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I need a pep talk

i'm not parroting what i've read on this forum. i've seen what it can do, i've seen gravid female corns and gravid ball pythons that have died because they became egg bound. one male+one female=eggs! it may or may not happen, but it can. and why risk that?
and when they get stressed they will refuse to eat. cohabitation can cause stress.
my friend made that mistake before...he kept two corns together for a bit...about 3 weeks. they came to him together...and i couldnt figure out why they refused to eat...then i read a book on corns and found out that he was making a major mistake by keeping them together! i helped him separate them out and a few days later they ate no problem!
and you said so in your other thread, you cant even scrape together $45 to afford one setup that you saw....that concerns me.

just as it would concern me if someone asked to adopt one of my fosters but could not afford to take it to a vet for its puppy shots or to be fixed. money is an issue when it comes to caring for these guys. and when i hear that, i don't consider them for adoption.
 
I have come to the decision she doesn't really want honest, well informed, information on how to take care of her snakes.

If she did. She would have said whe was going to get another viv. And if she couldn't afford another viv.... well she could have asked around or told the people she took em from to ask around for another.

Either way she has been wrong in the way she's wanting and willing to work this situation out
 
Ugh..I am done with this forum. This will be my last post. As for the quote about different opinions not being wrong, I absolutely agree with that and I am glad that it was brought up. Opinions that are not the same as my own are NOT wrong, and I think there are a lot of you on this forum that would benefit from that advice. The fact that you guys attack anyone with a different opinion really says a lot about the group. For example..tyflier posted something about 'cooing' to the snakes. And there were at least two posters that basically told him he was and idiot for suggesting such a thing because snakes do not have ears. And when rocky racoon posted on my cohabitation thread that it may be ok to leave the snakes together, you flamed him and told him and insulted him until he quit posting on the thread. This forum sucks because of that reason...if someone comes along that does not conform to your way of snake keeping you insult them and ridicule them and then make nasty comments like 'I have come to the decision she doesn't really want honest, well informed, information on how to take care of her snakes.' Do you think that is productive? I have been trying my best to get information and learn from this site, but this thread is a great example of how it is just not working. Did I ask for any advice about cohabitation? No. What are the MAJORITY of these replys regarding? Cohabitation.

And for the record Snakemom, I DID say I was going to get another vivarium in my COHABITATION THREAD. The reason I did not mention in this thread is because I WAS NOT ASKING FOR INFORMATION ABOUT COHABITATION.

Happy snake keeping...
 
Well, that takes care of that. What we really needed was a picture of the one vivarium with a stick-on thermometer clearly visible...
 
ugh no kidding.

i admit i talk to my snakes but i really dont expect them to "hear" me or anything. they respond to touch, vibrations, and scent. if you are nervous or afraid they will sense it.

she means well, but geez... :twoguns:
 
but what are you going to do with the snakes if you leave the forum that ok :wavey: but you still need to care for them and i hope you do whats the best for your snakes
 
Listen, guys. There is an entire thread on co-habitation from TaraRose. She has already gotten a tremendous amount of input and advice regarding cohabbing her snakes, and affording their care, and how is she gonna pay for this or that, and all the other stuff. There is no reason to drag it into this thread, as well. I understand that everyone has passionate opinions on the subject, and I understand why. But if you take the time to read the other thread on cohabitation, you will see where she points out that she does indeed plan on seperating the snakes just as soon as she possibly can. Isn't that all that can be asked?

Aside from that, there are literally hundreds of snake keepers around the world that ARE successful at co-habbing cornsnakes. It DOES happen with success and is, in fact, an accepted form of husbandry in other countries and even THIS country in zoos and reptariums. I don't think anyone should be chastised for exploring ALL avenues of husbandry, not just the one most widely accepted on this forum. If it can be done successfully, and with minimal stress on the animals, that should be enough said. Let her do the research on co-habitation, and decide which is better for her and the snakes. Other people do it. There's s no reason that she CAN'T take the necessary steps to successfully co-hab. It may not be recommended, but it is NOT impossible. This young lady is doing what she can with what she's got, and she is doing everything in her power to ensure a happy and healthy life for these animals. Give her a break, for cripe's sake.

The topic of THIS discussion is how she can handle the snakes with minimal stress on HER and the SNAKES. Shouldn't that be what is discussed? If you have an opinion on their cohabitation, go to that thread, and post your opinion. It does seem to be a bit of a "witch trial" here. There is a bit of "gangpiling" on this poor girl, and frankly, I see no reason for it. The topic has been discussed, and is being discussed, already in another thread. Why does everyone need to jump on her about AGAIN in here... :shrugs: :shrugs:
 
Tyger9791 said:
ugh no kidding.

i admit i talk to my snakes but i really dont expect them to "hear" me or anything. they respond to touch, vibrations, and scent. if you are nervous or afraid they will sense it.

she means well, but geez... :twoguns:
Click to expand...

