feeding/substrate curiousity

[ARiley144]

So after talking to Toothless's old owner he said he fed him in viv, normally I would feed in a seperate container away from substrate however Toothless has 'told' me he was hungry on 2 seperate occasions. He flicks his tounge on my hand, head butts me, and then starts to open his mouth like 'hey just FYI i'm hungry and i'm goin to eat you now' mind you this is done in a none aggressive very casual manner. So both times I have opted to feed him in viv like his previous owner cause the last thing I want to do is to try and pick up and move a snake that just nonchalantly told me he was gonna eat me. The first time was no biggy deal cause all I had on hand was pinkies and he swallowed those up in about 2min. This time I had gotten him an adult mouse and put it on his 'plate' and left him be...came back and the silly critter had hauled it off his 'plate' and into his hide. I am not pleased on 2 levels...1 he most probably ingested aspen and 2 he made a mess that I now have to clean. He came out of his hide with aspen all over his face but wiped it all off on the glass. Half of me thinks to be concerned about him ingesting aspen and the other half thinks that he should be just fine seeing as he is 5yrs old and the previous owner told me he fed him in his viv. Has anyone had any problems with snakes ingesting aspen (they are very fine shreds) or will he be ok since he's probably done it before?

 

[Em Wright]

Just because the previous owner didn't have any problems with impaction due to feeding in the tank, doesn't mean you won't. Also, are you certain he was kept on aspen by his previous owner? It's possible he used newspaper or paper towels... even carpet.

If it were me, I'd feed the snake in a separate container where it's no longer an issue. Better to be safe than sorry. If you're afraid he's going to mistake your hand for food, wear gloves during feeding time - there's no shame in wearing gloves!

 

[Nanci]

Well- normally we don't wait for a snake to tell us it's hungry. A five year old snake would be eating every 10-14 days, at which time you would give it an adult mouse of 22-26 grams. So if he makes you nervous, remove him from his viv and put him in a feeding container, and _then_ go get the mouse and thaw it. While he is in his container you can remove his water bowl and scrub it and spot-clean poo. (Wash your hands very well if you touch poo, before you touch his mouse or water bowl).

 

[Em Wright]

(Wash your hands very well if you touch poo, before you touch his mouse or water bowl).

Do you spot clean poo with bare hands, too Nanci? Sometimes a paper towel either isn't in reach or it's just a little hard piece... For some reason it just doesn't seem gross if it's hard and it usually doesn't have a nasty odor (like dog or cat poo) so touching it with my hands doesn't bother me.

Besides... hands can be washed. :nyah:

Also a good point concerning when to feed. I hadn't actually thought to mention anything about that and was focused on "feeding on substrate bad!" instead. LOL

 

[ARiley144]

I turn a ziplock bag inside out and use it as a glove to scoop the poo and the surrounding substrate out and then turn the ziplock right side out and dispose of it...pretty nifty ;-) and he gets his water bowl scrubbed and water changed everyday. It wasn't a matter of 'waiting' for him to tell me, silly snake was gonna get fed today since he only got 2 pinkies last mon. and then the goal was to switch him to every 10 days, now it'll be 10 days from yesterday seeing as he hadn't eaten for his previous owner the day before I gotten him but informed me he was gonna use me as a snack on day 10. And he doesn't make me nervous per say...so far just on the 2 occasions he's decided to tell me he was going to eat me (very casually too, not in an aggressive manner)...its at that point that I get 'nervous' and don't want to pick him up. Actually I think that lil stunt of his is quite comical and a nice personality trait....I like the warning much better than if he just took a chomp. I was just worried about his substrate munching since he decided to pack the mouse off his plate, I knew that some ppl feed in viv including his previous owner and was more or less checking to make sure he's gonna be ok and such. I will be getting him a rubbermaid bin for his next meal and wearing purel hand sanitizer so that if he decides I'm a snack at least he won't actively try to eat me since I'll taste icky ;-)

 

[Em Wright]

I love Purell. LOVE it. GermX is crap in my opinion. It stinks, makes my skin feel weird... Purell smells good, feels good and works good. And it's what I grew up with, so that might have something to do with it. LOL

I always have hand sanitizer nearby when feeding/cleaning/handling. Never know when you might need it.

