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Killing Snakes
- Thread starter WAS1
- Start date
Hi there. That's rotten news and a miserable decision to have to make - my sympathies.
I think freezing can take a little time - it certainly isn't an instant form of death, which is really what you need if you want to be kind. Could you not take it to a vet? An overdose of anaesthetic gas would be gentle.
I think freezing can take a little time - it certainly isn't an instant form of death, which is really what you need if you want to be kind. Could you not take it to a vet? An overdose of anaesthetic gas would be gentle.
Sparda
Addicted to Corns
Actually, from what I understand. (told to me from a couple of big breeders) they do put any snakes that need to be put down in the freezer. From what I was told they just go to sleep, kind of like they are hibernating, but they don't wake up. It is not supposed to be painful in any way. Think about it, some of these big breeders have thousands of snakes each year, if they took every snake that needed to be put down for any reason to the vet they would not make any money, and they do this for a living. This is just my 2 cents.
To be honest Sparda, that means that with all good intentions, they're looking for the cheapest method of euthanasia, not necessarily the most humane. I've heard some opinions that say reptiles can be conscious through the freezing process, as ice crystals form in their bodies etc. That was enough to put me off completely.
If you think about it, putting a snake in a freezer isn't the same as them going into brumation; that process takes weeks as their body and metabolism gradually slow down in preparation for a long period without food. Freezing is a much faster process, but still might take minutes/hours.
If there's no other option, then bopping the poor thing over the head with a heavy object would be a lot more humane. One swift, clean blow and that's that (although I still wouldn't do it myself).
surfrkidTS
New member
i still have to agree with Kel. A good whap in the head is super fast as long as its really heavy and you don't miss. If you can't do that, then i guess you could try drugs but you would have to ask a veternarian
Susan
Go Ahead, Make My Day!
I'm a veterinary technician and have been euthanizing many species of animals for over 20 years. I put my sick hatchlings in the freezer. Trying to over-dose a herp with gas anesthetic isn't very easy (had a veiled chameleon who broke both front legs in a cave-in of her sand nest while laying eggs...she was under full gas for over an hour while I cut out the unlaid eggs...and still had to be euthanized by another way...and I had to pay $70 for the anesthetic gas/time). "Whacking" isn't instant either, even if you DON'T miss...how many run-over herps do you see on the road that are still alive? LOTS! Cutting the head off isn't an option either...same results as "whacking". Using an injectable euthanasia solution works great on larger herps, but isn't really feasible on a hatchling corn...even the smallest needle will seem like a harpoon...and try to find a vein...have to go for the brain instead...not pleasant for the herp. Freezing seems the most humane for a hatchling.
Sorry to hear about the snake. These things happen. 
Putting the snake in the refrigerator (rather than the freezer) and leaving him there overnight should kill him without the ice crystal problem. It worked that way once when I was trying to brumate a milk snake and did not properly harden the milk to such cold temperatures.
Putting the snake in the refrigerator (rather than the freezer) and leaving him there overnight should kill him without the ice crystal problem. It worked that way once when I was trying to brumate a milk snake and did not properly harden the milk to such cold temperatures.
moonshadow
Keeper of the Menagerie
don't know if this helps but...
Here's something I once learned in class about frogs that would probably apply to most reptiles. If you drop a frog in a pot of boiling or freezing water it will instantly jump out. BUT if you put the frog in a pot of room temperature water and either turn up the heat or put it in the freezer it won't move at all. It will stay there of its own free will and die. Why? Because they are coldblooded. When the temperature change is gradual they don't notice it as much because their body temperature is slowly changing with their surroundings. They are much better able to detect temperature change when there is a large discrepancy between their body temperature and the temperature of their surroundings. This also explains whey thermal burns are so common. One would think that a reptile would know better and move if they were sitting on something that was too hot, but if they were sitting on something that gradually rose in temperature then they would not notice when it became to hot for them until it was too late. Thus they get burned.
My point is that if you slowly freeze a snake it will not feel any pain because it will go to sleep before it gets to that point. If suddenly thrown into a freezer from its nice warm hide then yes it will definately feel the temp drop and be unhappy. But if you do this slowly enough then it won't notice the temp drop much and it's metabolism will slow enough that it will basically go to sleep before it dies. No whacking needed.
Sorry for rambling.
Here's something I once learned in class about frogs that would probably apply to most reptiles. If you drop a frog in a pot of boiling or freezing water it will instantly jump out. BUT if you put the frog in a pot of room temperature water and either turn up the heat or put it in the freezer it won't move at all. It will stay there of its own free will and die. Why? Because they are coldblooded. When the temperature change is gradual they don't notice it as much because their body temperature is slowly changing with their surroundings. They are much better able to detect temperature change when there is a large discrepancy between their body temperature and the temperature of their surroundings. This also explains whey thermal burns are so common. One would think that a reptile would know better and move if they were sitting on something that was too hot, but if they were sitting on something that gradually rose in temperature then they would not notice when it became to hot for them until it was too late. Thus they get burned.
My point is that if you slowly freeze a snake it will not feel any pain because it will go to sleep before it gets to that point. If suddenly thrown into a freezer from its nice warm hide then yes it will definately feel the temp drop and be unhappy. But if you do this slowly enough then it won't notice the temp drop much and it's metabolism will slow enough that it will basically go to sleep before it dies. No whacking needed.
Sorry for rambling.
vanderkm
New member
As has been indicated, overdose of anaesthetic gas is difficult and prolonged in reptiles because of their metabolism. Injectable euthanasia is difficult in the little ones (and even in larger ones) because of how hard it is to inject into a vein or the heart. It can always be accomplished by injecting directly into the body cavity, but does take time to produce unconsciousness that way and some would argue that the trauma of being handled, manipulated and injected contributes to an inhumane death. It remains the most accepted humane method if performed by an experienced veterinarian, but barbiturate drugs are restricted and not available to unlicensed individuals.
