Finally got my corn to eat by feeding live, is this really such a bad thing?

[xStaticSnow]

If you took my post to be inflammatory at all, you should go back and re-read it with a calm head.
You will see that I added information about people who I had dealt with in the past.
And without any prior information on the way you thaw your mice, It was safe to assume that you had been thawing the same way that everyone I have come in contact with. Due to the fact that they all had the same problems.
So, it seems as though you misunderstood my post. Because I can assure you that I have been typing with a clear head.

This was exactly the point I was trying to make before. I read all of these posts with a calm head. The fact is that no, you don't have any right to "safely assume" anything about me unless I had previously told you. You do not know me at all and just because in this one particular thread I didn't mention how I go about thawing my mice (I may of even mentioned this in another thread of mine) doesn't mean that you can equate this whole situation to me being exactly alike other individuals you have talked to, in how I do something.

It would have been much less inflammatory towards me if you had simply said something like, "make sure you are thawing your mice in warm water, and not just letting them get to room temperature."

I'm not trying to turn this thread into an argument that will continue on after the original topic has been lost, but I am frustrated with the way some people are treated here. It's common on threads, and very much so on this site in my opinion.. but I am constantly seeing that those who have obviously been posting here for quite some time sometimes develop hot heads. Constantly making assumptions, repeating information, and then getting frustrated when questions are repeatedly asked. No two questions are exactly the same and just repeating the same phrases over and over in responses is doing nothing to help in the development and encouragement of new and advancing solutions.

A thread is a place for questions and comments to be supplied, and answers, opinions, and suggestions to be facilitated. All I'm asking is for those who are reading my post, to please allow yourself to open your mind and let go of your frustrations because that is one step in making this community of snakes lovers, in which you invest so much of your time, a stronger, more efficient, and enjoyable environment for everyone.

 

[Outcast]

Attacking me is not a good way to make your point.

I agree with many others on here that say that if it is the only way to get your snake to eat, then yes feeding live is alright. I also agree that switching it over to F/T is not only A) Safer for the snake, but B) less of a hit to your pocketbook.

Again, I say, re-read my original post. And, please, point out to me where I was being inflammatory. I was telling you my experience with other people who had the same problem, and going off the lack of information you provided, I wrongfully assumed that you thawed yours out the same way. And for that I am sorry.

 

[starsevol]

Hey TPSS, I did not see you being inflamatory at all. Not one bit. I think that "static" likes to cause static. My opinion is that a person can't expect a whole community to change the way THEY want it to by prancing in here, asking a question that has been asked a zillion times before that is KNOWN to cause controversy, being very vague in saying how they do things, and then attacking a regular member who was trying to help.

I have a feeling that this static causer won't be here very long.....cause we aren't changing....

 

[starsevol]

Oh, and just another fact....Outcast does indeed have the "right" to safely assume anything he damn well pleases. People have the "right" to assume anything they bloody well want to. Who do you think you are anyway, the thought police?

 

[Lennycorn]

Well .... going from your first post..
You owned (I guessing your first snake) for a month and a half, and quote ""he is so skinny! You can distinctly see his spine along the length of his body and his jaws stick out a great deal from where his neck begins. It seems alarming to me,""
Waited a week to feed, which is a good thing. then tried three time over the next few week using different methods. quote ""Wiggled it around, brained it, slit it, left it overnight, scented it with tuna water, and then chicken broth.tried assist feeding"" And I read that he refused be cause of he when blue and shed (which is normal for some snakes) Then.. after all that accepted a small live mice.

Well, from what I gather from all that, is that you received a not so healthy snake which make me question the previous owner husbandry (who supplied you with f/t). And sound like the snake was getting stress out from the attempted feedings and going into blue, (which take longer for an older snake). And ate a live mouse in the end.

My take is that you need to works with snakes more. Be more patience when trying to feed it. It might take a more times, it might take a few feeding of stun mice, it might take take a really hot f/t with tuna juice on it.

