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My Corn Is "Potty Trained"

1. "It's wrong to handle your snakes frequently."- Snakes by nature, don't like humans, and in captivity they tolerate us at best. I am a hobbyist, but I do this full time as well. Snakes don't enjoy our company. Handling them stresses them, they do much better if not bothered. Does handling once a week hurt them? No. But daily handling will stress the animal.

I'm calling BS on this. My first snake I held nearly every day (except for 3 days a week for feeding) for 10-15min periods. She never refused a meal, shed without problems, and grew like a weed! She quickly became accustomed to being handled with no negative impact on her growth or behavior.

Sure some snakes may not do well being handled, I've seen and owned my share of those. But don't sit there and try to say all snakes should be ignored because it's healthier for them. Because it simply isn't a rule of thumb truth.

The most spastic snake I ever owned was an MBK. She was terrified of being held and would musk, rattle, and flail whenever taken out. We only handled her to take her out for feeding and cleaning and even just that small amount of interaction started to change her behavior. There was a definite improvement in her acceptance of us after several months of simply feeding/cleaning where holding her became less stressful.

I really think you have to build a basis of trust with your snakes in order for them to tolerate being handled without it being a stressful experience. Associating your hands as something that doesn't hurt them goes a long way. They may not be as smart as cats, but they're not stupid and they can adapt quite well to repetition.
 
I'm calling BS on this. My first snake I held nearly every day (except for 3 days a week for feeding) for 10-15min periods. She never refused a meal, shed without problems, and grew like a weed! She quickly became accustomed to being handled with no negative impact on her growth or behavior.

Sure some snakes may not do well being handled, I've seen and owned my share of those. But don't sit there and try to say all snakes should be ignored because it's healthier for them. Because it simply isn't a rule of thumb truth.

The most spastic snake I ever owned was an MBK. She was terrified of being held and would musk, rattle, and flail whenever taken out. We only handled her to take her out for feeding and cleaning and even just that small amount of interaction started to change her behavior. There was a definite improvement in her acceptance of us after several months of simply feeding/cleaning where holding her became less stressful.

I really think you have to build a basis of trust with your snakes in order for them to tolerate being handled without it being a stressful experience. Associating your hands as something that doesn't hurt them goes a long way. They may not be as smart as cats, but they're not stupid and they can adapt quite well to repetition.

So that one baby snake represents the general population? Look, i have been doing this 10 years, I work with people who have untold amounts of intelligence and experience, I am not making this up. I know my animals, and I know that I don't handle them very often, and they all do fine. Most snakes don't like being handled, they tolerate it, but they would rather not have to deal with it. And they will do better without excessive handling. Once a week is fine, but everyday is upsetting to the snake and can cause issues.
 
No, that one baby snake isn't the whole population. I have other snakes that are the same way, too. None of my snakes get stressed being held, because I've taken the time and effort to building trust. They don't have to stress because they don't have to fear me.

Sounds to me that your busy schedule prevents you from working hands on with your animals. If that's the case and you hardly touch them no wonder they get stressed out when you actually do handle them. :rolleyes:
 
No, that one baby snake isn't the whole population. I have other snakes that are the same way, too. None of my snakes get stressed being held, because I've taken the time and effort to building trust. They don't have to stress because they don't have to fear me.

Sounds to me that your busy schedule prevents you from working hands on with your animals. If that's the case and you hardly touch them no wonder they get stressed out when you actually do handle them. :rolleyes:

Ok, my busy schedule has nothing to do with it. I choose not to handle my snakes, and when I do handle them they tolerate it and don't flip out at all. Sounds to me like you assume I don't have time to handle my animals, in order to make me sound like a bad keeper. You have it wrong my friend, I have more then enough time for my animals. I choose not to handle them. They never stress when I handle them, they eat fine, shed fine, and grow fine. I don't see where you go your information....
 
David, you have said your piece. Let it be. You are starting to remind me of yourself when I first became a member here. There is no point in continuing your arguments. We all know that you think it is ridiculous. I agree with you on a couple of points, but not all of them, or the way you deliver them.
 
David, you have said your piece. Let it be. You are starting to remind me of yourself when I first became a member here. There is no point in continuing your arguments. We all know that you think it is ridiculous. I agree with you on a couple of points, but not all of them, or the way you deliver them.
I'm kind of sorry I open this thread but I agree with Aaron.

Let it be known that I only handle my snow stripes once or so as week and they are still stress from handling so to me, it depends on the snake.

