Hognose Problems

[whippet]

Not sure what to do at this point. Our female hognose Kitty is rapidly loosing weight. She has not kept down a mouse in at least two months, and has refused most of them to begin with. She has gotten down to 69 grams...as a 3 or 4 year old. She should be well over 600 grams (according to my online searches of adult weights for breeding purposes. Anyone have an adult weight for one that is way different?). uke01:
She is very skinny and it hurts to see her like this. We have gone down in size to small hoppers or even a large fuzzy mouse with the same results. She never was as plump as she should have been when we bought her really. But neither Lauren nor I had seen adults in person, now that we have we understand what sausages they should be.
She has gone to the vet. They did a fecal, no neg results. She just won't eat.

So the question is...

Is it time? Should I have her put down or should I just see how it goes and keep offering food?

 

[snakewispera snr]

Try crab paste on the food........

 

[wilomn]

Try pinks, no hair.

600g for a yearling is fat. They don't have to be that fat at that age.

Post up a pic.

 

[whippet]

Try pinks, no hair.

600g for a yearling is fat. They don't have to be that fat at that age.

Post up a pic.

Not a yearling. She is about four. Sorry for not being clear. I edited my post to not say 3/4, to now say 3 or 4.
She can't keep anything down.

 

[RobbiesCornField]

Have you been tubing Nutribac? Or maybe a pinky smoothie using Nutribac for cream? The extra fat in the pinks can't hurt. If she's eating hoppers, you can always try slit rat pinks.

 

[whippet]

Have you been tubing Nutribac? Or maybe a pinky smoothie using Nutribac for cream? The extra fat in the pinks can't hurt. If she's eating hoppers, you can always try slit rat pinks.

She eats them Robbie...but then regures by the next morning. Would that be enough time for any of the nutribac to work?

 

[Iguanagirl8662]

I'm sorry your girl isn't doing well. There could possibly be something wrong with her internally like a tumor or something that is causing her to regurge. That happened with my sisters dog. I think if you've tried all the tricks and she won't eat or can't keep the food down then it is probably time. I think I may try what Robbie recommend with the Nutribac and pinkie smoothie first to see if that helps any and if it doesn't then I'd say it's time.

I very sorry this is happening to you and my heart goes out to you and Lauren especially since I'm in the same boat.

 

[Calift]

Have you tried taking her to a vet? I hope she feels better soon!

 

[wstphal]

I am so sorry! I haven't gotten anything practical to add, but I realize this is a very painful situation because I have been there more than once with my cats. ((hugs))

Let me know if I can help, OK?

 

[Nanci]

The people here who know the most about hoggies that I can think of are Troy, DeadMouse, and Jenea, FloridaHogs. (You can also find her by Googling Jenea Wood, hognose snakes). But it really sounds more like a snake problem rather than a hoggy problem. If she can't ever keep down an appropriately-sized meal, or even a small meal, I'd guess something is wrong with her internally. I'm sorry. I'd have a hard time putting her to sleep, too. If a vet can't find anything, and if one or two hoggy experts have no advice, then I guess it's the kindest thing, rather than watching her starve.

 

[danielle]

I would not feed at all for two weeks and tube in nutribac every other day during this period. I went through this with my first corn and he eventually pulled through and kept down subsequent meals after a lot of nutribac therapy. I would also get an xray to rule out an intestinal block or tumor. Sorry you guys ar going through this but hopefully its something like a parsite and can be cleared with antibiotics

 

[DeadMouse]

Sorry to hear about your hoggie's condition, that is troubling.

Not all females will attain a weight over 600 grams, actually, I've found that they will typically be between 300-500 grams for that age although it all depends on the individual. But 69 grams for a 3-4 year old female is far too low, that's even too low for normally sized males.

I have one male that regurges every now and then and has been a poor grower unlike the others I have in his age range. This year he has been kept in a heated walk-in closet which has a consistent ambient temperature of 84 degrees and I've witnessed him regurging less. In fact, I though he had overcome his regurging as he didn't regurge for about 10 months, and then last 2 months he regurged twice. He is about 4 years old and only weighs in at 52 grams. Not the best weight for a male that age as most of my other males that age are now between 80-120 grams, but I wouldn't say he's emaciated either, he's just a small male.

Also, how long is your female? This might give us some clue as to how emaciated your female actually is. A female that is 3-4 years should probably be at least 16 inches and more preferably 2 feet. I have a couple females that are very very slow growers that are about 3 years old and are maybe only 14-16 inches and weighing in about 90 grams each despite other females of the same age and are ~2 feet and 250-300 grams. And all of these are kept in the same conditions and feeding regimens.

So that brings to mind the question of temperature too. Western Hognose are typically known to like warmer temps in the mid 80's with some keeping theirs close to 90, although again, this is variably individualistic for each animal. I say it's variable because I have the majority of my adults hogs in a room that has a consistent ambient room temp of 70-72 degrees and a warm side of about 86-88. Most of my collection rarely lays on the warm side preferring to stay near the cool side while digesting their meals. But there are a handful that do enjoy the warmer temps and can be found consistently on the warm side more often than not.

What are the temps that you are keeping yours in? Perhaps the cool side is too cool? What side is she staying on most of the time after she has eaten? Is the ambient room temp where her housing is located too cool perhaps?

Some thinking regarding hognose has been that they are consistent eaters in the wild often consuming smaller prey on a more regular basis. It is also thought that hognose tend to have a faster metabolism as well. So I guess my advice would be to maybe give her a large pinky and see if she's able to digest that or not. If so, then try feeding large pinkies every 3-4 days and see if her situation improves. If not, perhaps a trip to the Vet might be in order. Also worthy to ask is if this hognose is wild caught or not and whether or not, regardless of being wc or cb, if she's ever been fed wild toads/frogs. Hopefully that will not be the case but it's worth asking.

Good luck, I hope she pulls through all of this.

 

[El Jefe]

What was said above. I find my hoggies like small prey much more often. And as noted above, they seem to have very different growth rates...even ones out of the same clutch. Try to boost temps and go with smaller...very small....prey.

 

[whippet]

She is almost 2 feet long when stretched out along the rack. About 2 or 3 inches short. Her warm side is 87, her cool is 72. Here is a picture so you can see what I mean by thin or lanky looking.

 

[DeadMouse]

Looking at those pictures, I would have to agree that she is rather thin for that length. Females that are 2 feet should be fairly bulky, especially when in comparison to other colubrids such as corns or kings.

The temps sound fine from a purely academic idealistic but perhaps she might need it a little bit warmer as far as ambient room temperature goes.

What is the length of time from ingestion to regurgitation? Does the regurged mouse still look fairly whole or has there been any significant amount of digestion?

Not that I have any definitive answers for these questions, but all information helps to build an understanding of what might be happening.