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Hypo Ashy Corns
- Thread starter Rich Z
- Start date
Roy Munson
New member
The good thing about new mutant genes and combos is that the only people serious about buying them already know what they are regardless of the names. Whether they like the names, hate the names, or refuse to acknowledge the names, they know what they're dealing with. I don't like a lot of the trade names, but it doesn't really matter all that much to me. I much prefer "lav-blood" to "plasma", but if I see a "hypo-plasma" listed by a reputable breeder for $100, I'm buying.
In my opinion, "cinder" is pretty well established at the moment. I only like it marginally better than "ashy", and I would prefer "ember" to either, despite the possibility of "amber" confusion. I like "Z" or "Z-Morph" best, but as Austin Powers would say, that train has sailed.
In my opinion, "cinder" is pretty well established at the moment. I only like it marginally better than "ashy", and I would prefer "ember" to either, despite the possibility of "amber" confusion. I like "Z" or "Z-Morph" best, but as Austin Powers would say, that train has sailed.
Yeah I agree. Who cares what the trade name is. I'll call it a bobsled if you want me to.
Anyway if it meant that much to me, I'd still be crying myself to sleep over the fact that I was too late to the scene to suggest Royal Blood before you guys started saying plasma. LOL. It's a gorgeous snake anyway. :bowdown:
Anyway if it meant that much to me, I'd still be crying myself to sleep over the fact that I was too late to the scene to suggest Royal Blood before you guys started saying plasma. LOL. It's a gorgeous snake anyway. :bowdown:
jaxom1957
No one can own just one
The discussion began on Carol's amel cinder thread. I commented that the snake reminded me of peppermint ice cream, white with flecks of red and white candy mixed in. That is what most peppermint ice cream looks like in the USA, though some brands have both pink/white and green/white candy in them. Carol noted that not only had Serpwidgets suggested the same name, but her snake's name actually is Peppermint. When several people have looked at a morph and each was put in mind of the exact same thing, it's time to consider if that should be the accepted trade name. Carol is much less forward than her talents entitle her to be, and will defer to Rich on naming the combo morph.diamondlil said:
Bandying about suggested names is part and parcel of the process of finding a widely acceptable trade name, one that invites people to see the morph and possibly buy one. People in the UK have noted that "peppermint" has different connotations there. Fine. That doesn't preclude the name being found acceptable to the majority of corn snake breeders and hobbyists. Many in America, including myself, find the name aptly descriptive of the snake, and will probably continue to use the name unless or until another becomes widely accepted. No disrespect is meant to our British compatriots, but they don't have veto power over what American hobbyists - who do make up the majority of corn snake breeders and owners - decide to call morphs that originated here. There are several combo morph names that make me gag, but I did learn what they meant, even when I thought them inaptly applied or overtly silly. If peppermint becomes the accepted name for amel cinders, those who don't like the appelation can either continue using "amel cinder" or continue lobbying for another name.
diamondlil
Mice! They taste so nice!
Jaxom, I really would call it anything that was accepted (not that I'm likely to get the chance to call one 'mine') but I don't see why some people had to be unpleasant about it. I think over here only candy canes are minty and red and white and seaside rock is minty and usually a garish pink outside and white inside
jaxom1957
No one can own just one
I wasn't offended by anything you or Tula said, and I'll admit that some on this side of the pond, possibly even myself, have been a tad too "patriotic" in our arguments :laugh: I just wanted to summarize how the discussion began and why I and some others are eager for "peppermint" to be the accepted trade name. Since "candy cane" is already in use, I hope that peppermint will put you in mind of them and you'll come to appreciate the appelationdiamondlil said:
diamondlil
Mice! They taste so nice!
To be honest the trade names for combos either stick or they don't and as was said before anyone interested will know or find out the genetics involved. Same snake but different name wouldn't put me off!
Roy Munson
New member
Well, you could call the ones you hatch Royal Bloods. But you'd run the risk of no one knowing what you were selling. That's the problem with being too stubborn in rejecting prevailing trade names. And worse, even when people figured out what you were selling, some wouldn't buy from you thinking that you didn't know your stuff. Others may not buy because some people have a strong dislike for people making up their own names for established morphs.tom e said:
I know you were joking. Your post got me thinking; that's all.
