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Motely/Stripe

G

Green Bean

Reptile Chick
Hey all-

Quick question. If i bred a motely/stripe to a motely/stripe would I get motely/stripes, motelys, stripes, or motely and stripes?
 
Depends on how you're useing the term Motley/Stripe...

Are you referring to Moteys with a stripe like pattern, or actually double hets for Motley & Stripe?

Obviously if they're just Mots, you'll have varying degrees of the normal Motley pattern and the stripe like Motley pattern.

Doing het Motley Stripe x het Motley Stripe however would produce Mots, Stripes and het Motley Stripe. Personally I prefer useing the term Motley het Stripe when referring to these guys because they look like Motleys even though they technically are not.
 
OK then I am using the term wrong and was under the impression that a corn could be both the motley and stripe...

...man i am so confused with all of this...
 
Green Bean said:
OK then I am using the term wrong and was under the impression that a corn could be both the motley and stripe...

...man i am so confused with all of this...
Click to expand...

They CAN be both. Motley is recessive to the wild type, and so is stripe. However, when they are both at that locus together, they are codom/dom and produce a non-normal snake. Not all snakes that are carrying both a motley and stripe allele are visually motley, at least not in the dot dot dot sense.

However, if you are talking about a motley with a stripe pattern, then you'd get all motleys from the breeding. If you're talking about a snake that is het for motley and het for stripe, you would get motleys, stripes, and motley/stripes from that pairing.
 
what?

Tula_Montage said:
You wouldn't get stripes because stripe is a completely different pattern mutation to motley or motley/stripe.
Click to expand...



When a stripe and motley or stripe and het motley are paired and you have motley hatchings, they are het stripe.
What people have called motley/stripe for years.
Motley het stripe is better terminology here.
So if you breed a pair of these motley/stripes (motleys het stripe) together you can get motleys, stripes and motley/stripes (motleys het stripe).
as Joe pointed out

I have some motley creams het stripe that came from a stripe cream to cream het motley pairing in 2005. They will be bred next season (2008) and there should be motleys and stripes with the motleys being possibly het stripe or what people would call motley/stripe.

as Joe also pointed out...if they are just motleys with some stripe in the pattern then they will produce motleys with variations in pattern.

9600vol6-med.jpg
 
Is your brain totally fried yet? The terminology can be very confusing in this particular situation. Many of us are trying to standardize it, but it takes awhile.

Case #1

Genetically homozygous motley - These can have several phenotypical types, including the well-loved dot-dot-dot, the Q-tipped and the pin-striped (aka striped motley - my favorite term, but also motley striped, hence the confusion).

This is a typical motley.
Perdita_Dec_06_-_14.jpg


These have some Q-tipping.
Ghost_Motley_-_2.JPG

Karumera_Dec_05.JPG


These are pin-striped or striped motleys.
Female_Mot-Stripe_28_-_post_shed.JPG

Fury_March_06_-_4.JPG


Breeding any of these together will produce genetically homozygous motleys that can show any of, or a combination of these phenotypes.
Case #2

These are genetically different from case #1. These carry one motley gene and one striped gene. Some people call them motley/striped or more so now, motley het stripe. They can be any of the above patterns. In fact, some of my examples are actually motley het stripe, but I won't tell you which. These are also some examples:
Figaro_March_06.JPG

Styx_March_06_-_5.JPG

Fiesta_March_06_-_2.JPG


Breeding these together will result in homozygous motleys, motley het stripes and homozygous stripes.
 
Ok i kinda get it. I was thinking of a pinstriped, motley with a striped pattern. Which can be a motley het stripe. So I do understand that if I have a motley het stripe X motley het stripe I will get motleys, stripes, and motley het stripes.

Whew...yeah my head is about to go boom. lol.
 
sorry to half hijack this, but if you put a visual motley to a visual stripe, the outcome would be motley/stripe in the f1 right? how will these actually look?
 
captaincaveman said:
sorry to half hijack this, but if you put a visual motley to a visual stripe, the outcome would be motley/stripe in the f1 right? how will these actually look?
Click to expand...

