Feeder Breeders!!!

[Jrgh17]

So I *was* going to wait awhile to get my feeder colony up and running, but I managed to talk my roommate into it early. At first she hated rats, but after holding one in the store, she decided she wanted one. So I got to get my feeder colony, provided my roommate gets two babies from the first successful litter. As I figure, it's a win all around.

Male feeder breeder: Bill
He's a bit of a wimpy, but he's a sweetheart.

Female feeder breeder: Hillary
Hillary is about 4 months old, insanely hyper, and extremely affectionate. Hillary looks white in these photos, but she's actually a very light brown/tan color (except for a white stomach).

In case you haven't figured out my naming scheme yet... I plan to add a 2nd female named Monica. :grin01:

 

[Nanci]

I couldn't do it...I'd be too attached to them. I love rats.

Nanci

 

[Jrgh17]

I couldn't do it...I'd be too attached to them. I love rats.

Nanci

It's actually going to be pretty hard for me the first time...

But for feeder breeders, these guys are pretty spoiled. They have toys, wheels, balls, and (supervised) free range over my desk and the amusement it provides. So far, they're not doing a bad job of learning the "no" command, so I think we'll get along fine.

 

[Flagg]

It's actually going to be pretty hard for me the first time...

But for feeder breeders, these guys are pretty spoiled. They have toys, wheels, balls, and (supervised) free range over my desk and the amusement it provides. So far, they're not doing a bad job of learning the "no" command, so I think we'll get along fine.

I'd suggest setting up a CO2 chamber. The other methods are a bit too messy.

 

[tyflier]

I strongly recommend you take them out of the cage and get rid of the metal wheel.

The metal wheel(exactly like the one you have in there) caused a compound fracture of the hip and femur in one of my first female mice, and the cage caused my female rat to break her tail. The tail is still attached but at a very odd angle and has a semi-open wound that I need to get looked at. She'll probably lose the last inch of her tail or so. The tail just happened tonight...

Currently I have all of my mice in 10 gallon aquariums and my rats in a plastic animal travel case used for birds when traveling by airline.

I'd hate for you to learn the hard way like I did...

 

[Daeraelle]

:eek1: That's weird. I always knew not to have a metal wheel, but I kept my rats in wire cages for years when I was younger. They're in 30g long tanks right now, but since they're living in the garage and it's going to get hot soon I was going to get them a fan, leave the window open, and put them in wire cages. I guess I'll have to rethink that now. I love my snake food factories.

 

[starsevol]

I love rats too and couldn't use them as feeders.
I have 2 females that are...gasp....spayed because spaying reduces the risk of mammory and pituitary tumors. They are just pets.

<----- soft hearted wierdo here!

 

[Nanci]

When I had the snakes at the vet the other day, there was a girl with a rat, leaving, who had come in with it for a skin condition, and found out it also had mites and worms and a tumor that would need surgery...Luckily my vet does laser surgery, which is really nice for that sort of thing.

Nanci

 

[Jrgh17]

I strongly recommend you take them out of the cage and get rid of the metal wheel.

The metal wheel(exactly like the one you have in there) caused a compound fracture of the hip and femur in one of my first female mice, and the cage caused my female rat to break her tail. The tail is still attached but at a very odd angle and has a semi-open wound that I need to get looked at. She'll probably lose the last inch of her tail or so. The tail just happened tonight...

Currently I have all of my mice in 10 gallon aquariums and my rats in a plastic animal travel case used for birds when traveling by airline.

I'd hate for you to learn the hard way like I did...

Well, the metal wheel is temporary. I knew that they can cause injuries, so I'm having one of the safe plastic ones shipped to me. At the time, I figured a temp wheel was better than nothing to keep them from getting bored. (They don't really run on it, but they've been using it to play King of the Mountain on the top. Rather adorable.) That might have been a bad decision, so I'll take it out.

I actually have never heard about any dangers from wire cages before. Do you know how the injury happened? I'm not doubting you, I just ask because the wire cages were recommended to me by a local (non-feeder) rat breeder. She's insanely obsessive about her rats. When I asked her questions, she basically told me that she would have hung up on me (because I have snakes) if she wasn't worried about my rats getting the best care.

 

[Jrgh17]

I'd suggest setting up a CO2 chamber. The other methods are a bit too messy.

