Is it my place, or no?

[Maligator]

A girl I work with approached me a few weeks ago about her non-feeding ball python, knowing I had snakes. I was more than happy to answer her questions, give her tips, and wish her luck on getting her guy to feed. A week after - no success. So I started asking her the questions. I asked what the temps were like, if she was feeding live or f/t, what the bedding was like, what the humidity was, if her two snakes had separate tanks, if he was approaching a shed (which turned to 'do you know how to recognize an approaching shed?') when the last time he ate... the list went on as I realized this girl had NO CLUE as to what her pets need or require.

I personally find it inexcusable. She is 20 years old. She has the internet. There is NO reason she couldn't look up care sheets/join forums/do some kind of research on the needs of a snake before she bought two ball pythons from her friend. So part of me wants to really drill into her about being so irresponsible and putting not just her non-feeding snake's life on the line, but her other one, too.

But. I'm nervous that if I yell at her now, she won't let me help her with these snakes. I gave her the option to let Sheldon and I try to get the snake feeding and she seems open to the idea. We're waiting for him to come out of blue/shed before we move him; and on Sunday we're going to go to our pet store and get the proper substrate/lights (and I'm hoping I can convince her to get the proper tank). The snakes are on rodent bedding right now; I have no idea what lighting she's using because she can't describe it and her non-feeder is in an arboreal vivarium. They have been feeding on live their entire lives (from what I gather they are between two and three and a half feet) and one of them has been refusing since before Thanksgiving.

How would you handle this situation? I'm trying to think of a way to politely (I DO have to work with her six days out of every week) convince her to give me or sell me the snakes, despite the fact that I know one of them may never eat, despite the fact that I don't actually WANT two more ball python, and despite the fact that I don't want to spend money on animals that weren't my responsibility in the first place. But I can't stand knowing every single time that I see her that she has two snakes in her house being mistreated by her lack of knowledge and her laziness to acquire it. The worst part is she is SO nonchalant about the entire situation after she initially asked me about nonfeeding, like it isn't worth her worry or concern. Should I try and get these snakes from her? Or just try to help as much as I can and hope she takes my advice this time? Shrugging it off as 'not my problem' isn't an option I can handle.

 

[wstphal]

Do you know anyone who WOULD take good care of these BPs if you rehab them? If you do, then my recommendation would be to try to get them away from her & rehab them & rehome them once rehabbed. Do you have the time & patience to put up with 2 more snakes that are BPs & "duty rescues" rather than well-loved? Then get them & keep them. If you can't or won't take them on as a project, transient or permanent, I won't criticize you, but then the right think to do is give as much advice & input as you possibly can & hope & pray she takes it. If that's your route, be very nice to her because if you hurt her feelings she is likely to stop listening to your advice. Good luck!

 

[Maligator]

Thanks. If I take them, they're staying here - I can't be sure anyone will give them the proper care but I KNOW I will.

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Lots of people are under the impression that every snake needs food about twice a year, and so are likely to take a refusal to eat lightly. That said, it is definitely your place as a herpetoculturist to attempt to remove the animals from her care if the animals are suffering under it. First try convincing her that you and Sheldon can get it to eat if she lets it stay with you a while. Then, whether you do or don't get it eating, after a few weeks ask her if she'd consider letting it stay with you a while more to make sure it's established. Finally, a couple weeks after that, offer her a VERY small amount of money to take both snakes off her hands. Try to convince her that it'd be best for her, since then she wouldn't have to worry about feeding them and caring for them, and she'd have more money for herself or another small pet. Suggest something relatively easy like a rat or a hamster. Finally, send one to me

Ball pythons need special lighting? I was under the impression they were nocturnal and stayed in burrows during the day.

 

[airenlow]

Just remember, you can't save every snake out there. I have to tell myself this every time I go to the pet store...