But over all I don't think the Op has the snake ""potty train"".

I think the snake has him trained. Ha!!
 
When I read about the "diapers" I saw it as just having towels loosely layered under the snake, with the snake burrowing into it a bit. I'll admit if the towels were tightened around the snake in any way that would be a bit too much, but I don't think that's what she did.

Snakes that are accustomed to being handled and have no fear are not usually stressed from handling, provided they are handled properly. If you're not supporting them or restricting their ability to move, that's stressful. But taking a snake out and allowing it to crawl around and explore you and the area around it, with gentle guidance... for snakes that are accustomed to that it is not going to be a stressful experience just because it's a snake.

So that one baby snake represents the general population? Look, i have been doing this 10 years, I work with people who have untold amounts of intelligence and experience, I am not making this up. I know my animals, and I know that I don't handle them very often, and they all do fine. Most snakes don't like being handled, they tolerate it, but they would rather not have to deal with it. And they will do better without excessive handling. Once a week is fine, but everyday is upsetting to the snake and can cause issues.

I can appreciate your opinion, and I agree with it in part, but please don't just dismiss mine or anyone else's because you've had so many snakes for however long you've had them. A lot of people on here have been working with snakes for many, many years as well. And just because I don't have racks of them at the moment does not mean my opinions are any less credible.

All in all, it can be rather cyclical. Part of it depends on the snake as an individual and a lot of it depends on how the snake has interacted with people in the past. Snakes do not feel emotions like we do, but they do have psychological responses to interactions with humans and their environment. If they are physically in perfect health and are experiencing no discomfort and all of their physical needs are met, emotional stress is most often caused by fear, or more accurately the instinctual reaction to want to maximize it's chances of staying alive. Stress can also be caused by territorial aggression and a plethora of other things, but I believe that fear is the biggest one.

When we take our snakes out, we do expose them to the world which does very much indeed expose them to various different stressful situations that they would not experience safe in their tank. But if they learn from that exposure that the environment is safe and free of anything that threatens them, then they become accustomed to it and stop reacting to something they know is not a threat.

I mentioned before that I do have snakes that do not seem to enjoy coming out. I have worked with them before, and they do tame down very well. Just one or two of them never seem to truly trust me. Then again, I know nothing about their experiences with people before they came into my possession.

Anyway, I've contributed to getting this waaaay off topic and I apologize. We really should create another thread and continue this discussion. Please note that all of what I state is not based on proven fact, just my opinions. I think it would be interesting to discuss this further - not argue - I'm always open to being proven wrong and learning something new.
 
Look, I don't value my opinion any higher than anyone else's. I have 7 snakes. I work with several hundred snakes a day, but I personally own 7. I am no expert, but I am no an amateur hobbyist either. The fact is snakes don't like being handled and and it stresses them. That's coming from me and several other well respected people in the hobby.
 
Im a biologist, a herpatologist, an ornithologist. I can tell you by many more than 10 years experience, that most of what hes saying is BS. I hate pulling out my credentials as a wildlife biologist but there ya go. I hate posting in these type of threads. But this one is just a bit ridiculous.
 
As an RVT, I have to cry BS too.

Cats are also not predisposed to liking people. Take you a feral cat older than a few months... and honestly good luck and I hope you enjoy your scars. Take you a wild snake older than a few months... and most will acclimate to handling.

Most of my snakes are handled often. You have 7, and may work with hundreds (which mostly means feeding, cleaning, basic inspections) but I have 16, 31 if you count the hatchlings. Of those 16, I have 2 that outright dislike being handled, and so are mostly left alone. One is a little flighty at first. That leaves 13 corns that have no issues with handling at all, and travel about my person in a calm but alert fashion. And one of those is 'sociable' in that she has NEVER flailed, rattled, musked or struck, even from right out of the egg.
 
Im a biologist, a herpatologist, an ornithologist. I can tell you by many more than 10 years experience, that most of what hes saying is BS. I hate pulling out my credentials as a wildlife biologist but there ya go. I hate posting in these type of threads. But this one is just a bit ridiculous.
Ok, congratulations! You have credentials, that's wonderful. I can just tell you from my experience and people who have been in the field over 25 years will agree with me.
As an RVT, I have to cry BS too.

Cats are also not predisposed to liking people. Take you a feral cat older than a few months... and honestly good luck and I hope you enjoy your scars. Take you a wild snake older than a few months... and most will acclimate to handling.