Yeah... CO2 might be my best option. The one time I got live from the petstore (COMPLETE MISTAKE - very hilarious), I had my boyfriend stun the mouse for me. Somehow, I don't think he'll appreciate doing it on a regular basis. :grin01:

 

[starsevol]

I too am obsessive about my rats care and I have to agree, a wire cage is best for them. Wire cages give much better ventilation which is important because rats have very delicate lungs. Ammonia fumes are really bad for them.

 

[Flagg]

Wire cages are FAR better for rats than tanks, especially tiny 10 gal tanks. Keep them in the cage, unless the bar spacing is too large for babies. If it's over 1/2" then babies could get out so you'd have to keep any litters in another enclosure.

 

[Jrgh17]

See, that's what I was told, but I'm still really interested to hear how Chris' mouse got injured.

When picking out my cage, I looked for one with small spacing (it's about 3/8). You can't really see from my pictures, but the purple plastic bottom is actually much higher than what's typical for these cages. Even Bill has to rear up to be able to see over the plastic, so I figure the babies won't really even be able to get up there until they're bigger. :shrugs:

I actually had another question: How long before they start uh... you know, 'getting friendly'? :grin01:

 

[Jrgh17]

Oh yeah, one thing I forgot: I read on another thread that it's best if the mothers are able to raise at least one or two. Is this true? It was something about being able to nurse...

Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

 

[starsevol]

I would think its best if they are allowed to raise one or 2. I have seen rats actually grieve for cagemates that have died.

 

[tyflier]

I am by NO MEANS an expert. But here is what I know happened in my house:

Frist, Jenni, my cage looks extremely similar to yours. Purple high-side plastic bottom with about 3/8" gap white wire caging. It ios the SAME cage my roomate used when he got his first rat. So here's the story---

My roomate came home with a smallish grey rat and this cage. After about 3 weeks, we heard a lot of LOUD squealing coming from his room, went in there and the rat was nowhere to be seen. When we lifted the hide, she was laying there in almost convulsive conditions, shaking and shivering. The entire length of her tail was de-gloved, and broken in SEVERAL places. We could not find the skin anywhere. We don't know how it happened, but can only assume that while she was climbing on the cage walls(which she did frequently), she must have somehow gotten her tail pinched between two of the sections of wall in the corner, where the walls are able to be taken apart for transport. Getting hung up, she must have fought HARD to get untangled, stripped and broke her tail, and went to hide. Unfortunately, her tail became severely infected, and she needed to be put down.

Fast forward a couple months...I now have the cage as I am getting 2 rats for feeder-breeders. We both(my roommate and I) assume that the incident with HIS rat was a "fluke" and shouldn't be an issue because, as you found out, MOST reputable rat breeders recommend cages over aquariums. So I put my rats in this cage and they LOVE it...climbing all over the walls and just "playing" around, enjoying themselves. I've had my rats in there for about 3 weeks or so, and late last night I heard this VIOLENT squeaking and squealing. I go into the room...no rats. So I move the hide and my male is hovering over the female towards her tail, and the female is, again, in a convulsive state. Her tail is broken badly about an inch or so from the tip. It isn't de-gloved, but there is a small wound and an extremely awkward angle...OBVIOUSLY broken.

I don't know how, I don't know why. But I know that it has happened to TWO rats at TWO diffenrent times with the same cage...which is VERY similar in appearance to the one you show in your pictures. I am not taking anymore chances. They are now in a well-ventilated plastic case with cage top. I am certainly trying to let my little girl heal, as her injury is not even close to being as viscious as my roomate's rat. But for me and my money...I won;t use those cages anymore. It's too risky, IMHO...

 

[Jrgh17]

I am by NO MEANS an expert. But here is what I know happened in my house:

Frist, Jenni, my cage looks extremely similar to yours. Purple high-side plastic bottom with about 3/8" gap white wire caging. It ios the SAME cage my roomate used when he got his first rat. So here's the story---

My roomate came home with a smallish grey rat and this cage. After about 3 weeks, we heard a lot of LOUD squealing coming from his room, went in there and the rat was nowhere to be seen. When we lifted the hide, she was laying there in almost convulsive conditions, shaking and shivering. The entire length of her tail was de-gloved, and broken in SEVERAL places. We could not find the skin anywhere. We don't know how it happened, but can only assume that while she was climbing on the cage walls(which she did frequently), she must have somehow gotten her tail pinched between two of the sections of wall in the corner, where the walls are able to be taken apart for transport. Getting hung up, she must have fought HARD to get untangled, stripped and broke her tail, and went to hide. Unfortunately, her tail became severely infected, and she needed to be put down.

Fast forward a couple months...I now have the cage as I am getting 2 rats for feeder-breeders. We both(my roommate and I) assume that the incident with HIS rat was a "fluke" and shouldn't be an issue because, as you found out, MOST reputable rat breeders recommend cages over aquariums. So I put my rats in this cage and they LOVE it...climbing all over the walls and just "playing" around, enjoying themselves. I've had my rats in there for about 3 weeks or so, and late last night I heard this VIOLENT squeaking and squealing. I go into the room...no rats. So I move the hide and my male is hovering over the female towards her tail, and the female is, again, in a convulsive state. Her tail is broken badly about an inch or so from the tip. It isn't de-gloved, but there is a small wound and an extremely awkward angle...OBVIOUSLY broken.

I don't know how, I don't know why. But I know that it has happened to TWO rats at TWO diffenrent times with the same cage...which is VERY similar in appearance to the one you show in your pictures. I am not taking anymore chances. They are now in a well-ventilated plastic case with cage top. I am certainly trying to let my little girl heal, as her injury is not even close to being as viscious as my roomate's rat. But for me and my money...I won;t use those cages anymore. It's too risky, IMHO...

Thanks for telling me. I'll definitely have to look into the possibility of getting something else for them.

 

[tyflier]

I just checked on her a little bit ago, and the last inch and change of her tail is completely dead...no feeling, no form, no bleeding...nothing. I twisted it, and she had no reaction. My roommate took a pair of scissor and clipped off the dead end, leaving only a tiny bit of "dead tail" on that will most likely fall off on it's own once healiong of the rest of the tail is complete. She still is sensitive above where we amputated, and it is still "pink" looking, indicating good circulation. There are no signs of infection, and all indications point to a proper healing, though she has lost the tip of her tail.

Maybe I should change her name to Stumpy? .

Just wanted to update you...

 

[dwilliamsmms]

I'm not sure why your rat was injured twice in a wire cage, but I agree that wire cages with rat appropriate spacing are the recommended way to keep rats healthy. A great source of rat cages is a company called Martins Cages. They're out of Pennsylvania, have a website (martinscages.com), and ship.
The wire wheel is definately not a safe thing.

I'm also a snake and rat lover. I have had pet rats for over 10 years and only feed my cornsnakes F/T mice. I wouldn't have the heart to feed rats.

I also agree that rats grieve and taking all of the babies is a bit cruel. They are almost always excellent mothers.

 

[tyflier]

I'm not sure why your rat was injured twice in a wire cage, but I agree that wire cages with rat appropriate spacing are the recommended way to keep rats healthy. A great source of rat cages is a company called Martins Cages. They're out of Pennsylvania, have a website (martinscages.com), and ship.
The wire wheel is definately not a safe thing.

I'm also a snake and rat lover. I have had pet rats for over 10 years and only feed my cornsnakes F/T mice. I wouldn't have the heart to feed rats.

I also agree that rats grieve and taking all of the babies is a bit cruel. They are almost always excellent mothers.

I don't why I had two different rats injured in the same cage either. But I know it is a rat-specific cage, and it happened to two different rats under completely different circumstances, so...

As long as you are providing appropriate ventilation, the difference is inconsequential. It's not like I have them in a feeding bin with 1/8" holes drilled for ventilation. They are in a well ventilated area, the cage is cleaned weekly or more, and I use Aspen Supreme bedding, which does an EXCELLENT job of dissipating the ammonia and absorbing liquid wates.

If you want my honest opinion...I would rather keep them in an aquarium and change the bedding more frequently, than keep them in a cage with more ventilation, and risk another injury. IMO, the risk is FAR greater than the benefits of a cage, so long as you have a full screen top and change the bedding regularly. Ammonia buildup *should* only be a problem if you don't clean your cage as often. I clean the cage every 5 days on average, so buildup of ammonia from a 1.1 colony *should* be minimal, and definitely not detrimental to their health...