Idea!

[Susan]

(portion of post deleted for space sake)...Now I'm just not sure of my future on this site, and feel like some of those in charge have been expressing their views in such a manor that I don't feel like a contributors membership would become the helpful tool that it once was.

I'm curious...what makes you think that "those in charge" have ANY say in what can and cannot be said anywhere on this forum? The owner of this site, Rich Zuchowski, is the only lawmaker here. The moderators only patrol the forum and uphold his rules. And believe it or not, the moderators are actually human beings with thoughts and opinions all their own that have absolutely NOTHING to do with their moderating duties. They also have every right to express those views here, just like any other member.

You and others don't like the political threads. That's fine. You've been told not to read them. However, others actually enjoy them and have every right to create and post in them. We actually give a darn about what happens in this great country of ours because, believe it or not, what happens WILL affect each and every one of us. Those of you not interested in politics can stay away from those threads (which really aren't that many when you consider how many are posted in the General Chit-Chat forum alone) as that is your right. The rest of us will continue to post and fight for you so you may continue to HAVE that right.

 

[KJUN]

so I don't see why there are so many new threads of the same old same.

Because nobody wants the last word to be something they disagree with....lol. The best way to end a discussion is to not participate...but nobody wants to do that. (Before you say anything, I know I could end some of it by not participating - and I have stopped posting in ones that no longer interest me leaving whoever wants it to "have the last word", but this avenue doesn't apply to anyone (like me) not really caring that they keep going on and on. This method only works for those that WANT all such talk to end.

I think it's fair to point out, and might really determine the future success of this site overall.

Over-moderation is what has reduced practically ever other snake forum of any size that's been around. Realize that you are really still a newbie (fact - not insult). Those of us that have been using online reptile forums for well over a decade have seen the same cycles over and over. Heavy moderation tends to KILL user activity rather quickly. User posting is what makes it grow. Plus, look at the ads on this site. They care about hits to a site - not as much what the hits are about. If the political threads increase hits, that increases revenue, and that keeps the site up and available. It isn't the $25 membership that pays all of the bills, and not all heavy users even pay that voluntary membership fee.

Something has to pay for this site - and if it is political threads helping, then SO BE IT!

Additionally, post counts are seasonal. Posts, posters, and new members joining is tied to what is going on in the snake world at that time. Plus, when the economy is slow, there are fewer sales...and that means fewer questions and fewer NEW keepers with questions. This site is driven by cycles in the outside world.

... and the responses are limited to a page, maybe two, but anything political, especially controversial, ends up being 10-20 pages long.

Seems like the users then are voting on which threads interest them the most, doesn't it? Hmmmm, I've seen the site moderator post more replies on the political threads than on the artwork threads, too. I respect your opinion when you say "let's stick with cornsnakes," but I'm not sure you are really in the majority here. Plus, many posts you start aren't about cornsnakes specifically, so I don't know really what to say.

I have been here long enough to know that this constant spread of politicking wasn't always so common, and it was a much more inviting site before.

Actually, there was some pretty strong George Bush bashing. I know there was one difference and I suspect there is a second one. First, it didn't get so heated because, it SEEMS to me, that we didn't follow Gorge Bush like he was a savior. We'd bash the policies we disagreed with, too. There wasn't the two sides saying one is ALWAYS right and the other is ALWAYS wrong. Our opinions - like America - are more strongly divided (in extremes) with the new president. Many of us that voted for Bush twice could agree with criticism of his policies - or at least understand the other side's point better. I believe the "blind" following is what causes such a dichotomy of feelings. ...and that drives the increased heated debate.

So, the first thing that I really believe is different is that now people tend to support the current administration without thinking as often that "maybe it could be wrong." The second on is just my suspicion. Maybe some people didn't see that as a problem - or even as evident - because they AGREED with the attacks on Bush. In other words, political arguments, to some people, are OK as long as the gist agrees with their thoughts. It only becomes I problem when they disagree with the thread content. Just maybe..... To go back to the bashing of the previous administration, I did NOT like it. I wasn't saying it was killing the site or it HAD to stop. I just posted when I wanted and ignored the rest. That's all I do now, so there is no difference.

With all that said, I KNOW I've said more than once, "This is a dang cornsnake site. Why not leave it just to that and drop all this other crap?" I've had the same thoughts as you. However, I recognize that is a silly thought as long as I am a participant in any non-cornsnake related thread. I'm I'm part of the problem - and I enjoy lots of the OT threads - then I can't complain even a little bit about the direction of the thread.

 

[Hypancistrus]

What's with all the whining lately? Did I miss the memo?