I don't like the name because it seems too gimmicky, or something. I can't quite put my finger on it. I actually like the word. What's cooler than when the original terminator asks the pawn shop clerk for a "phased-plasma rifle in the forty watt range." :grin01: And in some ways, it makes sense to me as applied to lav-bloods:TandJ said:
1. Plasma is a blood component, so there is a connection to bloodred. Unfortunately, I think blood plasma's clear, but...
2. In video games, plasma energy weapons almost always project purple beams or bolts.
Still don't like it for a corn morph, though. :awcrap: In Europe, it seems pretty well established.
Susan
Go Ahead, Make My Day!
Great minds think alike! I've never been fond of the name "plasma" either, and I also prefer "Z Morph" over "cinder" or "ashy". "Snopal" is another one that just doesn't sound right. But you really did hit the nail on the head...if it's a morph someone really likes, they'll know it no matter what someone is calling it! If I see an ashy plasma on Rich's table in Daytona marked at $30, I'll just hand over my money, walk away calmly, and then probably faint.Roy Munson said:
Since this has been brought up here about naming the "C Anerythristic/Z/Cinder/Ashy" corn, I'll run my thought processes by you so you can see where I am coming from with that "Ashy" label.
Personally I have been calling then "C Anerythristics" since I hatched out the first ones, but it's cumbersome and not very inspiring. Now that combo genes are coming along, "*anything* C Anerythristic" is just going to get messy, much less untenable for those little deli cup labels I use. I am aware of the "Z" label as well as "Cinder", but neither appealed do me. "Z", because it is non descriptive, and "Anerythristic" is just a tongue twister to many people. Like it or not, I found my self thinking "Cinderella Corns" with the Cinder label. Beats me why, but that's just the way my brain cells treat me sometimes..... :blowhead: Just as I cannot label my Charcoal Ghost corns as "Phantoms" because that name always brings to mind a cartoon character from my childhood days who wore some funky purple leotard suit and rode on a white horse in Africa somewhere. Now if someone have named Lavender Blood Reds as "Phantoms" that probably would have worked for me.... :laugh:
There is a secondary concern about the C Anery/Z/Cinder corns being marketed by someone else that poses a problem I felt I needed to address. The examples with a very high blotch count have gotten the trumpet call of "HYBRID" attached to them (the validity of which is subject to heated debate), and by inference, all the rest of the "C Anerythristics" by association. So from not only a subjectively aesthetic reason, but a BUSINESS reason as well, I decided that perhaps a dividing line was needed from my originating stock, and the offshoot line being sold that was outcrossed to Don Soderberg's Hypo Miami line. Somewhere along the line, something apparently changed in the phenotypic expression of this alternate line. Not only considering the high blotch count, but also the as yet undetermined prevalence of the mahogany coloration I am seeing in many of the examples I am producing here. Perhaps there is another genetic influence in my line that produces those occasional mahogany examples. Perhaps that influence never got carried over into the single gene carrier I sold to another breeder. Obviously the extreme high blotch count is not present here, upstream, and as far as I know, the mahogany coloration is not present downstream. So perhaps there is a substantial enough dividing line between the two lines to warrant divergent labels. :shrugs:
Push come to shove, I tend to call the animals I produce here that are new (whether genetically of just from selective breeding drifting), with whatever comes to mind, mostly for internal references. "Silver Queens", for instance, was a rather whimsical name I came up with to refer to this line internally, and really had no intention of marketing them that way. But the name just grew on me and next thing I knew it became something more or less "official".
As for the name "Ashy", well it just seemed the most appropriate of all the names I could think of, for a couple of reasons. Primarily the name gelled from my memories of chasing Ashy Geckos down in the keys in my younger days, and it just seemed appropriate that a corn snake originating from the habitat where Ashy Geckos are found, and in many respects being very similar in coloration, just seemed to strike a chord with me. Coincidentally enough, Ashy Geckos are also found with both a mahogany coloration as well as a more grayish type. So the name seemed fitting from several different angles.
So that's it in a nutshell. I'm not claiming that anyone else needs to accept this name, and really have no intentions of arguing about it with anyone. If 20 people want to pick 20 names to call this new cultivar, then so be it. Worse things have happened......
Personally I have been calling then "C Anerythristics" since I hatched out the first ones, but it's cumbersome and not very inspiring. Now that combo genes are coming along, "*anything* C Anerythristic" is just going to get messy, much less untenable for those little deli cup labels I use.