Read the other topic. There is a scientific study on the ability of snakes to hear sound AS sound and to interpret it for what it is. Not all old knowledge is current, and just because it has been accepted for many years that snakes can't hear, does not make it necessarily true. With new research comes new information.

On top of that, the act of talking to snakes and cooing to them in a soothing voice is for the benefit of the keeper more than the snake. Just like the act of KEEPING snakes, and displaying snakes, and handling snakes, and breeding snakes, and ALL other aspects of snake husbandry. It is for OUR benefit more than theirs, and that is why I recommended it.

And for the record...snakes respond to a whole lot more stimulation than what you listed. Just like any other animals, our ability to comprehend their level of perception is limited by our understanding of those perceptions. We have NO IDEA how or what snakes can "hear" and respond to. It simply hasn't been exhaustively researched to the point that it can be determined that they absolutely cannot hear. There is current research and debate about, and there probably will be for along time. Until the day a snake looks at you and says definitively whether or not they can hear you, it is ALL conjecture and theory, no matter how widely accepted it may be...
 
I'd rep you if I could Tyflier. All this thread was about was someone trying to overcome their fears to be able to handle the snakes comfortably. Another new member driven away. Someone who was giving some snakes in need of a new home a second chance. The snakes weren't even sexed, and may have been two females that could have been cohabitated successfully. I don't co-hab, but many people do so with no problems, particularly in Europe, on the continent. All she wanted was some support
 
And stupid as it may sound to some, when my ratsnake was biting the hell out of me, I used to talk to him constantly in a soothing voice. Whether it was for MY benefit, to calm MY fears, it worked for me.
 
Good points, tyflier. there is a bulk of research to be done, the keeping of snakes and other reptiles as pets is fairly "new"....i just listed a few senses, not all that they are capable of. They are unique animals, that is why i have them. And there is so much to learn from these creatures.
And yes, Tara was trying, but we all have our opinions and our experiences...and this is an open forum. she got upset when people shared their opinions or advice or experiences. i'm against cohabbing, especially if they are adults and you are unsure of the sex. thats my view. and yes in the other thread she had said she had planned to separate them, but even she was not sure if she could afford to. i was just trying to give her inexpensive options. you do not have to go out and buy an expensive glass tank and all the fancy decor and such....and then she went back and forth as to whether she was going to give one away or not. :shrugs:

ok now lets all hold hands and sing Kumbayah! :grin01: just kidding!!! this is not a forum where you wear your heart on your sleeve. :cheers:
 
diamondlil said:
And stupid as it may sound to some, when my ratsnake was biting the hell out of me, I used to talk to him constantly in a soothing voice. Whether it was for MY benefit, to calm MY fears, it worked for me.
Click to expand...

i do the same thing! i talk to them or to myself...i have to admit when i see my boa go into strike pose i say "easy boy, easy...." whatever works to calm your nerves or fears or whatever. i swear they do sense fear or when they have the upper hand, if you're stressed, they get stressed.
it's best to move slow and take it easy, take your time. sudden moves will usually cause them to strike.
 
Tyger, my heart used to be hammering! because I wore gloves he couldn't hurt me, but I used to shake afterwards. He's a good boy now though, I wasn't going to let him beat me!
 
Tyger--

I understand the opinions on cohabitation, and, in fact, I agree with you in that it shouldn't be done.

But the reality is, MOST of the "opinions" expressed about cohabbing in this thread were more than simply opinions. They came across as attacks. It came across as insulting and demeaning to someone who is trying her best. And it also came across that not cohabbing is the ONLY way to d this hobby successfully, and it simply isn't true.

And BECAUSE of the perceived attitudes in these responses, we have lost another new member of the forum. Simply because her opinion was different than other opinions, there were a few people that seemed to gang up on her about it, and attack the manner in which she was choosing to care for HER snakes. All she wanted was an opinion on EVERY avenue of care...not just one. And she was persecuted for that. And that sucks, because, to be honest, anyone who is researching so completely the care of snake husbandry deserves FAR more credit than she was given. Simply because she wanted to research EVERY available opinion, rather than merely the most popular, she was persecuted. And to be completely honest, she SHOULD have been commended for such completeness in her research. NOT ridiculed or persecuted.