Using a ziplock bag... tsk tsk. :grin01:

 

[AliCat37]

I honestly wouldn't worry about him ingesting substrate. As long as his temps are correct anything extra that he may ingest should pass though without issue. I'd only be concerned about it if you saw him eating MASS amounts of it. One or two flakes shouldn't hurt. I had a pine snake eat quite a sizable piece of bark while eating a rat and she passed it out just fine. But it is up to you on whether or not you feed in or out of cage, I just find it easier on me and my snakes to feed in cage. I used to feed out of cage, but I have some super slow eaters (ball pythons anyone?), so feeding in the cage allows me to feed all of my snakes in a timely manner. I also feed f/t so wet mice and rats sometimes get bark stuck on them, so far I have not had any issues. I don't even know anyone who has had issues, I only ever hear about it on the internet. It's kinda one of those "boogey men in the closet" kinda issues. You hear about them but never see them. I just think like this; snakes in the wild eat off of dirt and they don't clean off their food before eating!

 

[ARiley144]

Using a ziplock bag... tsk tsk. :grin01:

Is there something I should know about ziplock bags? It seemed clean to me and quick way to throw it away without making a mess...and I'm prego so its sanitary...dr doesn't even want me to handle the snake...but that hasn't stopped me :nyah:

He escaped from old owner and was out and about for 8mo so i'm sure he has prolly eaten much worse. I will keep close watch on him though and hope everything 'comes out' ok ;-)

 

[Em Wright]

AliCat, for me it's one of those things that I have to decide what's best for the snake. Is the risk worth it for the benefit of the human? Even the slightest risk to my snakes is too much in my opinion.

The other issue that may crop up is cage aggression. A snake can get to the point where they expect every time the cage opens to get a mouse and then suddenly one day you have a snake trying to munch on your fingers. Dunno about anyone else, but I need my fingers!

I have a friend locally that runs a pet store and even he doesn't feed in the cage. He pulls the snakes out, puts them in tubs, gives them a mouse and goes to do other stuff while they're eating. He has balls, corns, boas, all kinds and usually in great quantity. If he can take the time to feed in separate containers, then I think I can, too.

If your snakes are particularly slow... start on another one. Fill up your containers with snakes, drop the mouse in (unless it's Live, I would supervise closely), and watch TV while they eat or read a book. Find something to do while you wait. I usually do feeding with my Mom so I have a little company for the slow ones.

ARiley. I just use my hands unless it's particularly fresh or nasty. Or grab a little bit of substrate and use that as "protection". For spot cleaning anyway. If I'm completely cleaning I dump, spray on the cleaner, and wipe it out with a paper towel. So I was teasing you about using a ziplock baggie!

 

[ARiley144]

Ok, I thought you were but you never know, I learn something new everyday on here so it was worth a double check lol. Yea I clean the poo right after the pooing is done...prego nose here can smell it a mile away and he's quite long and in 20gal viv so it's inevitable that he'll crawl thru it and I would prefer not to have that happen lol. And for full cleaning I do the same as you except I rinse it in the tub after the spray cleaning just to make sure I got all the chemicals out and such. And I hear ya about the finger munching....at least Toothless tells me he's gonna eat me first. I wish I could predict it so that I could have someone filming it....it really is humourous. :-D

 

[AliCat37]

The other issue that may crop up is cage aggression. A snake can get to the point where they expect every time the cage opens to get a mouse and then suddenly one day you have a snake trying to munch on your fingers. Dunno about anyone else, but I need my fingers!

I feed everyone in their cages, especially my boa. For little dudes like corns and balls it really doesn't matter. Yes, my boa thinks its munchy time half the time I reach to get him out, but at the same time, I'd rather have him associate his cage with food and not coming out! He's a total sweety once he's out. We also had a pine snake for a while who was SUPER cage aggressive, but it was a territorial thing. Once she was out she was alright, but it was hard to get her out. My boa realizes that it's not dinner time when he is touched, and I usually use a hook when he looks at my hand like its dinner. I fed my old corn outside of his cage and he was the sweetest thing. He would still whip around really fast at my hand in his cage haha.