I am aware of the "Z" label as well as "Cinder", but neither appealed do me. "Z", because it is non descriptive, and "Anerythristic" is just a tongue twister to many people. Like it or not, I found my self thinking "Cinderella Corns" with the Cinder label. Beats me why, but that's just the way my brain cells treat me sometimes..... :blowhead: Just as I cannot label my Charcoal Ghost corns as "Phantoms" because that name always brings to mind a cartoon character from my childhood days who wore some funky purple leotard suit and rode on a white horse in Africa somewhere. Now if someone have named Lavender Blood Reds as "Phantoms" that probably would have worked for me.... :laugh: There is a secondary concern about the C Anery/Z/Cinder corns being marketed by someone else that poses a problem I felt I needed to address. The examples with a very high blotch count have gotten the trumpet call of "HYBRID" attached to them (the validity of which is subject to heated debate), and by inference, all the rest of the "C Anerythristics" by association. So from not only a subjectively aesthetic reason, but a BUSINESS reason as well, I decided that perhaps a dividing line was needed from my originating stock, and the offshoot line being sold that was outcrossed to Don Soderberg's Hypo Miami line. Somewhere along the line, something apparently changed in the phenotypic expression of this alternate line. Not only considering the high blotch count, but also the as yet undetermined prevalence of the mahogany coloration I am seeing in many of the examples I am producing here. Perhaps there is another genetic influence in my line that produces those occasional mahogany examples. Perhaps that influence never got carried over into the single gene carrier I sold to another breeder. Obviously the extreme high blotch count is not present here, upstream, and as far as I know, the mahogany coloration is not present downstream. So perhaps there is a substantial enough dividing line between the two lines to warrant divergent labels. :shrugs:
Push come to shove, I tend to call the animals I produce here that are new (whether genetically of just from selective breeding drifting), with whatever comes to mind, mostly for internal references. "Silver Queens", for instance, was a rather whimsical name I came up with to refer to this line internally, and really had no intention of marketing them that way. But the name just grew on me and next thing I knew it became something more or less "official".
As for the name "Ashy", well it just seemed the most appropriate of all the names I could think of, for a couple of reasons. Primarily the name gelled from my memories of chasing Ashy Geckos down in the keys in my younger days, and it just seemed appropriate that a corn snake originating from the habitat where Ashy Geckos are found, and in many respects being very similar in coloration, just seemed to strike a chord with me. Coincidentally enough, Ashy Geckos are also found with both a mahogany coloration as well as a more grayish type. So the name seemed fitting from several different angles.
So that's it in a nutshell. I'm not claiming that anyone else needs to accept this name, and really have no intentions of arguing about it with anyone. If 20 people want to pick 20 names to call this new cultivar, then so be it. Worse things have happened......
Cat_Eyed_Lady
New member
:-offtopic just slightly ... Rich, I kinda put this here for you. I have a question about the mahogany coloring plus the extra number of saddles. My question is this: Did that ever happen with your candy canes? Or in their background? I ask because I bred one of the male candys I got from you to my female (anery?) and I have now some little Ultramel looking babies but they have mahogany saddles and lotssss of them. They are simply gorgious but I am abit clueless as to what to call them. (I have pic of a baby and the parents (thought the female was a granite) posted here in the breeder forum. If you could give me any ideas, it sure would be appreciated, thanks Or anyone else too, please?
Or anyone else too, please?
Cat_Eyed_Lady said::-offtopic just slightly ... Rich, I kinda put this here for you. I have a question about the mahogany coloring plus the extra number of saddles. My question is this: Did that ever happen with your candy canes? Or in their background? I ask because I bred one of the male candys I got from you to my female (anery?) and I have now some little Ultramel looking babies but they have mahogany saddles and lotssss of them. They are simply gorgious but I am abit clueless as to what to call them. (I have pic of a baby and the parents (thought the female was a granite) posted here in the breeder forum. If you could give me any ideas, it sure would be appreciated, thanks
Link? Save me the time to search for it......
No, never got a high saddle count from Candy Canes. Matter of fact, I can't recall any of my lines producing something exceptional in blotch count. I've gotten some early lines of Miami Phase (early 1980s) that had very small dorsal blotches, but the ground color gaps between them were very wide, therefore the saddle count itself was not unusual.