Now, I'm not saying that you, specifically, participated in these "attacks". But some people did. If you go back and re-read the responses, you can "hear" the anger in some of these people's "voices" through their typing. It's uncalled for, and it is really sad, that so many are unwilling to accept that their ARE different ways to accomplish the same goals, and that their way is not the ONLY right way to do it...
 
oh yeah it's hard at first, especially with the big guys. my friend had a red tail boa and man, some days he would be grumpy. i got nailed by him one day right on my hand and thumb, it bled like crazy. after that, i would be super cautious around him. i would not even attempt to handle him without thick gloves on. and after that, a corn snake bite felt like NOTHING compared to that red tails bite!
 
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tyflier again.

I totally agree with you. She _just_ got the snakes, what, last Friday? She already knew that co-habitation was generally frowned upon, and was exploring her options from setting up another viv to even giving up one of the snakes- but I thought her issue was more like having _room_ for another set up- not enough money. Honestly, these snakes, for better or probably worse, have been living together their entire lives. Although optimally she would immediately get one set up in another viv- is it _really_ going to make a difference if they stay together another month or whatever it takes her to prepare another viv??? We don't all have $$$ immediately at our disposal- some of us have to plan things out- even little $100 amounts.

I feel badly that she got driven out of here.

Nanci
 
Tyger9791 said:
oh yeah it's hard at first, especially with the big guys. my friend had a red tail boa and man, some days he would be grumpy. i got nailed by him one day right on my hand and thumb, it bled like crazy. after that, i would be super cautious around him. i would not even attempt to handle him without thick gloves on. and after that, a corn snake bite felt like NOTHING compared to that red tails bite!
Click to expand...

hehe...I got tagged by a red tail once. Definately NOT a pleasant experience. I haven't been bitten by a cornsnake, yet, but after the red tail experience...I'm really not the least bit worried. Red tails have some mighty large teeth, and their bites are not only very bloody...they can be extremely painful.

FWIW...my getting bitten was completely my fault and purely the mistake of a new snake handler. But it certainly kept me on guard everytime I went near that red tail again...
 
I agree, snakes can definitely hear even though they have no ears or ear drums. They do have an inner ear and sound sensitive cells like other reptiles.

According to the Smithsonian Answer Book : Snakes, snakes hear best in the 150 - 600 Hz range with a peak response at 300 Hz.

Aside from what the experts say I know first hand that snakes can hear from an experience I had with my little snake. She was climbing the wall of her tank with her tail wrapped around the humidity meter stretching her head towards the lid. It was dark in the room and she was lit by a moonlight bulb. I called out to her in a fairly loud voice "Cara Corn".

What happened next blew me away as she stopped and turned her head around, as if looking over her shoulder, and looked right at me. Not only did she hear it but she knew what direction it came from.

Of course she came down and slithered straight into her hide and I felt like a boob for scaring her.
 
Nanci said:
I totally agree with you. She _just_ got the snakes, what, last Friday? She already knew that co-habitation was generally frowned upon, and was exploring her options from setting up another viv to even giving up one of the snakes- but I thought her issue was more like having _room_ for another set up- not enough money. Honestly, these snakes, for better or probably worse, have been living together their entire lives. Although optimally she would immediately get one set up in another viv- is it _really_ going to make a difference if they stay together another month or whatever it takes her to prepare another viv??? We don't all have $$$ immediately at our disposal- some of us have to plan things out- even little $100 amounts.

I feel badly that she got driven out of here.

Nanci
Click to expand...

Actually, if you read the thread closely, most of the "attacks" weren't at Tara at all, but at another member, who didn't seem to get it at all.

As for what's the matter if it's another month...well, considering the fact that members who are purposely breeding their stock are having orgys all over...well, like they tell teens, it only takes one time. Yup, one month could make all the difference in the world. And I believe it was just last month that we had a new member who lost a female due to it being egg-bound and she decided to let nature take its course.

People don't have to agree with me, it's no biggie. I don't throw a fit and announce I'm leaving because I don't get the opinion I want. Personally, I'll admit that I found myself a little less patient with TaraRose simply because she was a Vet Tech. They, of all people, should know what happens when you put a male and female together.

Most of the rescue folks I know also know when to say no if they don't have the means or the room to support another animal. I can't imagine living in a one room apt with two big birds... they can be really loud. I mean really loud:)

I hope she'll realize that this is a great place to get information and be back. Most of the time, people who announce they are leaving do. It's the ones that quietly slip away in the night that don't.
 
Weebonilass said:
Personally, I'll admit that I found myself a little less patient with TaraRose simply because she was a Vet Tech. They, of all people, should know what happens when you put a male and female together.
Click to expand...

LOL! Well it's true. If you put two females together, though some things may "happen," no unwanted offspring are produced. And I know this from personal experience, I'm not just parroting what I've been told. :grin01:
 
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