Most of my snakes are handled often. You have 7, and may work with hundreds (which mostly means feeding, cleaning, basic inspections) but I have 16, 31 if you count the hatchlings. Of those 16, I have 2 that outright dislike being handled, and so are mostly left alone. One is a little flighty at first. That leaves 13 corns that have no issues with handling at all, and travel about my person in a calm but alert fashion. And one of those is 'sociable' in that she has NEVER flailed, rattled, musked or struck, even from right out of the egg.

So your 31 snakes represent how many species? I can tell you Yellow Anacondas of Bolivian descendants are much more aggressive than any other local of Yellow Anaconda. I work with a diversity of species, sure cornsnakes may tolerate handling pretty well but many species won't. I am talking snakes in general.
 
David, just because you have spent the past year scooping poop for a flipper does not make you the be all and end all of snake keeping.....
 
David, just because you have spent the past year scooping poop for a flipper does not make you the be all and end all of snake keeping.....

Never said that Beth, all I said was I have experience, and access to a huge amount of experience and knowledge. Shoot me a PM and I can tell you the truth about flippers. Also, we are producing some of the most cutting edge Ball Python and Rainbow Boa morphs....
 
Never said that Beth, all I said was I have experience, and access to a huge amount of experience and knowledge. Shoot me a PM and I can tell you the truth about flippers. Also, we are producing some of the most cutting edge Ball Python and Rainbow Boa morphs....

I know all I need to know about flippers. And like it or not, a 30 year old college educated orinthithologist, biologist and herpetoligist currently earning a living doing field work right now has it all over some 17 year old kid scooping poop for a flipper. That's life.
 
I know all I need to know about flippers. And like it or not, a 30 year old college educated orinthithologist, biologist and herpetoligist currently earning a living doing field work right now has it all over some 17 year old kid scooping poop for a flipper. That's life.

Oh I agree, she has more experience than I do. I don't doubt it. All I am saying is I work with a multitude of species. I am able to care for them daily, I get to know species. And I am willing to bet if I ask a professor of herpetology, they will say snakes don't enjoy handing and it stresses them....
 
You can't just say "snakes in general". It's like saying that dogs are vicious. I could say 'snakes are picky feeders' or 'snakes are really calm'.

You are on a corn snake forum on a thread about corn snakes, and you're telling this person that her snake is horribly stressed out by handling... When the majority of corns do fine with handling.

And as to the moisture loss... way to make a mountain out of a molehill. Snakes are capable of doing this thing known as "drinking" and they do this to a substance called "water". "Water" is routinely provided in their viv/tub/bin/cage/whathaveyou for them to partake of, ad lib.
 
Oh I agree, she has more experience than I do. I don't doubt it. All I am saying is I work with a multitude of species. I am able to care for them daily, I get to know species. And I am willing to bet if I ask a professor of herpetology, they will say snakes don't enjoy handing and it stresses them....

Right now she is working IN THE FIELD. You know, like studying animals in a natural environment? And believe it or not, in nature there are quite a few species too!! Species that she gets to observe, and you know...study.. in their natural surroundings!!!
 
You can't just say "snakes in general". It's like saying that dogs are vicious. I could say 'snakes are picky feeders' or 'snakes are really calm'.

You are on a corn snake forum on a thread about corn snakes, and you're telling this person that her snake is horribly stressed out by handling... When the majority of corns do fine with handling.

And as to the moisture loss... way to make a mountain out of a molehill. Snakes are capable of doing this thing known as "drinking" and they do this to a substance called "water". "Water" is routinely provided in their viv/tub/bin/cage/whathaveyou for them to partake of, ad lib.

O...M....G....you just rocked my world!!
 
I know all I need to know about flippers. And like it or not, a 30 year old college educated orinthithologist, biologist and herpetoligist currently earning a living doing field work right now has it all over some 17 year old kid scooping poop for a flipper. That's life.

I wouldn't touch the animals from the people he works for with a 10-foot-pole. I don't care how "cutting edge" they are. I'd rather get my snakes from people I can trust.

Any information about your schedule/collection I got from your posts, son.
...I work 3 jobs, and get up everyday at 7 and work until 6 or later, 6 days a week.

I'd also like to add that this is a CORN SNAKE forum, this thread is discussing CORN SNAKES. If you want to talk about "other species" then go somewhere else to talk about them.

EDIT: Awesome post Shiari!!
 
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