Lori, the memo was sent out, but you were excluded because you're such a nice person. We thought it would upset you and end the nice-ness.

Too true, Kathy. I have learned quite a few things from the political threads. I also learned that I'm not as "Right Winged" as I thought... although obviously MUCH further right than some.

I, too, have learned a great deal, including (thanks to the lovely Kathy) that there is a reason why I never seem to be able to choose between Democrat and Republican... I need door 3!! Incidentally-- just sent out my party change form the other day! Woot!

 

[LBoz]

Lori, the memo was sent out, but you were excluded because you're such a nice person. We thought it would upset you and end the nice-ness.

Now THAT made me LOL, Lauren! If there happened to be a shred of "niceness" left in me, the Vampire game on FB helped destroy it. You know what we do with whiners over there? We gang-fang them!!

It's not that I'm trying to complain, and I completely understand general chit chat's purpose, and my ability to look away. I however feel less involved in this site with each passing day, and can't help but associate it with all of the political stuff. I don't see nearly as many new members posting as I use to, and can now easily identify and predict a large number of peoples political perspectives, and have yet to learn many new things about people.

I beg to differ here, Michael. Being one of the authors of the WIR, I see even MORE new posters than when I first joined.

I think it's fair to point out, and might really determine the future success of this site overall. I can handle debates, and have had some great ones in the past, but think that I'm nearing the point where the negative is outweighing the positive.

You are definitely entitled to your opinions (yay for freedom!) but I would bet my life that you are in the minority. You've been here for roughly six months. Some of these people have been here for years. For many of us, this isn't just a snake board, it's a community...even a family, if you will. These people bend over backward to help their fellow friends here. I've never seen anything like it, and I would bet a kidney that the people who HAVE forged these friendships will stay long after you've decided to take your ball and go home because you don't like the content.

A couple months ago I was excited to become a contributing member, and the outpouring of initiative towards the reptile ban bills really made me feel like I would be doing my part by becoming a contributing member. Now I'm just not sure of my future on this site, and feel like some of those in charge have been expressing their views in such a manor that I don't feel like a contributors membership would become the helpful tool that it once was.

Again, totally your choice. Keep in mind that as with anything, you're going to get as much out of it as you're willing to invest...and that doesn't just mean financial investment. I always laugh when I read things like "the people in charge." As if they're supposed to be less human than the rest of us? Because their name appears in green they should blow sunshine up our hineys regardless of their own opinions? Those "people in charge" put aside their real lives to volunteer on this board, keeping it running smoothly, dealing with the constant whining that someone's feelings were hurt or someone used a naughty word. To you, they're "people in charge." To a large majority of us, they're friends.

I could be totally wrong, and might be the only one who feels this way. But it is the way I feel none the less, and I have been here long enough to know that this constant spread of politicking wasn't always so common, and it was a much more inviting site before.

It might seem like I'm picking on you, but since you brought up this thread, I'm addressing you specifically. You've not even been here long enough to go through one variable season of snake keeping to see how things change throughout the year. In early spring, it was all about matings, eggs and hatchlings. As the breeding times end and brumation begins, you'll see the conversations change. Then the cycle will repeat itself.

No one is keeping you here, and no one will ask you to leave. It's up to you to find your place of comfort. You're not forced to read the political threads any more than you're forced to pay to participate in this site. I repeat, what you get out of this site is equally dependent on what you invest. Don't expect the rest of us to change just to make you feel warm and fuzzy.


Ok, Kuda-bear...how do you like me now??

 

[Roy Munson]

LOL @ "gang-fang"

 

[bitsy]

I have to say that I come here just for the Corn Snakes. I therefore rarely read the political, religious, ethical, moral etc. discussions that take place here.

However, I don't feel put-upon or excluded. I don't feel that the forum is no longer welcoming to me. If other people want to use this board to discuss issues that are important to them, then they have a perfect right to do so and long may that continue. It isn't being forced down my throat - the Corn Snake sections are as busy and interesting/informative as ever.

If political (and other non-Corn) discussions contribute to the overall life of the board, then long may they continue. It's just that you won't see me there too often! ;-)

I need to edit my own input for myself, and not expect the world around me to edit itself for my convenience. It's like they say about offensive TV programmes - if you don't like what you see, change the channel or switch it off. In this case, all you need to do is switch to another section of the board.

 

[Maize411]

yea but look at it this way..If the mods were to create a sub forum for political conversations..then what would be next?? Football season is coming soon..so what..suddenly sports would need a sub forum? If things start to go that way..we're going to have tons of sub forums under one main forum that could just cover it all..General Chit Chat was made for that exact reason..to save space and time, and not have to worry about mini sub forums for every little topic that someone just doesn't like to read about..

just my .02 cents...

 

[kathylove]

Great attitude, bitsy! If you are not into anything other than the corns, there are certainly LOTS of choices in threads, as you have found out! And you can even find lots of other herp topics - even mud turtles, haha!. You have discovered that you can take exactly what you like from this site, and have been able to ignore what does not interest you. And who knows - there may come a time when you decide you are also interested in politics or other non-herp threads. If so, we will be waiting for you, lol! That (to me) is what freedom of choice is all about.

...For many of us, this isn't just a snake board, it's a community...even a family, if you will...

EXACTLY! When members of my family, or even friends (who all keep herps of one type or another) come to visit me, very often we spend most of the day talking about everything from child raising and education to politics or religion, or any number of things. Herps are often a very small part of the conversation.

Actually, I would like to see more political threads from non-US citizens, whether it has to do with the US, another country, or general international politics. If it was strictly local stuff from another country, I obviously wouldn't have a lot to say. But if it involved international goings on that might involve many countries, then I think the perspectives of non-US citizens (who read and watch non-US media and talk to non-US friends) could be helpful in my own understanding of international relations.

As for our domestic situation, consider that many of us may be truly alarmed at the changes we have seen in the past years or decades. For those who are at least 40 or 50, we may have noted changes that those younger have only been able to read about. Some of us may be comfortable with those changes, but many are not. I feel it is a legitimate pursuit to try to explain our feelings to others, and to try to influence their future political feelings / votes through discussion. And I would rather hold those discussions here, with my family, than in some political forum with strangers.

I think I would like Obama as a person, and I think he is an inspirational speaker - a welcome change from Bush. But I did not agree with many of the Bush policies, and certainly don't agree with many of the present administration policies, either. It is my right (and even obligation, in my opinion) to try to convince you that I am right. And it is your right to try to convince me that YOU are correct. Probably neither of us will succeed, but it COULD happen, lol!

However, it is probably best for you to follow bitsys (no apostrophe key - sorry!) example, and just ignore the general chit chat forum altogether, or at least the political threads. And to also realize that there may come a day when you happily participate in them, and are glad they are here so you can chat with your CS family about these subjects.

 

[starsevol]

Now THAT made me LOL, Lauren! If there happened to be a shred of "niceness" left in me, the Vampire game on FB helped destroy it. You know what we do with whiners over there? We gang-fang them!!


I beg to differ here, Michael. Being one of the authors of the WIR, I see even MORE new posters than when I first joined.


You are definitely entitled to your opinions (yay for freedom!) but I would bet my life that you are in the minority. You've been here for roughly six months. Some of these people have been here for years. For many of us, this isn't just a snake board, it's a community...even a family, if you will. These people bend over backward to help their fellow friends here. I've never seen anything like it, and I would bet a kidney that the people who HAVE forged these friendships will stay long after you've decided to take your ball and go home because you don't like the content.


Again, totally your choice. Keep in mind that as with anything, you're going to get as much out of it as you're willing to invest...and that doesn't just mean financial investment. I always laugh when I read things like "the people in charge." As if they're supposed to be less human than the rest of us? Because their name appears in green they should blow sunshine up our hineys regardless of their own opinions? Those "people in charge" put aside their real lives to volunteer on this board, keeping it running smoothly, dealing with the constant whining that someone's feelings were hurt or someone used a naughty word. To you, they're "people in charge." To a large majority of us, they're friends.



It might seem like I'm picking on you, but since you brought up this thread, I'm addressing you specifically. You've not even been here long enough to go through one variable season of snake keeping to see how things change throughout the year. In early spring, it was all about matings, eggs and hatchlings. As the breeding times end and brumation begins, you'll see the conversations change. Then the cycle will repeat itself.

No one is keeping you here, and no one will ask you to leave. It's up to you to find your place of comfort. You're not forced to read the political threads any more than you're forced to pay to participate in this site. I repeat, what you get out of this site is equally dependent on what you invest. Don't expect the rest of us to change just to make you feel warm and fuzzy.


Ok, Kuda-bear...how do you like me now??

I agree, this forum is amazing. And it is a "family"...I have seen people here bend over backwards to help other members here...
One member was forced to rehome her cat, she really had no choice. The cat was older and set in her ways, and might even had to be put to sleep,,and this member was beside herself...another member stepped right in and adopted this cat, and gave her THE perfect home.

Another member deseperately sought a home for a dog that she couldn't keep. It was not "her" dog, but she had fallen in love with him. However, she had too many dogs of her own and could not save him. Another member stepped up and gave the dog a home.

And yet still another member had to rehome her collection. She was going to lose the pets she had loved and taken care of forever....A member on here has taken them all in, and will send them back to her when she can take them back.

And last fall, I had a tragedy. One of my beloved snakes was impaled by spikes that was embedded in a mouse. The spikes were from a part of the mouse's cage. It was a freak accident, and I rushed my boy to the vet. Despite a hefty vet bill and 6 weeks of doing everything I could to save my boy, I ended up losing him. A few members on here (one wanted to remain a secret but I know darn well who she is, and I love her dearly), not only sent me a new baby in the morph of my boy, but also sent me a wonderful female for him....and paid for the shipping....

And that was only within the past year. There are other stories like this that play out in this forum all the time. I LOVE the people who reside here and my greatest nightmare is this forum ever ending.....

 

[kathylove]

...Football season is coming soon..so what..suddenly sports would need a sub forum?...

Haha! I HATE sports - pretty much ALL sports! I find them EXTREMELY boring and a waste of time and money (spectator sports, that is. I think it is valuable for those interested to actually PLAY sports). And I know nothing about them. But you all can go ahead and discuss them - I don't really mind. It will be a very rare thing that I participate (except maybe to comment that a child of a member is cute in his uniform!). But I think you will be able to carry on without my sage sports advice, lol!

 

[starsevol]

Oh, and I forgot another miracle this forum performed this year.

The members on here helped to transform a 15 year old TOTAL poophead into someone who may not be perfect....but anyone who just met him would have absolutely NO IDEA of his former poophead status!

And believe me, I can hold a grudge virtually forever....and these days I find myself looking forward to what this guy has to say..../

 

[Emily1188]

That would be a great idea!

:roflmao: :roflmao:

 

[Ricky87]

Because nobody wants the last word to be something they disagree with....lol.

So true!. I guess that's why Panda's have become so popular. Their randomness mixed with their adorable nature has the power to sanitize even the most foul of threads...pretty amazing actually!!!.

Oh, and I forgot another miracle this forum performed this year.

The members on here helped to transform a 15 year old TOTAL poophead into someone who may not be perfect....but anyone who just met him would have absolutely NO IDEA of his former poophead status!

And believe me, I can hold a grudge virtually forever....and these days I find myself looking forward to what this guy has to say..../

Not quite water to whine, but as long as you haven't screwed him up too badly I can't object!.

 

[Michael823]

I hear what everyone is saying, and I don't want to sound like I'm begrudging this site. I don't expect the political threads to disappear, nor do I want that to happen. I like getting involved in them for the most part, and there have been some really good ones. KJUN made some really good points, and I wasn't here for the Bush stuff, so maybe it's just a means of leveling the playing field.
I just see the Corn Snake market crash and proverbial "political threads" being one in the same. I go nowhere else to discuss reptiles, and have no friends to discuss reptiles with. This was the only place for that, and it was the best. I feel like Walter does about his sales when I post anything non political, there is little to no response. I have posted my fair share under the political threads too, and am not making a fuss about the moderators being involved. I like to learn about the intricate meanings of bills, and policies, because I am generally not great at understanding that type of stuff. It's the gloomy Armageddon type philosophies, and fear mongering that I don't understand.
It's related in every way to the economy in general, nobody trusts the chickens with their heads cut off (not an insult).
As a breeder I wouldn't focus on the dying industry, because that has no chance of increasing revenue. As an anti Obama critic I wouldn't focus on the dying country, as it has no chance of increasing hope. I am very much less strict on my way of thinking than I once was, and have been enlightened to the point where some of my political ideology has changed through threads on this site. I want to see more thinkers, and less people spelling doom. I don't even feel involved in the political stuff anymore, and it's not because I just don't agree with others opinions. It's because I feel no positive platform to join in from, and the political discussion is much more black and white than it once was. "Either you agree or you don't", and I sometimes fall in the middle, but am cut short by the personal banter.

 

[Hypancistrus]

You have discovered that you can take exactly what you like from this site, and have been able to ignore what does not interest you.

Hey! That sounds like... life. Weird........

Actually, I would like to see more political threads from non-US citizens, whether it has to do with the US, another country, or general international politics. If it was strictly local stuff from another country, I obviously wouldn't have a lot to say. But if it involved international goings on that might involve many countries, then I think the perspectives of non-US citizens (who read and watch non-US media and talk to non-US friends) could be helpful in my own understanding of international relations.

Agreed. I learn a lot of interesting things from international members, if they dare to post! SnakewisperaSr I know has mentioned disucssions of British politics... I for one like to learn and will read most anything. If it's international, so much the better!