But if you you read/hear the info on the cons on feeding live,then it's worth the try. Isn't it!!

 

[xStaticSnow]

Then your forum is a dead end. If you are unwilling to be accepting to new people who have not been around as long as you then how do you expect to have a growing and thriving site.

I wasn't specifically targeting Outcast either. he is the one who brought up the word in inflammatory in the first place. I was simply mirroring his statement for emphasis on mine. I'm sorry if my "play on words" was not clear to you.

If this is how I will continue to be treated, then yes I probably wont stick around.

To be honest I am hurt by the posts in this thread. I have not experienced this type of bullying on the site before.

Starsevol you are jumping on me for every little thing I said, and I'm sorry if you are reading into it incorrectly or negatively.

I did not come here to be bashed for asking questions, then put down for having opinions. I didn't post mt thoughts so that other members could gang up on me. I did appreciate the kind words of others who had thought to be more understanding. Initially I had only written a few sentences directed towards the whole mouse thing and it wasn't a big deal. It not has turned into something much worse and with the arrival of the last 2 posts I feel like the attitude here has turned hostile.

The actual topic on the thread appears to be dead now.. I thought the initial "debating" on here might be helpful in the end as new ideas might emerge from all the others which I had already read repeatedly on other threads. I guess that idea is garbage now though, and if you really speak for everyone else here and still think that no one will change their ways, then that's fine.

Nothing stays the same forever, especially not the sciences of life (including snakes, mice, etc)

If you are not open to learning and exploring new areas then there is no way for knowledge and care of pet snakes to be improved.

 

[xStaticSnow]

Well .... going from your first post..
You owned (I guessing your first snake) for a month and a half, and quote ""he is so skinny! You can distinctly see his spine along the length of his body and his jaws stick out a great deal from where his neck begins. It seems alarming to me,""
Waited a week to feed, which is a good thing. then tried three time over the next few week using different methods. quote ""Wiggled it around, brained it, slit it, left it overnight, scented it with tuna water, and then chicken broth.tried assist feeding"" And I read that he refused be cause of he when blue and shed (which is normal for some snakes) Then.. after all that accepted a small live mice.

Well, from what I gather from all that, is that you received a not so healthy snake which make me question the previous owner husbandry (who supplied you with f/t). And sound like the snake was getting stress out from the attempted feedings and going into blue, (which take longer for an older snake). And ate a live mouse in the end.

My take is that you need to works with snakes more. Be more patience when trying to feed it. It might take a more times, it might take a few feeding of stun mice, it might take take a really hot f/t with tuna juice on it.

But if you you read/hear the info on the cons on feeding live,then it's worth the try. Isn't it!!

What you have said makes sense. But I will need it clarified what you mean by more patients. I don't feel comfortable with him not eating for any longer. Maybe if he was a healthy weight, then yes it wouldn't do too much hard if it took a month of two before he chose to eat. But he's already underweight, and like you said, stressed. If he readily accepts a live mouse then at least he is getting some calories, and I'm not putting him through the stress of putting dead mouse after dead mouse in front of him when he doesn't want to eat it..

I feel like everyone thinks I would allow the mouse to gnaw on my snake.. This would not happen he takes the mouse immediately and I am there to prevent any bites while the mouse is being constricted.. is this being understood or just ignored?

Patients wise.. I've left the mouse overnight more than once. Just because there were three time periods when I attempted to feed doesn't mean I only used 3 frozen mice.

The first 2 I used came in a little blue box that the old owner gave me. I don't remember the brand, sorry, but I'm sure it came from a local pet shop.

The frozen ones I had were actually killed at a pet shop near by (a respectable one however, all of their animals are well taken care of and they offer the names of the breeders for their snakes, dogs, parrots, etc.) They kill the mice and freeze them in shop to feed the snakes they have for sale, you can purchase the dead mice for the same price as a live one...

 

[starsevol]

One quick question. How are you thawing the mouse out?

The reason I ask, is that most of the time I talk to someone who feeds live, they say that their snake won't eat frozen, and then I find out that they just sit the mouse out on the table and let it get to room temperature. Though 90% of the time they do not want to learn about the correct way to thaw the mouse/rat out, and decide they would rather keep feeding live and put their animals at risk...

Though I have gotten some to switch over. And once they thawed the mouse under hot water, instead of letting it come to room temperature, their snake ate it...

THIS is the post you got all snarky about. He was not inflammatory in the least!!! If you had a problem with this post, it is your issue and not any issue with this forum or the members here.
You simply are not going to tell people what to think and what to say. It ain't gonna work!!

 

[xStaticSnow]

That was no being snarky, it was being realistic and asking others not to make assumptions about me.. yes it was about his post but what I said applied to everyone.

I'm not telling anyone what to think, I'm asking others if they are willing to be more open minded. If they are not willing then that's fine, and they are also free to make assumptions and judge me all they want. But there is no need to post it here for me to read, just as there is no need for you to be throwing things into my face like this.

To be honest I have no interest in fighting about the way you think posts sound in your head or would have been said in person if we were actually having a conversation instead of typing on a computer. I wanted to learn about my snake, I got suggestions and I took the ones that I hadn't already tried into consideration. I had a post saying I was going to try stunning my mouse and trying a freshly killed mouse.

Some of the other posts here were just plain mean, and you can't convince me otherwise.

 

[Lennycorn]

I don't know how more I can clarify that for you but the fact is...You don't have much experience and the snake is underweight. This can contribute to the fact that is hard to feed it.
As I read your replies I can see your inexperience with snakes. Which is OK but try not take the easy way and say live is better for whatever because of....
Cause the truth is live is only better only when the snake will only take live.
But to me, that is not a ""fact"" that have been proven here.

You will need to read up on feeding tip and ideals. But if I were you, I would stop trying to feed it for a few weeks

Yes, stop.

Then feed it a hot slice f/t.
In a quite dim room.
When it's hungry
With out all of the fanfare.

This will take patience. But it will be the best route for the snake.

 

[starsevol]

That was no being snarky, it was being realistic and asking others not to make assumptions about me.. yes it was about his post but what I said applied to everyone.

I'm not telling anyone what to think, I'm asking others if they are willing to be more open minded. If they are not willing then that's fine, and they are also free to make assumptions and judge me all they want. But there is no need to post it here for me to read, just as there is no need for you to be throwing things into my face like this.

To be honest I have no interest in fighting about the way you think posts sound in your head or would have been said in person if we were actually having a conversation instead of typing on a computer. I wanted to learn about my snake, I got suggestions and I took the ones that I hadn't already tried into consideration. I had a post saying I was going to try stunning my mouse and trying a freshly killed mouse.

Some of the other posts here were just plain mean, and you can't convince me otherwise.

You are not a moderator. You will not tell people what assumptions they may or may not make, and what thoughts they may or may not post.
There was NO problem in the way that Aaron addressed you. He was trying to help you, for crying out loud!! I think you owe him an apology actually.

Personally I don't think ANY of the posts here were mean. I think you are too sensitive. I think you don't KNOW from mean....

 

[toxiclight]

You will not tell people what assumptions they may or may not make

You know what they say about making assumptions?

Ask questions, certainly, to clarify points.

Threads like this are the reason that I rarely if ever asked questions when I first started coming to this site. I emailed/PMd some of the people who seemed nicer or more open rather than ask in open forum and get jumped immediately with graphic photos or talked down to. There are people on this site that make it extremely difficult for newcomers to feel comfortable asking for answers.

In his first post, the OP was asking advice for an underweight, malnourished snake...he did make it clear that he fed live to get nourishment into the snake before resuming his attempts to swap it to f/t and wanted advice to see if there were other methods that he hadn't tried. (it was also fairly clear that he had done some reading, was aware of the risks, and was taking what precautions he could in the meantime) He was given some very good advice by a few people here, and attacked by others. I know I didn't appreciate the huge graphic images thrown into the thread, and yes, I would certainly feel like I was being attacked thereafter. It was unwarranted.

Yes, he may have jumped a little hard at the question about thawing (although in his response, he only asked that assumptions not be made and went on to explain how exactly he thawed/heated his mice)...but coming on the back of...fourth post in the thread with pictures, next post stating "I do however have a really really low opinion of someone who feeds live FOR NO GOOD REASON AT ALL...... "

 

[Nanci]

OP- have you posted a photo of your snake somewhere, or could you, so we can get a feel for how thin it really is?

 

[Lennycorn]

OP- have you posted a photo of your snake somewhere, or could you, so we can get a feel for how thin it really is?

Hey Nanci, here's a picture of it. Skinny???
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112819
and another
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113764

 

[airenlow]

I think it looks perfectly healthy in the second set of pics...maybe maybe a tad thin.

 

[Nanci]

I agree, Josh. I wouldn't call that snake skinny at all. OP- are you familiar with male springtime hunger strikes? We're at the tail end of the breeding season and my males that were hunger striking have only been back to feeding for a couple meals. It's possible all this refusing has something to do with that.

If you truly want to feed this snake FT or PK, I would give him a good two or three weeks to get hungry. (A healthy adult snake can easily go three or four _months_ without eating and be none the worse for it). Then I would try a FT smaller mouse, like a hopper or weanling, thawed, heated up to 102F, with fur dried by paper towel or blow dried. If he doesn't eat that, I would try a week later with a FK mouse.

 

[starsevol]

Yes, he may have jumped a little hard at the question about thawing (although in his response, he only asked that assumptions not be made and went on to explain how exactly he thawed/heated his mice)...but coming on the back of...fourth post in the thread with pictures, next post stating "I do however have a really really low opinion of someone who feeds live FOR NO GOOD REASON AT ALL...... "

Just to clarify, I firmly believe that a snake that won't eat any other way is a darn good reason to feed live. I thought I pointed that out? :shrugs:
However, if feeling compassion towards every living thing that can feel pain and fear makes me a freak, then I fly my freak flag proudly. It is your right to disagree. It is what it is....

 

[Outcast]

If you are not open to learning and exploring new areas then there is no way for knowledge and care of pet snakes to be improved.

I can tell you that I am constantly learning new things, literally every day I learn something that I did not know about animals, be it about snakes, or fish, or dogs. One of the great thing about working at Petco is that we have quite a few customers that Know much more than I do about many subjects. But, then we get some customers that, like you state, are not open to learning.
I can assure you that I am open to learning new things.

But, after reading my first post that you got extremely disrespectful about, I notice that I started it off with a question. Which in my experience in dealing with people who have had the same problem with their snakes, is a good question. It was you who decided to get upset about it.

Now, if you would be open to ideas and learning then you would learn from everyone's experiences around here, including mine. I learn from everyone's experiences, yes, even from people who are more new to snakes than I, and compared to many, if not most people on this site, I am new to snakes myself.

 

[starsevol]

I agree, Josh. I wouldn't call that snake skinny at all. OP- are you familiar with male springtime hunger strikes? We're at the tail end of the breeding season and my males that were hunger striking have only been back to feeding for a couple meals. It's possible all this refusing has something to do with that.

If you truly want to feed this snake FT or PK, I would give him a good two or three weeks to get hungry. (A healthy adult snake can easily go three or four _months_ without eating and be none the worse for it). Then I would try a FT smaller mouse, like a hopper or weanling, thawed, heated up to 102F, with fur dried by paper towel or blow dried. If he doesn't eat that, I would try a week later with a FK mouse.

Nanci, in my overheatedness I completely missed this! Great call! To the op, my males do this to me every single year, some go for months, yes months!!! I used to lose sleep over it and had to learn not to worry quite so much.

 

[Outcast]

What was I thinking!!! I didn't even think of the spring strike...
I agree, the second thread with pictures of the snake, he looks healthy to me, but what do I know. My girl was obese when I got her, so I had to put her on a diet.