 

[Em Wright]

Always good to double check things!

I use Natural Chemistry: Reptile Spray. It actually is for killing mites, but I could have swore the bottle said you could use it for cleaning as well, only I don't see that on there now. :awcrap: Anyway, I just let the tub air out a little bit before putting the snake back in. It's pretty expensive though, $15 for an 8oz bottle, however it lasted me almost 6 months now and I still have a small portion left.

 

[ARiley144]

Ah well after doin some reading on here I started using the same stuff I use in my kitchen....Chlorox disinfectant spray and I just make sure I rinse and wipe it out. Although someone on here told me I could use a vinegar and water mixture...but that will wait till I'm not preggers...can't stomach the smell of vinegar right now.

 

[Em Wright]

I feed everyone in their cages, especially my boa. For little dudes like corns and balls it really doesn't matter. Yes, my boa thinks its munchy time half the time I reach to get him out, but at the same time, I'd rather have him associate his cage with food and not coming out! He's a total sweety once he's out. We also had a pine snake for a while who was SUPER cage aggressive, but it was a territorial thing. Once she was out she was alright, but it was hard to get her out. My boa realizes that it's not dinner time when he is touched, and I usually use a hook when he looks at my hand like its dinner. I fed my old corn outside of his cage and he was the sweetest thing. He would still whip around really fast at my hand in his cage haha.

None of my snakes are cage aggressive. If I startle them, they rattle at me in response, but once they realize "oh hey I know that person!" then it stops.

It amazes me that you seem to think it's humorous that some of your snakes are cage aggressive... Why would you want that? What if a friend or a kid decided to get out your boa (dunno how big your boa is, but I have heard the bigger ones have a nasty bite) and got bitten? You could be facing serious charges or at the very least showing people that snakes are violent. This hurts all of us... and just because you've decided cage aggression is acceptable. Everything we do reflects upon this hobby, good or bad.

According to your signature you have four snakes... I have 30 snakes right now and I still take the time to remove them from their cages to feed. It would be so easy to heat a mouse, get a snake, put it in a tub, rinse and repeat. Then when the four are in containers read a book, do homework, watch TV, crochet a scarf, whatever until they're done. By your own admission you feed them in their cages FOR YOUR BENEFIT!

I just hope that doesn't come back to bite you in the future.

ARiley, congrats on the baby! My friend is pregnant right now and she's super sensitive to smells, too. The scent of chocolate makes her sick, poor woman!

What you're using works. I'd like to get an actual reptile safe cleaner, I could have SWORE I read on this bottle that it doubled as cleaner, but I don't see that info anymore! Maybe it was something else I was looking at. :shrug:

 

[ARiley144]

I read somewhere that corns aren't territorial creatures...so does the cage aggression stop once they realize that food has nothing to do with their viv, or was what I read incorrect?

 

[Em Wright]

Not sure, as I said, never had a cage aggressive snake.

I imagine (someone with actual experience can correct me on this) it would take time for them to learn they weren't going to get food that way anymore. I doubt any change would be immediate.

 

[jessicalb]

Neither of our snakes is cage aggressive. Neither has ever been fed in their viv, either.

 

[ARiley144]

It was just a curiousity question. Toothless isn't cage aggressive either...just his funny lil 'hey mom i'm hungry...see' thing he pulls. But any other time he just comes out of his hide to see what i'm up too....he's SO curious, I almost shoulda named him George ;-)

 

[Em Wright]

Ah well after doin some reading on here I started using the same stuff I use in my kitchen....Chlorox disinfectant spray and I just make sure I rinse and wipe it out. Although someone on here told me I could use a vinegar and water mixture...but that will wait till I'm not preggers...can't stomach the smell of vinegar right now.

Here I found you some links!

Reptile Spray
Chlorhexadine
Healthy Habitat

There's some info about the products. I've done a lot of ordering from Reptile Basics, they're great! Sorry it was just on my mind and I thought it'd be nice to actually give some info.

 

[ARiley144]

Thank-You very much! Will look into those at my local pet store to see if they have any of those products...shipping inevitably makes things more expensive, so I will look around.