DeadMouse
Hungry, hungry Hognose!
I wish I could give you that case for your birthday Nanci, of course you'd have to fill it yourself after I adopted all the hoggies that were in it :grin01:
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Hognose owners?
- Thread starter Chip
- Start date
I wish I could give you that case for your birthday Nanci, of course you'd have to fill it yourself after I adopted all the hoggies that were in it :grin01:
DeadMouse
Hungry, hungry Hognose!
Thanks for compliments!
What do you mean by having "a huge week at the pet [sic] shop"? Do you work at a pet shop or get your animals from one?
I really miss the days of more and better exotic pet stores like what we had in the 80's and 90's. It seems that these days, at least here on the west coast where I've been, there's a real drought of good pet stores. The only one that even seems to carry reptiles in my town besides the ever craptacular Petsmart and Petco chains (who shouldn't even have reptiles since they never take care of them) is a pet store in the mall that makes the majority of their money from selling the puppies and kitten in the window cages. Everything else is considered an accessory and receives less than stellar care as well. But I digress and I think everybody knows that I'm not known for brevity, so I'll just shut up now :eatpointe
Chip
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
I rented a space to open a pet shop about this time last year, officially opened Feb. 1st. I keep about 40 snakes, 25+ lizards, a couple of tortoises and other odds n' ends herps at any given time. That's about 10X the selection of any of my competition, and I'm much cheaper. But I still sell CBB male balls for $39 and maybe sell two a month, and Pet Smart goes through 4-6 a week at $119 (according to a kid who works there). It's a tough niche. Most of the serious hobbyists love my shop, but get most of their animals at shows and online. The folks new to the hobby seem to be my core "audience," but many are frustratingly more interested in expanding their collection than housing them properly. Oh, have I got stories!
It's a good gig though, for the most part. There's just an awful lot to do in a day, and I haven't taken a paycheck yet. But I've invested everything back into the store, and it's really come a long way. I forget that until I see pictures of the same room 6 months ago!
It's a good gig though, for the most part. There's just an awful lot to do in a day, and I haven't taken a paycheck yet. But I've invested everything back into the store, and it's really come a long way. I forget that until I see pictures of the same room 6 months ago!
Chip
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
Thanks, Rex! They're nothing special, but I enjoy them. They are four this year, and the females aren't nearly as big as others I've seen. I'm feeding the babies smaller meals a lot more frequently and hoping they grow larger. And my '08 albino male is off feed (again) so that's going to just be determined by how much food I can get him to accept. At this rate, he's never going to reach breeding size.
DeadMouse
Hungry, hungry Hognose!
You can call me Troy
I know what you meant to say, but to me, even the normals are anything but "normal". Which is why we probably overdosed on all the hognose morphs like we did. Had it not been for the behavioral aspects of the first normal semi-adult pair we got last year, we more than likely wouldn't have gotten to where we are today with our hognose collection!
They are by far the most personable and interesting overall of the snakes we have. That's not to say that I don't have others that I don't love equally, but hognose snakes in general just have so many odd qualities about them that really set them apart from most colubrids.And how big are we talking weight/grams wise? I had 3 females that laid for me this year, one at 200 grams, one at 250 and the other at 300+. Unfortunately, the first two were bred with a male that proved infertile this year, so all they laid were slugs. I don't attribute it to weight at all. The largest female was bred to a different male who was actually only 50 grams whereas my sterile male was over 100 grams.
Believe me, I fully understand your frustration. I have an adult albino male that showed absolutely no interest whatsoever in breeding this year despite being brumated with all the other adults. So, that really threw my hopes of producing albinos this year off.
Then we have a pair of pink pastels that we bought at the same time who were from the same clutch last year. The problem is, the female has never been a strong eater and is now the smallest hognose out of our 2007 part of the collection. Only recently has she decided to eat again after another 2 month hiatus of going off food. She's only about 36 grams whereas our male, who eats like a champ, is 82. And that's also considering that it's typically the males that often go off of food and are smaller to begin with. This one particular snake has really stressed me out this year. And not because we paid $1200 for her, but because she's my wife's favorite out of all the hognose morphs we have, and rightfully so as she really is a unique pink pastel. I swear she has some hypo in her.