Actually if I WANTED to produce a high saddle count corn snake (60+), I'm not sure I could come up with a reasonable way to go about it. Even going the hybridization route, what would you use? :shrugs:
Cat_Eyed_Lady
New member
http://cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53361
this baby has just over 40 saddles... next out looks exactly the same way. I am thrilled because I think they are beautiful. Thanks for getting back to me Rich
this baby has just over 40 saddles... next out looks exactly the same way. I am thrilled because I think they are beautiful. Thanks for getting back to me Rich
Actually, 40 saddles is not all that unusual. I think many of the Miami phase on down through the Keys would find that as being typical. And I have seen some up in New Jersey that had that high of a saddle count. I think it's only when you get over a count of 60 or more that it becomes more rare.
toyah
Snakes in designer genes
Joejr14 said:
It certainly doesn't, but it doesn't give you the right to be rather rude when people tell you how the name seems very bizzare to the people who happen to live outside of the US.
Thanks for the explanation, Rich. I guess that solves some of it - if you'd prefer people used Ashy to distinguish your snakes from the Cinder lines, then I guess it's only polite to refer to snakes you produce as Ashy rather than Cinder ...
carol
Down with the sickness
Unfortunately I can't clear up the confusion on why some develop mahogany and some don't. However I can tell you I am producing both types as well. Some mature to have color at the base of the saddle and some get the color through out. Also, most of mine have a normal saddle count as well. Almost all of them have a saddle count of around 40. I just have a few odd balls that popped out and then everyone seemed to get on the band wagon that Cinders have high saddle count. Actually I have narrowed it down to which male paired with which females will produce the high saddle count and then even when I pair them right only about 1 in 4 of the Cinder hatchilngs from that clutch will have the high count. These high counts are rare, how it came to cross over to the idea that all Cinders have it is beyond me. There is always the new morph is a hybrid mob that is just waiting for something to put on a stake. Since my het Amel Cinder male that produces the high saddle count has had fertility problems since my heat spike last year, we may not see anymore until F2's from my high count males. I really don't want to breed them to their mothers, I'd rather outcross and wait to see if it seems recessive or what.
My comment on the name game, Morph Z was my favorite. However the problem with Morph Z and Anery C is that you just can't search on them. If someone wanted to find out more about these corns or find a photo, a search would only turn up matches to the word "Anery" or "Morph". I waited for sometime for Rich to tag them as something but when I started selling some last year I just asked around on suggestions and opinions and my favorite from those were Ember and Cinder. I though Ember was just to close to Amber and so there you go, Cinder. I'm quite used to using the name now, I still call them Z's at home once in awhile. Ashy doesn't roll of the tounge for me and makes me think of a disorder that would cause flakey skin. So of course the kind of snake it makes me picture is undesireable. :shrugs:
Actually I have narrowed it down to which male paired with which females will produce the high saddle count and then even when I pair them right only about 1 in 4 of the Cinder hatchilngs from that clutch will have the high count. These high counts are rare, how it came to cross over to the idea that all Cinders have it is beyond me. There is always the new morph is a hybrid mob that is just waiting for something to put on a stake. Since my het Amel Cinder male that produces the high saddle count has had fertility problems since my heat spike last year, we may not see anymore until F2's from my high count males. I really don't want to breed them to their mothers, I'd rather outcross and wait to see if it seems recessive or what.My comment on the name game, Morph Z was my favorite. However the problem with Morph Z and Anery C is that you just can't search on them. If someone wanted to find out more about these corns or find a photo, a search would only turn up matches to the word "Anery" or "Morph". I waited for sometime for Rich to tag them as something but when I started selling some last year I just asked around on suggestions and opinions and my favorite from those were Ember and Cinder. I though Ember was just to close to Amber and so there you go, Cinder. I'm quite used to using the name now, I still call them Z's at home once in awhile. Ashy doesn't roll of the tounge for me and makes me think of a disorder that would cause flakey skin. So of course the kind of snake it makes me picture is undesireable. :shrugs:
Well first off I don't care one bit what anyone calls these snakes, as long as I (and others) can identify them. Now that that's over with beautiful snakes Rich!!!!!
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
And congrats on the surprise. I know you have all these crazy, expensive things over there, but it's great to see those popping up!
And if you ever change your mind about selling (and bring the price down by a few factors of 10) then I'll take em! :grin01:
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
And congrats on the surprise. I know you have all these crazy, expensive things over there, but it's great to see those popping up!
And if you ever change your mind about selling (and bring the price down by a few factors of 10) then I'll take em! :grin01:
