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New Eyelash Viper!! DUW...

The canebrake in my area have the same pattern as the MN ones there are two basic color phases Black or melenistic and the banded or normal
 
WOW!! That lutosus is just GORGEOUS!! The ones we have in the county north of me are really light, with super bold markings, but not NEAR as light as that one. Simply beautiful!
 
tricksterpup said:
:-offtopic
If i had my way, i would love to have a Crotalus horridus the MN morph of the Timber Rattler.
These guys are protected though but a buddy of mine has some. He is one of the few people i know of that has these legally.

Here is one of his snakes.
DSC00030-1.jpg
Click to expand...

Jim, when i came across that timber rattler a few years back it was a lot darker in color and seemed to have some shades of dark green?
(if i remembered correctly.. i was pretty excited at the time, first live wild snake i had ever seen.) do timber's up here tend to vary in color?
 
mynamesrick said:
Jim, when i came across that timber rattler a few years back it was a lot darker in color and seemed to have some shades of dark green?
(if i remembered correctly.. i was pretty excited at the time, first live wild snake i had ever seen.) do timber's up here tend to vary in color?
Click to expand...

you know from the people I have talked to and the ones I have seen they are the yellow but doesnt mean the we do not have the dark phase. A few of the old timers such as Jim Gerholdt and a few others told me one time that ours were different in coloration. But again,I could have misinterpreted. It doesnt mean they both are not here in this state and maybe the yellows are more common. I just do not know. Hey, i never stated I was a rattle snake expert. ;) I stay away from the hots.
 
Just to throw this in there
Timber have a huge variation some call the ones in the south Canebrakes and in the north timber. The variation is very interesting
 
In some of the books, Canebrakes are listed as a subspecies of the Timber and not the same animal. They look different to me. Markings a little different and the Timber I've seen have been darker in color. Other books list them as the same animal.
 
Meg. from my understanding the timeber and canebreak can be grouped or separated it depends greatly on the taxonimist.
 
The thing about timber and some other snakes like this is that there is a taxonomy debate. Many animals have this due to simple color differences. The king rat snakes have had a similar thing happen. In the eastern Portion of their range the king rat keeps its baby pattern as an adult and they are now considered to be a SSP of Elaphe Carinata. The new name is the eastern Keeled Snake (I want one but they are quite rare CB). In Crotalus Horridus the darker phase is considered sometimes as Canebrake but from a friend of mine who has a large collection of hots he claims that canebrakes have definite behavior difference. The behavior he says is that canebrakes have tendency to be a more aggressive snake. He has both canebrakes and timbers. Many snakes have a behavior difference due to range. It amazes me the taxonomy debates. I am a separator I think that snakes need to be separated because it allows for more room in the hobby. I mean when I do get into hots I would like to have both timber and canebrakes. Even though I am not an expert by any means my big thing is rat snakes. I know a heck of a lot about rat sanke taxonomy. I think that the king rat is not a rat snake but more along the lines af a bull snake/ indigo, cribo animal. They are a fast moving animal. Have an enlarged rostal scale that has been proven to be for burrowing. Also the scales are keeled very sharply not like that of a Taiwan which has a low keel and it is only on the snakes back not the sides. King Rats also have a diet that is more like a cribo or indigo. They feed on anything there are reports of carinata taking mice, rats, snakes, lizards, large invertebrates, birds, fish, amphibians, and even turtles! They simply don’t scream Rat Snake. Also the eye shape is different it is a teardrop shape. Also the enlarged scales above the eyes are a burrowing aid it helps the when they burrow. And the head scales are different all together they are large and thick according to most experts. If you look at a bullsnake the head shape is bullsnake like, large and powerful. They also are not constrictors and tend to pin the prey or have even been observed crushing prey against the ground to kill it. Sorry for the rant but Taxonomy fascinates me!
 
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