Sherry (2007)
But if I've learned anything from our hognose is that patience is a virtue. I'm sure your male will go on a growth spurt when he's good and ready
Chip
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
Doh! I KNEW that, too. Mea culpa.You can call me Troy
Agreed. There are many things about them that make me wonder how they EVER survive in nature, too! If they want to eat, and it's smells like food, they just bite and hold on. There's no doubt in my mind they must bite animals wayyy too large to be a prey item in the wild. I have no doubt my '08 females would gladly latch onto an adult mouse. And then try to eat it sideways!I know what you meant to say, but to me, even the normals are anything but "normal". Which is why we probably overdosed on all the hognose morphs like we did. Had it not been for the behavioral aspects of the first normal semi-adult pair we got last year, we more than likely wouldn't have gotten to where we are today with our hognose collection!
I meant to weigh them before I put them down. I have my scales at the store, I'll remember to bring it home and let you know. FWIW, the girl Jeff Mohr beings to shows for programs is easily double their size.
Was your sterile male a normal? Is sterility more common in them than other colubrids?
Ugh, I hate to hear that. I was hoping to get my albino to breeding size by spring. I could at least prove out my females and get some hets. I'm just hoping he survives.
Wow! That girl is gorgeous!Then we have a pair of pink pastels that we bought at the same time who were from the same clutch last year. The problem is, the female has never been a strong eater and is now the smallest hognose out of our 2007 part of the collection. Only recently has she decided to eat again after another 2 month hiatus of going off food. She's only about 36 grams whereas our male, who eats like a champ, is 82. And that's also considering that it's typically the males that often go off of food and are smaller to begin with. This one particular snake has really stressed me out this year. And not because we paid $1200 for her, but because she's my wife's favorite out of all the hognose morphs we have, and rightfully so as she really is a unique pink pastel. I swear she has some hypo in her.
Sherry (2007)
But if I've learned anything from our hognose is that patience is a virtue. I'm sure your male will go on a growth spurt when he's good and ready
I sure hope so. It's been bitter cold outside and I can't find any frogs or toads to scent with. All I have at the shop are firebellies and other foreign and probably toxic species. I'm really worrying for this guy. Tuna water and all the usual tricks don't seem to phase him.
DeadMouse
Hungry, hungry Hognose!
It's all good
No doubt! I would love to see an actual video filmed of a wild western hog going after and eating a prey item. I'm sure it's got to be something truly hilarious and amazing. And the sideways thing, that just always cracks me up! One of our albino female 07's spent the better part of a half hour last week trying to eat a mouse sideways. I just want to understand the reasons why they've developed this technique.
For sure there are some exceptionally large females and males out there. I just haven't kept hognose that long to have any individual in my collection stand out apart from the 300+ gram mark. But I'm sure I'll get some really pissy female that will attain that mark and keep me on my toes
Yeah, he is a normal. Personally, I don't attribute him being sterile due to him being a hognose. I attribute it more to the fact that he does like always sleep on the warm side of his tank and he was not brumated last winter with the other adults because at the time I just didn't think he was going to be big enough to breed. But then he went into a feeding frenzy and gained 30 grams in a short period of time and that's when I decided to put him in with some of my females. He truly knew what to do but obviously was just shooting blanks. I hope next year he does regains his virility.
Well, I would rule him out unless he really looks like he's losing weight or looking like a skeleton. Again, while I fully understand your frustration, I'm sure he's in capable hands
It's just like Sherry, she's put us in a position to have to force feed her several times just to kick start her appetite. While the force feeding process is never easy nor always successful, it's at least a last resort to getting an otherwise stubborn eater to hopefully regain their appetite. But just keep monitoring his weight and use your best judgement, I'm sure he'll be fine Thanks! Like I said, that is my wife's pride and joy out of all of our hognose and for good reason. From almost all of the pictures of pink pastels I have seen and even from our male, they usually seem to wash out some becoming a real light pinkish color, but Sherry has retained a lot of red. I just hope as she gets bigger that she'll keep that red in her. Heck, I just want to see her make it to 100 grams, then I'll be really happy!
