are particularly shy?" How many people would know what you were speaking of when you said crotalus?

Anywho, I know I've just gotten myself on the snake-lovers bad list, but I can see this parent's perspective. :shrugs:

Now, I should go see what my kids are up to..... j/k, their dad is giving them a supervised bath! :)
 
Older generations were taught to kill snakes. No matter how much you try to educate them. My grandma is one of them. My great grandmother was another one of them. When I am at my grandma's house I try to tell her which snakes are not venomous. Like the Texas rat snakes or coachwhips or rough green snakes. Most of the time it doesn't matter. One time I got her to leave a rough green snake alone that was hanging out in her pencil cactus on her front porch. However, if it is a rattle snake there is nothing I can do to save it. I can't fault my grandma for that, it was the way she was raised. Doesn't make her an evil person.

Both my aunt and cousin were bit by baby copperheads while walking to their cars in the dark on the sidewalk of their house. Accidents do happen. They live out in the country. They have since installed bright lights that are not just motion lights. They have also gotten a flock of guinea birds to help keep the snakes down. My great grandma had a flock to help with snake population.
 
gsdbecca said:
When you have a 4 and a 5 year old and watch them 100% of the time, we'll talk. I have a lot of friends with kids the same age. I don't know of any of them that watch their kids 100% of the time.

I'm not particularly arguing that the snake was a threat. But really, how many people know that "crotalus are particularly shy?" How many people would know what you were speaking of when you said crotalus?

Anywho, I know I've just gotten myself on the snake-lovers bad list, but I can see this parent's perspective. :shrugs:

Now, I should go see what my kids are up to..... j/k, their dad is giving them a supervised bath! :)
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When I was a baby, my parents knew a couple who had a beautiful 1 year old boy. They decided to go on a picnic in a nice shady area near some trees at the local park. They looked away from their child for a second and he put a rock in his mouth and choked to death right in front of them.

I was about 10 when I heard that story, and never forgot it.
 
beautifullywild77 said:
Older generations were taught to kill snakes. No matter how much you try to educate them. My grandma is one of them. My great grandmother was another one of them. When I am at my grandma's house I try to tell her which snakes are not venomous. Like the Texas rat snakes or coachwhips or rough green snakes. Most of the time it doesn't matter. One time I got her to leave a rough green snake alone that was hanging out in her pencil cactus on her front porch. However, if it is a rattle snake there is nothing I can do to save it. I can't fault my grandma for that, it was the way she was raised. Doesn't make her an evil person.

Both my aunt and cousin were bit by baby copperheads while walking to their cars in the dark on the sidewalk of their house. Accidents do happen. They live out in the country. They have since installed bright lights that are not just motion lights. They have also gotten a flock of guinea birds to help keep the snakes down. My great grandma had a flock to help with snake population.
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What I find pretty interesting is that even though in older times people killed snakes automatically, in the Victorian era a snake was the symbol of eternal love. Prince Albert gave Queen Victoria an engagement ring in the shape of a snake.
 
gsdbecca said:
I'm not particularly arguing that the snake was a threat. But really, how many people know that "crotalus are particularly shy?"
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I can't presume how many people are familiar with their behavior. If you've been around them or talked to people who have, you'll know they typically flee when they're warm, and hold still when they're cool. But just from a numbers standpoint, they avoid the heck out of humans, or else there would be more bites. More people die of wasp stings than snakebite in this country. Which shouldn't be surprising, it's not a good survival strategy to bite things bigger than you.
gsdbecca said:
How many people would know what you were speaking of when you said crotalus?
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Hopefully, the folks on a snake forum!
gsdbecca said:
Anywho, I know I've just gotten myself on the snake-lovers bad list, but I can see this parent's perspective. :shrugs:
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I see their perspective, but it doesn't change that there is a difference between a threat and a perceived threat. My only hope is to educate people, so that a few less wild animals are needlessly slaughtered. There's no way anyone can come up with a number that would show how much "safer" they would be for killing that snake, but it's statistically insignificant. Slippers, balloons, and toaster ovens kill far more children. And forget about a swimming pool in the neighborhood!
 
My great grandmother and her 12 brothers and sisters worked in the cotton fields in Texas. My great aunt Ruby was bitten by a rattle snake when she was about 14. They didn't stop to go get medical attention either. They tied her leg off and her brother carried her to the wagon and she waited til they were done for the day. My grandma said her whole leg turned black. They killed the rattlesnakes they encountered rather than took the time to relocate, I guess, I don't know. My great grandma taught my grandma. I am not sure when in time it changed. My great grandma was born in 1912 in Texas and my grandma was born in 1933. Perhaps its in different locations or places where people grow up.
 
Honestly, the kids who worry me most where rattlers are concerned are kids like mine who have grown up watching Jeff Corwin and Steve Irwin and who consider themselves snake EXPERTS-and are likely to react to a rattlesnake with "Cool! A rattlesnake! It's rattling! That's so neat!!!" and terrify the poor thing into striking. I truly think that if I'd allowed Allidraggy to bring home any animal she wanted, no holds barred, from Repticon, we'd have a monocled cobra living in our exoterra.

Having said that, I am also the one who had a black widow spider living above my fireplace, in my house, for several months, with a toddler in the house. Since the spider scampered back into the crack if you got within several feet of her, and the only way we were able to get a good enough look to make sure that, yep, she WAS a black widow was with binoculars, we simply didn't see her as a major threat (the poison that it would have taken to kill her would have been MUCH more of a threat to my daughter and to our cats than a spider who was living near the ceiling-not to mention a threat to all the nice, completely non-venomous spiders). So, pretty obviously, my view of "venomous=dangerous" isn't quite the same as perhaps most people would think. However, the wasp nest that decided to move into our chimney...that I was willing to have removed, by whatever means necessary, because those were mean little suckers!


---Donna
 
SO this thread has gone the way of a lot of posts on here "you are wrong unless you agree with what I think". It makes one wonder which is more on the wrong side of things. As I have said in the past, I don't condone the killing. But I don't condemn others for thier beliefs either. In this life we all can't be perfect and all be on the same high moral standards of the same issues. Or is it that is what makes some folks life seem better? This is a snake site last time I looked, how about we try to educate and inform instead of the usual battery and condemnation? Take into consideration not everyone was raised in the same area and in the same way. And most of all that NOT all of the folks in a community will have the same point of view on things.
 
That's the point. We are trying to educate. Albeit, some word it better than others.

There was ZERO reason this animal needed to die. The OP was given helpful information on how to deal with these kinds of encounters in the future.
 
BloodyBaroness said:
That's the point. We are trying to educate. Albeit, some word it better than others.

There was ZERO reason this animal needed to die. The OP was given helpful information on how to deal with these kinds of encounters in the future.
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Neither one of us lives there, so ZERO is speculative. I would rather have seen the animal relocated, but is not always possible. I think is more that some want to word it better than others.
 
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