Most breeders use freezing and it is considered 'acceptable' but this is debated by veterinarians and groups responsible for animal care criteria because it is not possible to be sure that the animal becomes unconscious rapidly and so does not suffer before death takes place. Brain activity consistent with consciousness can be taking place in animals during the freezing process. They are cold blooded, but what that means is that they seek to regulate their body temperature to what is ideal (mid 80s) by finding the right environment - when they experience cold, they seek warmth - so one could argue that being put at feezing temperatures causes suffering. It does mean that you don't have to use a hand's on approach and you don't have to see the animal die - guess for some people that makes it easier.
Decapitation also is not confirmed to be a humane or painless death because of the capacity of the brain of cold blooded animals to register activity even when separated from blood supply.
As brutal as it may appear, the suggestions of severe trauma to the head, effectively destroying the brain, are the most humane. This has been confirmed by various councils on animal care that indicate the approved methods of euthanasia for research institutions. It is critical that the method chosen results in complete and rapid destruction of the entire brain (mostly the cortical areas), so it has to be done with care and precision - not just smashing the animal's head and hoping that you get the right area.
We euthanize reptiles by using a pair of pliers to crush the skull just behind the eyes, by squeezing the head in the vice end. Select pliers with a flat, wide grip to insure even and rapid pressure. The crushing tyically results in massive firing of many nerves at once and there is reflex movement of the body (contractions and twitching) for a few minutes. The brain tissue will sometimes be forced out the nostrils, which is messy and makes the method difficult for some people to perform. Despite the fact that it may seem brutal, it is, in fact, humane (rapid unconsciousness and rapid death). There is no doubt that the brain is destroyed quickly.
best of luck making a decision for your little one - something all keepers must face at some point,
mary v.
Most breeders use freezing and it is considered 'acceptable' but this is debated by veterinarians and groups responsible for animal care criteria because it is not possible to be sure that the animal becomes unconscious rapidly and so does not suffer before death takes place. Brain activity consistent with consciousness can be taking place in animals during the freezing process. They are cold blooded, but what that means is that they seek to regulate their body temperature to what is ideal (mid 80s) by finding the right environment - when they experience cold, they seek warmth - so one could argue that being put at feezing temperatures causes suffering. It does mean that you don't have to use a hand's on approach and you don't have to see the animal die - guess for some people that makes it easier.
Decapitation also is not confirmed to be a humane or painless death because of the capacity of the brain of cold blooded animals to register activity even when separated from blood supply.
As brutal as it may appear, the suggestions of severe trauma to the head, effectively destroying the brain, are the most humane. This has been confirmed by various councils on animal care that indicate the approved methods of euthanasia for research institutions. It is critical that the method chosen results in complete and rapid destruction of the entire brain (mostly the cortical areas), so it has to be done with care and precision - not just smashing the animal's head and hoping that you get the right area.
We euthanize reptiles by using a pair of pliers to crush the skull just behind the eyes, by squeezing the head in the vice end. Select pliers with a flat, wide grip to insure even and rapid pressure. The crushing tyically results in massive firing of many nerves at once and there is reflex movement of the body (contractions and twitching) for a few minutes. The brain tissue will sometimes be forced out the nostrils, which is messy and makes the method difficult for some people to perform. Despite the fact that it may seem brutal, it is, in fact, humane (rapid unconsciousness and rapid death). There is no doubt that the brain is destroyed quickly.
best of luck making a decision for your little one - something all keepers must face at some point,
mary v.
Jicin
Corn love
I agree with vanderkm about the smasking head thing. YOU might not like it, but it's the snake that has to suffer from your ickiness. In other words, do what's best for the snake. Not how you can keep your hands clean.
I still wonder why everone has to jump in and provide killing methodes, but noone asks the question if it's really nessasary. Perhaps he just has a slow start.
I still wonder why everone has to jump in and provide killing methodes, but noone asks the question if it's really nessasary. Perhaps he just has a slow start.
Skye
New member
I have to agree with many of the points Mary makes.
It is never an easy decision. Probably the best method with larger ones is an injection of Sodium pentobarbital. Barbiturates other than this one can cause pain on injection. This would. however, need to be performed by a vet.
Freezing is not recommended by the American veterinary medical association. They state:
".....killed by ... freezing. This method is not recommended. Formation of ice crystals on the skin and in the tissues of an animal may cause pain or distress."
Skye
It is never an easy decision. Probably the best method with larger ones is an injection of Sodium pentobarbital. Barbiturates other than this one can cause pain on injection. This would. however, need to be performed by a vet.
Freezing is not recommended by the American veterinary medical association. They state:
".....killed by ... freezing. This method is not recommended. Formation of ice crystals on the skin and in the tissues of an animal may cause pain or distress."
Skye
Missy
loves her little darlings
im sorry but i had to have a say in this
one of my hatchlings too was a slow starter and it too couldnt shed, i took her to the vets who actually shed her for her, shes fighting fit now, she had to be force fed for quite a few months but shes now stronger than ever, and she sheds on her own too. i have to agree with Jicin here, why do you have to end this little corns life.
one of my hatchlings too was a slow starter and it too couldnt shed, i took her to the vets who actually shed her for her, shes fighting fit now, she had to be force fed for quite a few months but shes now stronger than ever, and she sheds on her own too. i have to agree with Jicin here, why do you have to end this little corns life.