That's why we invested in a Bufo Woodhouse Toad. He's basically a pet, but he also has a purpose of being there in case we need to molest his scent glands by rubbing pinkies on him
Perhaps this might be something to think about keeping at your store. And they make really fun pets too. Out of every animal we have, we laugh at Todd the Toad the most!All the other scenting tricks have not worked for us either. I've tried tuna water, Todd the toad scenting, anole scenting, braining and other slicing and dicing techniques, the soaking in water to trick them to drink then eat trick, nothing has worked for me. The only that has worked for us, and like I said before as a last resort, has been force feeding either by hand or with a pinky pump. I've had to do this with a few snakes and fortunately for us, we've been relatively successful, if not always getting any food item down the snakes throat, but at least enough in their mouth to entice an appetite for the next feeding cycle. I hope that you don't have to go this route, but if you run out of other options, it might be the only thing that works. Good luck and keep me posted on his progress!
tricksterpup
I has nuttin to Say.
I dont have any fancy morph hoggies, just one plain old western who thinks he is het for king cobra.
But eventually i would like to explore hoggies more down the line and start producing some reds and albinos.
But eventually i would like to explore hoggies more down the line and start producing some reds and albinos.
El Jefe
Mark 16:18
Yeah...she is a big girl but I need something substantial so people can actually see it when I hold her up.
Chip
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooo!
It got down to 10 degrees last night. The store got cold, and the thermostat/heat tape worked overtime... again.
I saw the temps were 84 and 105 on the hot spot so opened the rack to cool each cage down. One rack in particular was bad. The cages were wet with evaporated water, and I saw snakes in their water dishes. I started to pull them out, one cage after the next had a melted bottom.
The flexwatt (after cutting it out):
Fortunately, every snake looked okay. Only the female hog I paid out the nose for (from Don Shores, Mitcham animal) was on her newspaper. Then upon close inspection...
as a doornail. I all but gave that girl mouth to mouth trying to revive her. Not much outside of Leighton Meester (worth a Google) showing up to my house naked could make my Christmas all better. I was getting so interested in these and hoping to work with new morphs.
What are the chances that six hatchlings could be on this tape and only the most valuable one I own being the one who cooked? Meh, don't answer that.
It got down to 10 degrees last night. The store got cold, and the thermostat/heat tape worked overtime... again.
I saw the temps were 84 and 105 on the hot spot so opened the rack to cool each cage down. One rack in particular was bad. The cages were wet with evaporated water, and I saw snakes in their water dishes. I started to pull them out, one cage after the next had a melted bottom.
The flexwatt (after cutting it out):
Fortunately, every snake looked okay. Only the female hog I paid out the nose for (from Don Shores, Mitcham animal) was on her newspaper. Then upon close inspection...
as a doornail. I all but gave that girl mouth to mouth trying to revive her. Not much outside of Leighton Meester (worth a Google) showing up to my house naked could make my Christmas all better. I was getting so interested in these and hoping to work with new morphs.
What are the chances that six hatchlings could be on this tape and only the most valuable one I own being the one who cooked? Meh, don't answer that.
Chip
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
I use a Ranco on this one, and DO run the Flexxwatt in series. This is twice I've had *one* piece of tape overheat. I've always had rooms for my herps that I kept at 75, having a room that gets hot then cold is the downfall, not the thermostat or tape.
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Old_School
Old School Colubrids
Yes, the "new" European line is what I was referring to. Actually, I do agree with you about the hype surrounding it and that there's still some work to be done to verify what exactly it is. If what I've read to be true however, Raimo Huhn has been working with these and has at least F3 or higher offspring that exhibit the trait. So, it's been tested but not sure what against. Some are now wanting to call it a paradox because the hatchlings show black speckling. This I find a big stretch, especially since it may shed off that coloration after a few sheds which nobody is yet sure of it it will or not.
Well, it doesn't matter the legality of them considering I was just naming known recessive morphs
Well, honestly, that's another one I am suspicious of. But, if the belly is lacking melanin (like the Hypos) and the offspring can exhibit the trait, then it's obviously something and I wouldn't have a problem so much with the name Green Hypo. I really need to discuss this with Chad as he seems to be the one selling these.
Yes, I did accidentally leave that one out. That's why I said I knew I was likely going to forget one or two at 1am
I didn't leave it out per se as I could have easily spent a ton of time putting forth every type of combination possible. I only listed combo's that I basically knew were already produced or in the works. Because I haven't heard or seen anything about any type of Pink Pastel, I said this I would be interested in seeing some pics of the ones you seem to know about though, I would be curious how different they are to a typical Lazik hypo if you are saying these are also called hypos.