You would end up with what will look like a Motley (either with the standard dotted pattern or a stripe variation). Technically they are het for both mutations (Motley & Stripe).
 
blckkat said:
You would end up with what will look like a Motley (either with the standard dotted pattern or a stripe variation). Technically they are het for both mutations (Motley & Stripe).
Click to expand...

Thanks, so would that be elongated motley markings or could you get the pin striping too
 
captaincaveman said:
Thanks, so would that be elongated motley markings or could you get the pin striping too
Click to expand...

Pretty much anything is a possibility. Generally though you will end up with the pin striping.
 
Jimmy Johnson said:
When a stripe and motley ... are paired and you have motley hatchings, they are het stripe.
What people have called motley/stripe for years.
Motley het stripe is better terminology here.
Click to expand...
Motley het stripe gives the impression that the snake has two motley mutant genes at one locus and a striped mutant gene paired with a normal gene at a second locus. Compare to "amelanistic het stripe".

In my opinion, het motley/stripe is much better terminology.
 
paulh said:
Motley het stripe gives the impression that the snake has two motley mutant genes at one locus and a striped mutant gene paired with a normal gene at a second locus. Compare to "amelanistic het stripe". In my opinion, het motley/stripe is much better terminology.
Click to expand...

The reason why I disagree is because it doesn't look like a normal. Useing het Motley/Stripe adds confusion when, those who don't understand basic genetics, look at the snake and it looks like a Motley.
 
blckkat said:
The reason why I disagree is because it doesn't look like a normal. Useing het Motley/Stripe adds confusion when, those who don't understand basic genetics, look at the snake and it looks like a Motley.
Click to expand...
Perhaps labeling it motley followed by the genotype in serpwidgets' genetic symbolism would work best. Those who don't care would see it as a motley. Those with a reasonable grasp of genetics would either understand it or inquire. But, in my opinion, dumbing it down to inaccuracy is not a good solution.
 
paulh said:
Perhaps labeling it motley followed by the genotype in serpwidgets' genetic symbolism would work best. Those who don't care would see it as a motley. Those with a reasonable grasp of genetics would either understand it or inquire. But, in my opinion, dumbing it down to inaccuracy is not a good solution.
Click to expand...
But then it has been talked about on here that others use different genetic symbols to the morph guide so that would be inaccurate also. Personally i'll stick with the het stripe as it gets the point across that when bred, classic 4 lined stripes will be produced.....
 
Both "het motley stripe" and "motley het stripe" are fine if you have a firm grasp of the genetics. If you don't, then I think that both terms can be problematic. The snakes we're discussing are phenotypical motleys that are het for stripe. Calling them "motley het stripe" isn't inaccurate, or "dumbed down". Equally accurate is that they're het for motley and stripe. Calling something "het morphX", without specifying phenotype, implies that that the snake is a normal. Calling something "morphX het blank" implies that the snake is homozygous for "morphX". Again, this is not a problem for those who are comfortable with corn genetics. But if you're labeling snakes for novices and experts, which problematic implication is the lesser of the two evils?

I prefer "motley het stripe" because I like the phenotype to be listed. I even like it listed when the snake is a normal. :)
 
Too bad some people have not adopted Serpwidgets' symbolism. I haven't seen anything proposed that I like better other than a straight adoption of the mouse rules of genetic nomenclature. Which is very close to what Serpwidgets uses.

So there is no really good solution.

I guess I will just go with
Phenotype: motley
Mutant Genotype: one heterozygous locus, motley mutant gene paired with striped mutant gene.

That's too wordy, but it's accurate.
 
paulh said:
Too bad some people have not adopted Serpwidgets' symbolism. I haven't seen anything proposed that I like better other than a straight adoption of the mouse rules of genetic nomenclature. Which is very close to what Serpwidgets uses.
Click to expand...

No one has to follow what one person does or creates. I don't care for all of the symbolism he made up, so I use my own when it suits.

Keep in mind using symbolism in reference to labeling animals won't help those who don't know anything about it. As far as the average person is concerned, a Motley is a Motley and they don't care about the Genotype. :shrugs:
 
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