 

[starsevol]

Lots of people are under the impression that every snake needs food about twice a year, and so are likely to take a refusal to eat lightly. That said, it is definitely your place as a herpetoculturist to attempt to remove the animals from her care if the animals are suffering under it. First try convincing her that you and Sheldon can get it to eat if she lets it stay with you a while. Then, whether you do or don't get it eating, after a few weeks ask her if she'd consider letting it stay with you a while more to make sure it's established. Finally, a couple weeks after that, offer her a VERY small amount of money to take both snakes off her hands. Try to convince her that it'd be best for her, since then she wouldn't have to worry about feeding them and caring for them, and she'd have more money for herself or another small pet. Suggest something relatively easy like a rat or a hamster. Finally, send one to me

Ball pythons need special lighting? I was under the impression they were nocturnal and stayed in burrows during the day.

Not a rat...they take ALOT of care, time AND money. No reason an intelligent animal should suffer under her care as well....

 

[Lucille]

Thanks. If I take them, they're staying here - I can't be sure anyone will give them the proper care but I KNOW I will.

You can't make the world perfect. But with a little encouragement and education, you can turn the world around for these two little guys.

Lots of girls become pregnant without knowing the first thing about parenting. Acquiring something doesn't mean one knows how to take care of it. Whether a child or a critter, many people start in ignorance.

But it isn't as if you walked into her home and found the snakes in deplorable conditions. She has already taken the first, and by far the largest, step in providing a good home in her home, for these guys- she approached you on her own.

I think rescuing critters has its place. But not here. She wants to be a better keeper, and if she is, the hobby will grow by at least one more person- maybe more, because she may decide someday to 'pay it forward' by teaching another.

You know so much, give of yourself. Invite her here. Have confidence, that you can teach. It won't happen overnight, but when it does, you will justifiably be proud of your efforts, the 'new' herper, and the two little guys that are smiling because of you.

 

[Maligator]

Ball pythons need special lighting? I was under the impression they were nocturnal and stayed in burrows during the day.

By lighting, I meant heating. She said that her room is fairly warm and there is 'something' that heats the tank..

Just remember, you can't save every snake out there. I have to tell myself this every time I go to the pet store...

I tell myself this - and often... but if I can do something for these guys, I just have to. Hearing one of them died prematurely is going to upset me more than an extra mouth to feed.

Not a rat...they take ALOT of care, time AND money. No reason an intelligent animal should suffer under her care as well....

I'm with you. I'll suggest a pet rock at most, but no more live critters for her.

 

[wade]

I think Lucille nailed it. I think we are getting the cart before the horse. From what you have said we don’t know if this girl even wants to give up the snakes. She is concerned that they are not eating. I think some education is in order, but not necessarily a rescue.

I’d work with the girl and get her habitats up to snuff. Get her temperatures right and her hides. Make sure the snakes are otherwise healthy and have what they need. Help her understand the requirements of the snakes and help her learn to do it herself. I don’t think you should even take the snakes to get them feeding. Get her set up right and help her get them feeding.

Don’t forget the Ball Pythons are different than corns. Many WC Balls never eat in captivity. I’d suggest you read up on them a little and then tell this girl straight up the truth. We may or may not be successful here.

 

[starsevol]

I had ball pythons years ago, and one of my males would go off feed every single winter for 4-5 months! Never lost weight and was fine......

 

[Lennycorn]

I agree.

I would follow Lucille sugestions.

Work with this girl.

 

[Maligator]

The problem I'm having with working with her is that she isn't following any suggestions I'm giving her. The snake hasn't eaten since the weekend before Thanksgiving when she got him. I'm a bit more at ease knowing that it isn't uncommon for them to go on long hunger strikes. However, she has had the care sheet I printed off for her for the last three weeks and told me today at work that she hasn't had time to get the right substrate or try anything other than dropping the live mouse in the tank.

She seems like she likes them - very much. She talks about them cruising their tanks and how the feeding one she handles is very sweet. I'm hoping pointing her in the right direction by taking her to the pet store Sunday will spur her into actually doing something instead of just wanting to. I've offered to come over to give a hand and she's avoided it, and I didn't want to push.

Reading through the suggestions, I realized I jumped the gun a bit. I think I just couldn't imagine someone not doing more to try and properly care for their pet. I'm going to try and help her with the snake and hope for the best. Thank you everyone - your reasonable responses helped so much!

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Not a problem, if I've learned nothing else here it's this... snake people are the most viciously protective of animals there are.

 

[Nova_C]

Not a problem, if I've learned nothing else here it's this... snake people are the most viciously protective of animals there are.

This isn't necessarily true - I think it has more to do with 'misunderstood' owners. That is, snakes have a reputation and some owners are very, well, bad owners and have the snake for the predatory entertainment. This board is extremely protective because of the reputation and stereotypes associated with it. I found the same thing when I had piranhas on a board similar to this for that incredible breed of fish.

That said, the knee-jerk reaction of immediately jumping to 'rescue' likely does more harm than good, especially for the welfare of the snakes in question. Being aggressive and making someone feel defensive is likely to get them to dismiss what you're saying and possible even not seek any help at all elsewhere. Best to attempt to teach when you can and bite your tongue when you must.

 

[wilomn]

You could also send her to www.ball-pythons.net. It is hands down the best ball python site you can find.

They are kind and caring and well informed.

 

[Maligator]

You could also send her to www.ball-pythons.net. It is hands down the best ball python site you can find.

They are kind and caring and well informed.

Thanks! And I had already given her that one - I told her she doesn't have to join the forum necessarily (she was looking a little doubtful) but there were plenty of threads to check out and probably more than a few people that have the same questions she does.

Again, thank you everyone!

 

[tyflier]

She asked for help...offer help. Teach her, don't scold her. Help her. She needs information and assistance, not a rescue and rehabilitation.

Try to remember that my way, your way, and someone else's way might vary quite a bit, but that all 3 can still be quite healthy and acceptable.

You say they are on rodent bedding. What kind of rodent bedding? Aspen? Pine? Care Fresh? Some are fine. Some are not.

You say it is in an "arboreal cage". What are the dimensions? Arboreal cages come in all sizes, and just because a BP won't really use the vertical space doesn't mean it's not ok. Floor space dimensions are more important than cage style.

Just because someone doesn't know that an Under Tank Heater is the proper name for a "heat mat" doesn't mean they can't operate it correctly and at the right temperatures.

Also...consider that it isn't uncommon for ball pythons to go off feed for several motnhs at a time during this time of year. Not uncommon at all. Just because they aren't eating doesn't mean she isn't doing the best that can be done...

I would handle the situation by getting as much and as accurate information about the setup(s) as possible, and helping her to correct problems, and fix issues. She asked for help. That, at least, seems to show a willingness to understand and learn. Instead of being upset with her for buying them without knowledge...help her gain some knowledge...

That's just my opinion...

 

[Feanturi]

Hear, hear! to the voices of reason. I just got a pair of adult F BP's in Sept., as adoptees from my bio teacher. 1 ate first at about Mid December, the other the 2nd of January. Both are doing fine, lost little weight and seem to be done settling in. And eating quite readily now! New cages, substrates, being separated after living in the same cage and a whole new environment probably all factored in along with the season. It was unnerving at times, frustrating, and a great educational experience. If she's asking advice, she cares. Each learns in his/her own time, and with your help she'll probably come around. And snakes as well as other animals may just be more resilient than we give them credit for.

Be patient, and help her to become a good Reptile Keeper. And you'll likely learn even more.....

 

[bekers71]

Ask her if you could come over to her house and help her with the set up. Go and offer suggestions and advice. When advice is made more friendly and personal its better received and understood. Maybe the info you are giving her is just too much for her to remember by the time she gets home. Take a few small things with you like a small bag of aspen, some moss to make a wet hide and a small tote. Some times showing is better than telling. I've done this before for some one and made the occasional visit to see if she needed any thing. The BP started growing and shedding properly and the owner was so happy. It may work for you too.