Well, again, I said meaning only 2 people have made it publicly know that they own some, Brian Barczyk and Vin Russo (who both produced 2 each). I don't doubt that there's a possibility that there might be someone else out there that produced some, but unless that someone comes forth and can prove it, 4 is all that is currently known.
I have to agree. Based on the pictures (and photography can be a tricky and misleading thing) the supposed "hybinos" I've seen didn't look really any different than a pale albino. But that is at least the claim of the breeder ( I'm sure it is the same one you know of although I cannot currently recall their name), that their hybino is the product of a double het albino/hypo pairing. They do try and sell their hybino at least once a year on ks.
Are you talking about the Lazik line of PPA/Hypo? I've always been curious about why his line was of double recessive genetics since he doesn't mention on his site whether he himself was trying to create a PPA x Hypo line or not.
Do you have, or know of any pictures of such an animal? Again, I would love to see what one of these would look like as it's something I haven't yet come across.
Well, there's a lot of unscrupulous people out there in the world. It's just a shame that people value money over integrity and the respect of others. And there's definitely a few unsavory individuals in this trade to help keep one on his toes.
Did someone say snow? they are truly awesome.
DeadMouse
Hungry, hungry Hognose!
I'm so sorry to hear this. While it hurts to lose any animal, especially from mechanical/electrical failures, it's very unfortunate to lose such an expensive animal
Believe me, I had my share of losses last year from a space heater malfunction where I lost 4 baby South American hogs and 1 normal Western Hog that I had finally gotten to eat after a 4 month fast. While they probably didn't total the value of the snake you lost in terms of dollars, the amount of time I had spent taking care of those babies and getting that one to eat was particularly painful. I was fortunate to have caught the malfunction when I did as I had 10 other snakes in that room that were way overheated and soaking in their water bowls, including my adult pair of Albino Hogs. It could have been far more disastrous than it actually was despite my loss of 5 precious animals.
What wattage is your flexwatt? It looks like 3". If so, some 3" flexwatt runs way too much wattage (10 watts) where a malfunction like that can prove very fatal. Your best bet is to buy lower wattage flexwatt that has less tendency to overheat like that in case of a thermostat malfunction. You can actually get 6 watt 3" flexwatt which should prove much safer. It is more difficult to find, but well worth it. Also, it also might be helpful to run a secondary thermostat to control the power to the first one should there be a case of overheating. When we visited the Applegates this summer, I saw that he had such a concurrent thermostat system for just that particular kind of situation control.
Hopefully you can use this as a learning experience and find a better means to prevent this from happening again the future. Please keep us informed of any changes.
Again, my condolences for your loss. I hope all your other animals are ok after suffering from this ordeal.
Believe me, I had my share of losses last year from a space heater malfunction where I lost 4 baby South American hogs and 1 normal Western Hog that I had finally gotten to eat after a 4 month fast. While they probably didn't total the value of the snake you lost in terms of dollars, the amount of time I had spent taking care of those babies and getting that one to eat was particularly painful. I was fortunate to have caught the malfunction when I did as I had 10 other snakes in that room that were way overheated and soaking in their water bowls, including my adult pair of Albino Hogs. It could have been far more disastrous than it actually was despite my loss of 5 precious animals.
What wattage is your flexwatt? It looks like 3". If so, some 3" flexwatt runs way too much wattage (10 watts) where a malfunction like that can prove very fatal. Your best bet is to buy lower wattage flexwatt that has less tendency to overheat like that in case of a thermostat malfunction. You can actually get 6 watt 3" flexwatt which should prove much safer. It is more difficult to find, but well worth it. Also, it also might be helpful to run a secondary thermostat to control the power to the first one should there be a case of overheating. When we visited the Applegates this summer, I saw that he had such a concurrent thermostat system for just that particular kind of situation control.
Hopefully you can use this as a learning experience and find a better means to prevent this from happening again the future. Please keep us informed of any changes.
Again, my condolences for your loss. I hope all your other animals are ok after suffering from this ordeal.
Chip
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
Thanks for the condolences. I've had my share of projects where the eggs never came or hatched, but I don't think I've ever lost a well-started hatchling with plans like her. Eh, by the time its all over; that won't be the worst thing to ever happen to me! FWIW, it's 10 watt flex. I pulled 6 watt OUT after giving it a trial run in that system. I could barely feel the heat with my bare hand on it! Granted, I didn't scientifically test it; but neither of them felt hot enough to me running wide open. The 6 watt felt like a piece of unplugged heat tape that I'd held my hand to 10 seconds ago. The error is mine; I should have put these racks in a small room with a reasonably constant temperature. I put them out for display in my wide open store and I have lost control of their environments when it's sunny in the day and 10 degrees at night. This is a new one on me. I've always had snake rooms that were heated and constant in my home, racks on an open retail floor aren't working.
Oh, and all the others checked out just fine a few minutes ago! (I guess)
Oh, and all the others checked out just fine a few minutes ago!
(I guess)
DeadMouse
Hungry, hungry Hognose!
Ain't that the truth! Life is kinda funny that way, what it gives can quickly be taken away in spades. We've had so many bad things happen to us in our lives (don't worry, I won't bore you with the details :noevil
that I've learned to change my perspective on what I define as bad or unfortunate. Now, I view these events as things that were meant to happen to redirect me into another direction. Many times are the reasons I'll never for the life of me understand, but they are the things that have put me right where I am now, wherever that may be. :crazy02:Well, I guess that might be considered a problem as you were not able to ascertain the true temperature of what the 6 watt flexwatt was really putting out. It is possible that 6 watts might not put out enough heat for your setup, but unless you could actually verify that with a heat gun, it's questionable at best whether or not it would be sufficient. I believe it is a member here who had the pithy signature that stated "your hand is not a thermometer" and how right that is!
Purchasing a heat/temp gun would be the best $50+ you could spend when you really need to verify the temps of things. I use mine all the time from testing the max temps of my flexwatt/rack builds to my thawing of frozen mice, checking the cool spots in the tanks to make sure they are not too cool and even checking the temps in my incubators. It's a great gadget and a must have for anybody who is working with reptiles.
I imagine the gross fluctuations in ambient temperatures within your store can and obviously did create an unwelcome situation. It does give one something to think about though in regards to understanding that if it does get only 10 degrees, what is the ambient temperature of the cool side of your display setups and possibly the cold air your reptiles might be exposed to despite having a warm side that might get too warm which causes them to move to a cool side that is too cold. Just food for thought.
I'm really glad to hear this. I would hate to hear that you lost any more animals due to this. I'm sure if they survived this ordeal, that they'll be fine. Of all of the the animals that were heat stressed and survived from my space heater malfunction, they all did fine after a few days of recuperating. I'm sure yours will too!Oh, and all the others checked out just fine a few minutes ago!
Nanci
Alien Lover
That's what I meant. There's an article at the Herpstat site about how to set it up. The back up thermostat doesn't need to be an expensive one.
Chip
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
I think age has a lot to do with that perspective. It's not a lack of enthusiasm, it's just realizing you have no choice but to roll with things.Ain't that the truth! Life is kinda funny that way, what it gives can quickly be taken away in spades. We've had so many bad things happen to us in our lives (don't worry, I won't bore you with the details :noevil
I have (and used) a temp gun! My point was, the tape had to be inserted before the cages were assembled. I could gun it all day in open air, but that's no indicator of how it would heat the rack once in a closed environment. I guess I didn't put that clearly. IMO, an experienced hand IS a valuable tool! I've had racks of Neodeshae cages for 15 years that I can pretty much "palm and read." Of course, the location of the animals tell you a ton, too!
Oh, I use mine all the time! I gun the vivs, the 'fridge, aquariums, windowpanes, customers who aren't looking... I can't imagine not owning my lil' yella gun now! That and a cheap microscope are two things every herper should have!
I'm realizing that I have to build a reptile room. No way around it. Unfortunately, I don't have the funds now so expensive or fragile animals will have to go home with me for the winter. Also, I need to move all the heat tape from the center of the rack to a far side. That'll give a much better gradient (and more space to get away in case of overheating). I was concerned I couldn't adequately heat them, that's clearly not an issue. I'm still stumped as to why 2 parallel rows of tape out of ten overheated and the rest did not.
Yeah, they seem fine and hungry. No regurges or odd behavior. Oh, I'll check out Applegate's method you and Nanci talked about. I'm sure I'll be back with questions!